Concept Gun - AR Pistol....Rifle

**MTS** · 03-29-2006, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Loudernhel

Did the SAS shoot MP5's this way at one time? Anthony will probably know.

SAS did that along with other SpecOps operators. It was designed to be used when wearing a gas mask as you couldn't shoulder the weapon and see the sights with the mask on.

I was trained in it by an ex-SAS trooper. I was never very good at it. I could do better by using underarm assault.

Since gas masks have been redesigned with larger face pieces this technique is not as common.

***Gabe Suarez*** · 03-29-2006, 07:40 PM

Don't need a foregrip, just grip the frame around the magazine.
Use a CAR 15 "plate" behind the frame and drill it for a Uncle Mike's QD loop. This will give you a good single point attachment point.
And yes, you do need the crutch tip.

**yoni** · 03-29-2006, 08:24 PM

Gabe

what length barrel are you going to build yours in?

Yoni

**Loudernhel** · 03-29-2006, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Swain

SAS did that along with other SpecOps operators. It was designed to be used when wearing a gas mask as you couldn't shoulder the weapon and see the sights with the mask on.

I was trained in it by an ex-SAS trooper. I was never very good at it. I could do better by using underarm assault.

Since gas masks have been redesigned with larger face pieces this technique is not as common.

Ahhhh....

So know we now the origin of that technique. Thanks Mark.

**S-Lee** · 03-29-2006, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Loudernhel

A friend of mine were discussing this very concept the other day.

How about a single point sling, looped over the shoulder. You push the gun forward against the sling. No stock needed.

Did the SAS shoot MP5's this way at one time? Anthony will probably know.

It is easier with an MP5 because of the hood front sight, even with the gas mask, the front sight is not eaily missed. create a triangle with the gun and the sling, bead off the front sight and front sight only, you can make shots in CQB with spped and decent precision.

Phil Singleton, ex-SAS and ex HK ITD director use to teach this method to the HK SMG class.

***Gabe Suarez*** · 03-30-2006, 02:50 AM

Yoni,

I have two AK projects in progress, but I will get after building mine soon afterwards. I think I will stay with the 10.5". I do not have fantasies of 300 yard shots with this thing and will keep it set up for the 100 yard envelope (keeping in mind likelihood of inside 50 yards).
I will go with a flat-top and a small red dot optic...maybe a Trijicon CQB.

The Navarro Special will be an interesting weapon that perhaps will require a DVD showing its capabilities. ;)

**MTS** · 03-30-2006, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by SMGLee

It is easier with an MP5 because of the hood front sight, even with the gas mask, the front sight is not eaily missed. create a triangle with the gun and the sling, bead off the front sight and front sight only, you can make shots in CQB with spped and decent precision.

Phil Singleton, ex-SAS and ex HK ITD director use to teach this method to the HK SMG class.

I should have mentioned that was who taught me.

**Section1_Operations** · 03-30-2006, 08:22 AM

Guys. all this would be great but why not really take advantage of developments and go w/the 6.8 SPC.

From the information that I've read from Dr. Gary Roberts (DocGKR) the 6.8 SPC is a really devastating cartridge even in the shorter 10.5" barrel configurations, which one cannot say in regard to the 5.56 cartridge.

The 6.8 SPC would offer better incapacitation and barrier penetration over all existing 5.56 rounds.

Hell, this would be even better if you used the MGI multi caliber lower receiver. You could use their quick change barrel upper or dedicated uppers, and in any case you could use 5.56 NATO, 5.45, 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel, .50 Beowulf, 9mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP, and 6.8 SPC.

I think I just talked myself into another project

!!!

**Randy Harris** · 03-30-2006, 08:40 AM

The issues with 6.8spc is ammo availability/price and hicap mag availability. That is why I don't have a 6.8 upper for any of my ARs yet.

Having said that,I will probably get one eventually. Actually I'm looking to get the LMT Monoloithic Rail Platform (MRP) upper in which the barrels are "quick change" .Smg Lee tells me LMT will offer a 5.56/6.8 package this year with barrels and bolts for both calibers and I may get that for my unbuilt AAARRRR 15 (very limited production "inside joke" AR lower with Skull and Crossbones logo). BUT the cost of practice ammo will still be 4 to 5x the price what 5.56 is.

Just my opinion, but I think the 75gr TAP or 77gr OTM in the 10.5" barrel (or even 11.5") would do just fine for our purposes.