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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchV View Post
    The 9mm AR uses new Colt-pattern magazines. You can adapt Uzi mags, but that's not a requirement.
    9mm AR mags AND UZI mags are 1950s technology. Its 2015...I want a modern polymer magazine. had they designed this around the Evo magazine and set the price point more reasonable it may be something. As it is, this is another "Red Jacket - Krebs - Fuller" type of special project done one at a time. I know its an AK...and if it was a REAL Vytiaz, it may be worth the $1500+...but this...I just can't get excited about this.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #22
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    ........Leaving the discussion now.

    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    925
    I don't get it? Who would get this when the CZ Scorpian EVO 3A1 makes so much more sense? I'm getting the pistol version of the CZ and 'Thordsen-ing' it.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    105
    CZ EVO and Sig MPX are the clear leaders in the modern PCC arena in my mind (assuming you can't get your hands on an MP5 or reliable MP5 clone).


    LWRCI had a VERY interesting .45 sub gun prototype I saw not long ago on the web.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ws-off-smg-45/

    i don't like the idea of UMP mags ($$$$$$), but like the MPX, it retains a LOT of basic AR ergonomics (charging handle isn't one tho) which is a good thing.

  5. #25
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    May 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilMAC25 View Post
    CZ EVO and Sig MPX are the clear leaders in the modern PCC arena in my mind.....
    They may turn out to be as great as everyone hopes BUT who has one? Who's run one in a class, let alone the real world? I look forward to the new polymer mags for both; but I know the Colt SMG and I know the MP5 and I know the Sterling, as well as a few other "ancient" SMGs. Ive run both the MP5 and Colt SMG in the real world of ugly places and angry faces. I stand by my statement that the Colt is every bit as good as the MP5. Its just my experience and opinion so yours may vary. The MP5 is a great gun, no question, its even better if youre used to running G3s; but as most of us don't run G3s and were weaned on ARs the Colt fills the SMG role with virtually zero transition factor.

    As for the CZ and SIG, I haven't done anything more than handle them at industry shows. Maybe they will be the new SMGs to beat, I wait to be impressed. I had high hopes for the UMP and the Kriss Vector. While the Vector is available, the UMP never really materialized on the civilian market. Then of course there is the P(s)90, is it a PCC, a SMG, or a PDW--does it matter? At least it is (was) available.

    Gabe is of course correct about the Disruptive Arms gun being a "one off". If the concept fails then the owners are left with an orphan design; but is any new design any different? Could we not say the same for the FS2000, a great rifle; but it suddenly disappeared when FN concentrated marketing on other designs.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    3,152
    I don't really see the utility in a pistol caliber carbine or pistol caliber SBR that uses different magazines than my pistol in a universe where there are readily available rounds like the 300 blackout.

    I really want a sub-sonic SBR, and if I could get a 9mm that took Glock mags, or a 10mm that had a quality pistol (sig etc.) that took the same mags I'd buy it. However, I don't see that a quality version of that exists, so if this doesn't change in a year or two it'll be a AR in .300 blackout.

    I'm not saying this is a bad guy, I have no idea. Heck, if I 20M in the bank and was retired it might even be 15th or 20th on my list, but *not* as a primary tool, but rather as a toy.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    105
    Quote Originally Posted by EDELWEISS View Post
    They may turn out to be as great as everyone hopes BUT who has one? Who's run one in a class, let alone the real world? I look forward to the new polymer mags for both; but I know the Colt SMG and I know the MP5 and I know the Sterling, as well as a few other "ancient" SMGs. Ive run both the MP5 and Colt SMG in the real world of ugly places and angry faces. I stand by my statement that the Colt is every bit as good as the MP5. Its just my experience and opinion so yours may vary. The MP5 is a great gun, no question, its even better if youre used to running G3s; but as most of us don't run G3s and were weaned on ARs the Colt fills the SMG role with virtually zero transition factor.

    As for the CZ and SIG, I haven't done anything more than handle them at industry shows. Maybe they will be the new SMGs to beat, I wait to be impressed. I had high hopes for the UMP and the Kriss Vector. While the Vector is available, the UMP never really materialized on the civilian market. Then of course there is the P(s)90, is it a PCC, a SMG, or a PDW--does it matter? At least it is (was) available.

    Gabe is of course correct about the Disruptive Arms gun being a "one off". If the concept fails then the owners are left with an orphan design; but is any new design any different? Could we not say the same for the FS2000, a great rifle; but it suddenly disappeared when FN concentrated marketing on other designs.
    EVO has been real world for a while now. It might not be widespread in US civilian hands though, but it is out there and more imports are coming. Not sure how you can get around the idiotic 922r restrictions (assuming civi, not LEO) to SBR. Price is VERY right though.

    MPX is shipping now (500 went out to major retailers and suppliers). Several in civilians hands (according to AR15.com and other sites).


    im not knocking the Colt, as I've never even handled one... Maybe one time in a gun shop now that I think about it.
    Last edited by lilMAC25; 04-11-2015 at 08:40 AM.

  8. #28
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    Again maaaaaybe they are great but I havent seen anything more than pics and trade show models. SIG shipping 500 is almost embarassing after all the hype we've seen AND a gun that is great "over there" but not importable is well, no good to me here....

    I hop I hope I really do hope they are as good as everyone hopes; but as Im still waiting to be impressed, I'll keep what I have in hand and be ready to buy once they prove themselves HERE!

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