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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    West Texas
    Posts
    754
    On #2, I think glass with a top end around 10x would be a much better option for your Recce (I currently run a 3-9x) and the 1-5x a good option for your pistol. Have you considered a spotting scope for target ID? That would alleviate putting a 2+ lbs scope on your otherwise lightweight rifle but give you even greater mag for identifying targets and spotting rounds (hits and misses).

    On #3, the offset RMR would be awesome but is obviously a bit pricey. I run offset iron sights on my Recce that give me the same option, but at a fraction of the price. Just a thought.
    "So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people." - Tecumseh

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Nearly Free State of Arizona
    Posts
    357
    Shootb....

    I have been thinking about a spotting scope. I'm going to hit up Kamp to talk to the Leupold folks about supplying one for me during the GS courses. Then, I'll buy it from them :) (hopefully at a nice discount).

    I was unsure of the offset RMR initially. I run an RMR above my ACOG on my patrol rifle. It is a little bit awkward and has a stupid height above bore, but I was able to employ it well at last year's carbine course. I put an RMR (dual illuminated) on MCSO's rifle (the Mk4 used to be mine) and then gave the whole package over to MCSO going forward. He was able to prove out the concept. My only change would be that we need to go with a battery powered RMR. This will give a better experience. One nice thing is that the Mk4 and the RMR use the same battery. If I do the same on my personal setup, I may go with the Leupold DP Pro. This would allow me to change the battery without removing the optic.

    I do run offset sights on the Recce currently (with the 1-5....it isn't a QD scope mount). I like them but can't get the front sight to stay stable (it wobbles). I'm going to try another front sight and will hopefully find a flaw in the sight and not something with the rail itself.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    West Texas
    Posts
    754
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisNobody View Post
    I do run offset sights on the Recce currently (with the 1-5....it isn't a QD scope mount). I like them but can't get the front sight to stay stable (it wobbles). I'm going to try another front sight and will hopefully find a flaw in the sight and not something with the rail itself.
    My sights are rock solid (they're made by one of the high end flashlight manufacturers).

    As for RMR's, I haven't used any of the dual illum ones, but I prefer the adjustable red dot ones anyways. I think it's just what I'm used to (and if it aint broke, don't fix it). And, like you said, an RMR on top of your optic is way too tall. I prefer the offset setup due to just having to rotate the rifle slightly as opposed to changing your whole shooting position.

    I'm running an old Leupold MK4 3-9 on my recce right now that I bought back in '04. Given the option to use and then buy glass at the GS class, I'm seriously considering picking up something with a little more mag. I would love to get one of their spotting scopes, but that is definitely not in the budget right now. Good thing my buddy up there has one we can use. haha
    "So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people." - Tecumseh

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    136
    Chris, I think the spotting scope is the way to go. I'd keep your Steiner. I was basically making a medium range sniper rifle do the job of a CQB carbine, but what you already have is ideal for that plus the DMR role. We basically just need spotting scopes from Leupold.

    I will say though that Gabe and Jeromy's course does prove the 20" DMR with Leupold and RMR optics is a more than capable CQB weapon. I would not trade this combination for anything. Once again, confidence is high as the concept was proven in the class. That off-set RMR is unbelievable.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    47,927
    All Cooperisms aside, I believe a scope with a low end around 3 or 4 power and a high end around 9-10 is ideal. The whole "one power for every 100 yards" is fine for hunting, or for a CQB rifle pressed out farther, but identification...positive identification of the target is not possible with anything less. And if one really is doing the DMR/SPR/Recce training with a greater degree of focus on short range sniping, the lower powers will not do it for you.

    In CQB you use various index points to hit and its not at all hard to make work.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    47,927
    1058DSCF3823.jpg

    A new article perhaps.

    CQB With a Sniper Rifle

    1). Cheekweld...no need for stock weld.
    2). See around and not through the scope.
    3). Drive it out like an MP5
    4). Use visual Index Points. Top Turret on the 3x10 works great
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Blairsville, GA
    Posts
    1,665
    Great in-depth AARs - enjoyed the read.

    Like others have mentioned, long distance is lacking in my skill sets as well. Something to work on in 2016.
    "The will to win compares little with the will to prepare to win" - Lombardi

    "Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good" - Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

    "I answer to a higher authority than the approval of men not worthy of my time" - Gabe Suarez


    Train with Rick Klopp
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Bio

    CRG-4: Force on Force Gunfighting - April 8-9, 2017 - Albermarle, NC

    Additional classes including AK Rifle Gunfighting, Force on Force and Advanced Trauma Medicine coming soon.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, TX
    Posts
    941
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Klopp View Post
    Great in-depth AARs - enjoyed the read.

    Like others have mentioned, long distance is lacking in my skill sets as well. Something to work on in 2016.
    Building my first recce as I type. This will be the new focus end of this year and next as well.
    "Sometimes A Teacher; Always A Student"

    Retired from teaching for the time being.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Va.
    Posts
    6,684
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    1058DSCF3823.jpg

    A new article perhaps.

    CQB With a Sniper Rifle

    1). Cheekweld...no need for stock weld.
    2). See around and not through the scope.
    3). Drive it out like an MP5
    4). Use visual Index Points. Top Turret on the 3x10 works great
    Will try that soon, thanks.


    CRG-Suarez International Combat Pistol Instructor

    SIG SAUER CERTIFIED ARMORER M400, 516, 716, M4, AR15, M16


  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
    Posts
    1,783
    What are the current opinions about the best applications of a 1-6x or 1-8x optic vs a traditional scope like a 3-10x?

    I'm very interested to hear about the challenges experienced with target ID. I hear a lot of guys all over the Internet talk in terms of "I can make hits out to xxx yards with my red dot" (I'm assuming that usually means torso hits or hits on a steel target) but I rarely hear guys talk about what it takes to consistently make head shots or do any significant target ID at various distances.

    I currently run a red dot on my Recce because it's the only rifle I have, but once I add an AR pistol or SBR I want to put its accuracy potential to good use and stretch its range, so I'm following these conversations with interest as I plan the next optics purchase.

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