Hounds of war: Let`s see `em!

[Glock45]

Glock 45: Are those pics of Daisy or your dogs? Even bigger than my GSD. He can't quite lay his chin on the counter. Hope you can find Daisy a good home. 2 dogs and a cat are about all we can handle.

Tara: Unusual but beautiful coloring on Taser! I'll try to get some pics up later.

Thats Daisy. I have a black one too, but she has less white.

[barnetmill]

Here is big:

Mastín español / Spanish mastiff.
Crédito : www.mastifid.ee

Here is even bigger. Central Asian Shepherd Dog from Alabai Calisa

[tomcatg]

One of mine..
Deegan Cropped.jpg

[barnetmill]

Here is a real old tyme English bulldog:
Posted by a French man that really knows and respects Bulldogs. He runs a very good strain of American Bulldogs to tend his cattle since the correct French Equivalent does not exist any more.

1852, Great Britain, Goats, cattle, sheep and chickens in front of a farm house, a dog guards the farmyard.
No doubt, this dog is the real old British farm Bulldog (small mastiff), not the city Pit Bulldog (a cross between this farm bulldog & terrier)
We can see as this type still existed in 1852 in the UK.

Another photo from England in the Past with comment: from Heather

another old world real deal farm bulldog in England. .... Thanks Jean! This, folks, is a real deal old world farm bulldog, not some modern mongrelized version bred for extreme prey drive and used to hunt ...the exact opposite of what they're supposed to be. Can you imagine loosing a performance bred bulldog on this farm yard?! It would be a blood bath. This is historically correct and what we are preserving. https://www.facebook.com/groups/OWEPS/

[barnetmill]

A pitbull who loyally stood guard over her unconscious owner after a house fire in Maryland two days ago has been kicked out of the county.
Prince George’s County animal control officers say the dog, named Precious, and her puppy shouldn’t have been living in the house because the county has a pitbull ban on its books.
The officers confiscated the dogs after Wednesday’s overnight fire. But now the dogs have gotten a new leash on life. The pooches were turned over to the owner’s sister who lives in another county where pitbulls aren't banned.
The Washington Post reports that a spokesman for the county fire department snapped a photo of Precious and her injured owner. The photo shows the dog loyally hovering over the woman after she barely escaped the fire and collapsed in her neighbor’s front yard.
Firefighters revived the woman after scaring away Precious with a fire extinguisher, the newspaper reported. The woman is expected to recover.
Flames burned her 65-year-old legally blind father’s face, WUSA-TV reported. He is also expected to recover. http://www.foxnews.com/…/pitbull-gets-kicked-out-county-a…/…

[barnetmill]

Buster Brown and his dog Tige for those of you too young remember was the character to sell a brand of shoes. In later pictures I think the dog was a boxer, this one I believe is pit bull. The next dog looks like they took from spanky and his gang.

[Glock45]

Barnetmill,

Has anybody tried breeding smaller examples of the mastiff breeds in with Bulldogs to try and get their temperment more in line with how they used to be? They'd probably be big and goofy looking, but seems like they'd turn out be a decent dog.

[barnetmill]

Barnetmill,

Has anybody tried breeding smaller examples of the mastiff breeds in with Bulldogs to try and get their temperment more in line with how they used to be? They'd probably be big and goofy looking, but seems like they'd turn out be a decent dog.

There have been many experiments. I am not knowledgeable enough to say too much about it. You should read Heather's and Ray's Websites to get some initial information. Not everything they say is gospel, but they are certainly trying understand and breed Mastiff type dogs with the proper behavior. The big issue is what behavior do you want? Do you want a ban dog, guardian dogs for your children, a catch dog, or maybe even a dog for the chase. Mastiffs have been used in these roles and more. Many were used to pull carts and even in Goergia in the old days larger white english dogs were used for draft purposes.

THE American Bulldogs are examples of various breed mixings by people like Alan Scott and JD Johnston and many other people since then. Mastiff was put into these lines to get bigger dogs. These dogs were not superior in many ways to the white english stock that they started with, but people were happy with them. Some of them were much hotter which many did want. When you buy an American Bulldogs you really need to see the parents and grandparents of the dogs to know what you are buying since there are many separate lines due to the crossbreeding.

The White English group that I belong to "The Old White English Preservation Society" did try to breed down the size of their dogs to say 30-45 lb range, but the behavior was not what they wanted in a family companion guard dog. They just did not have the resources to have success from such a breeding program.

One thing I should clear up is that bulldogs are small mastiffs. The specialized behavior of bulldogs (modern Engish Bulldogs with pug in them not included) is that of a catch dog. Many mastiffs were also bred into smaller bull dog size animals of say 60-85 lbs to be war dogs. Almost gone now from the US. One of their traits was not to have the pit rear end. What are sold as mastiffs today are not what they were 200 years ago in most cases.
I think I may confused you more than helped.

[Glock45]

There have been many experiments. I am not knowledgeable enough to say too much about it. You should read Heather's and Ray's Websites to get some initial information. Not everything they say is gospel, but they are certainly trying understand and breed Mastiff type dogs with the proper behavior. The big issue is what behavior do you want? Do you want a ban dog, guardian dogs for your children, a catch dog, or maybe even a dog for the chase. Mastiffs have been used in these roles and more. Many were used to pull carts and even in Goergia in the old days larger white english dogs were used for draft purposes.

THE American Bulldogs are examples of various breed mixings by people like Alan Scott and JD Johnston and many other people since then. Mastiff was put into these lines to get bigger dogs. These dogs were not superior in many ways to the white english stock that they started with, but people were happy with them. Some of them were much hotter which many did want. When you buy an American Bulldogs you really need to see the parents and grandparents of the dogs to know what you are buying since there are many separate lines due to the crossbreeding.

The White English group that I belong to "The Old White English Preservation Society" did try to breed down the size of their dogs to say 30-45 lb range, but the behavior was not what they wanted in a family companion guard dog. They just did not have the resources to have success from such a breeding program.

One thing I should clear up is that bulldogs are small mastiffs. The specialized behavior of bulldogs (modern Engish Bulldogs with pug in them not included) is that of a catch dog. Many mastiffs were also bred into smaller bull dog size animals of say 60-85 lbs to be war dogs. Almost gone now from the US. One of their traits was not to have the pit rear end. What are sold as mastiffs today are not what they were 200 years ago in most cases.
I think I may confused you more than helped.

Thank you for all the great information. I'll read up on their website. I got thinking about it while watching how my 1 year old Dane moved and ran. She's small for the breed, but she is very quick on her feet and moves more gracefully than larger Danes I've been around. It seems like when people bred for size they lost some of the coordination that made these dogs so impressive. I also think temperment suffered when people lost of the fact that size doesn't necessarily mean a dog is a good example of a mastiff-style breed.

[barnetmill]

Thank you for all the great information. I'll read up on their website. I got thinking about it while watching how my 1 year old Dane moved and ran. She's small for the breed, but she is very quick on her feet and moves more gracefully than larger Danes I've been around. It seems like when people bred for size they lost some of the coordination that made these dogs so impressive. I also think temperment suffered when people lost of the fact that size doesn't necessarily mean a dog is a good example of a mastiff-style breed.

Here is a little more that I thought I had posted but something went wrong.

WHAT IS A BULLDOG short discussion

"It's amazing what some people call a bulldog." Ray L

Opinions vary..... but one thing is certain A real bulldog can not be mistaken. -American Legendz

John LS It varies from hillarious to downright insulting what most call a bulldog.

Heather To call an OWE as a 'bulldog' is incorrect. Most would assume I'm defending the WE as the true bulldog. Not so at all. The WEbreed has two types, mastiff and bulldog, with the mastiff type being the older. "The Beisser/Bulldog type is defined as the true holding and pinning dogs first developed in Germany for the use of sporting noblemen on the hunt and later in Western Europe for the blood sport of bull-baiting. Their use as a hunting dog by sporting nobleman classifies the Beissers as a sporting and hunting dog. The bulldog, by definition, has always been a sporting dog used by sportsmen in the blood sports of the baiting ring. The Beisser type was first recorded in history in Germany in the 5th Century AD. "In Germanic law from the fifth and seventh centuries AD, these Hunting Dogs were recorded in writing for the first time." Dr. Dieter Fleig. The bulldog did not exist, (by name or the sport it was used for), until after the Elizabethan era. It was first recorded by name in 1609 in England. "The term Mastiff until after the age of Elizabeth was used for both mastiff and bulldog, being applied merely to denote a house or watch dog. ... The bulldog became defined by the sport it was used for..." Wynn 1888.
"The tractability that had so characterized the white farmer’s mastiff went out the door." Just as was done 400 years ago, the bulldog was separated from the mastiff, yet today the division between the two have blurred. This is why we are showing the clear distinction between the OWE and the WEB, once again separating the two; the mastiff and the bulldog. they are rustic mastiff in type and temperament."

Both of my dogs are cousins.
One of my dogs is a WEB or a white english bulldog and the other is a OWE since she acts and looks like the extinct white shepherd's mastiffs of long ago. There are other bulldogs breeds. The boxer at one time was a german bulldog, but much of that has been bred out of them.
Picture below shows the head type of the OWE which most older mastiffs type dogs have. The plane of the muzzle and top of the head are parallel. Forehead is low. Nasal cavities are not restricted and results in a much healthier dog all-around.