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  1. #1181
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,261
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  2. #1182
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,563
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    Appears to be truth in advertising.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    242. And a wakeup.

  3. #1183
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,261
    64533230_2237132479705135_7015528202672013312_nromanian shepherd 1935.jpg

    Руслан Боднарчук1 hr

    Румынский пастух. 1933 г.

    Romanian Shepherd. 1933
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  4. #1184
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,261
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  5. #1185
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,261
    A white english named crowley that this year finally reached his mature build, I think he is somewhere between and 3 and 4 years. He is mostly off the Carr family line. We are not sure what he weighs and he is not a huge dog.
    A few years ago he and an alapaha blue blood bulldog, and 5 other neighborhood dog went into the local national forest and tangled with a huge pack of coyotes and only Crowley and ABB Bulldog came back, but badly chewed up. The other five dogs were never found and presumed eaten.

    I have no idea how much any of mine weigh—probably 80-90 pounds🤷*

    yeah his yearly vet appointment is coming up and last year I think he was 78 pounds and he has filled out so much this year. He never needs to go to the vet other than to get shots so that’s why I don’t know his current weight. Yeah, his head also got broader this year lol —I know most folks wouldn’t believe me but it’s true;)
    Crowley.jpg
    i do not understand the physiology, but some dogs are mostly grown by two years and others require closer to 5 years to fill in.
    Here is my youngest at about two years of age and close to 90 lbs. He will be a much bigger than Crowley. Notice how Patches ribs are showing.



    DSCF1830.jpg

    Patch's paternal grandsire at 120 lbs and he could mature to that size, but i think will be thinner.

    marsh.jpg
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  6. #1186
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,281
    Long thick hair is a great defense to bites. I had two males, from the same litter, that would fight sometimes. Long hair bird dog mixes. Only occasionally would I see evidence of a little blood on a lip, an ear or a foot. Never on the main part of the leg, neck, hips, etc. Not saying it's impossible, just saying they bit hard, fought hard and then made up after what ever had set them off was out of their system.

    How do I know they bit hard? I was sitting on the ground cross legged one day petting Buddy, who was sort of lying across my lap. Mickey (the asshole of the pair) came up and jumped on Buddy. I laid bag and started trying to butt/back crawl out from under the fighting dogs. I gave that up as the two seemed to keep on top of me. I knew that if I got Buddy out of the fight Mickey would walk away (the opposite happened if I grabbed Mickey by the collar, Buddy would do his best to help me and keep fighting). They weighed about 65 lbs. each.

    Well, I caught a "break" in the action, reached up and grabbed Buddy by the collar to pull him off to the left and out of the fight. At that moment Mickey was going for a throat bite and got my left wrist instead as I was moving Buddy. He bit through my coat sleeve with two teeth. One just tore some skin and other one did a sort of puncture/tear thing that was bleeding pretty good. I won't go into the rest of the fight, I just thought it was amazing that he got through that insulated coat sleeve with two teeth.

    I sometimes worry about the one dog I have now that loves to run down into the woods behind the house and wade in the creek. He's 78 lbs. of long hair, big teeth, and he's a runner, so I think he could get back to the house in a hurry if he had to. Thankfully the older smaller dog (also long haired) no longer feels the need to accompany the younger dog.

    On another note, has anyone heard about a decrease in the coyote population in their area? Or seen possible signs of it? I ask because this summer, the first summer in 12 or 15 years, we have cotton tail rabbits playing/running/living in our yard. We have ground hogs digging holes under our sheds and yesterday my wife saw one exploring in the back yard (just walking around looking things over from a shed to the bass boat and then off behind the garage.) We have some stray cats wondering around, too. Haven't seen any of that in many years and it makes me wonder if the coyote population in this area dropped off for some reason. As few as 3 or 4 years back coyotes were seen in my yard and back lot.

  7. #1187
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,563
    Lots of yotes out here, but three large dogs marking territory seem to keep them away. The rabbits don't seem to be concerned.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    242. And a wakeup.

  8. #1188
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,261
    Coyotes are subject to diseases just like any other group of wild canines. I do not know for your area, but yes there could be a drop in the population.

    The pros of short hair I think shine relative to climate. My dogs are not bothered that much by our NW Florida summers. The two more active ones including the male in the previous post loves to run around and frolic in mock combat that involves running full tilt for short distances. They do drink a lot of water on a hot day. This type of dog was developed in the south eastern USA and their physiology reflects that. For the short white coat: It is easier to find ticks, especially with the white hair. The downside I think is cold weather and we do get some, often just a couple nights where the temps are below 20 F. Did not happen last winter and my Banana plant survived the entire winter with only minor frost damage.

    The long hair does give some protection for fighting, but note that pit dogs in the USA are short haired and the skin is not loose. But then most pit fights are not too the death and get stopped. Pit dogs that can not be handled and broken apart do not get allowed back to fight, at least among the other more traditional pitmen. A flock guardian may not have human back up and fights are resolved by the combating animals and often end in death for the loser. Many traditional flock guardians have a different set up to the way teeth are arranged. While some of them, especially new forms of the breeds are undershot, some are not. A typical bulldog for example has an undershot jaw and I believe it is intended to securely hang on to livestock without the dogs grip tearing loose. A catch dog is suppose to hang on and not intended to kill. I have never seen a study of this, but I believe that a typical bulldog's jaw and dental arrangement has been selected for this task. The undershot jaw is ancient and appears to have been present in Roman times.
    Dogs intended to kill have different dental arrangement and the jaws are not so short.
    For killing bigger game the ideal is what one sees in some northern wolves. It is what they do and they are the larger of the wolf types and their jaws are robust and not so thin as one sees on many coyotes.
    For most white english dogs like what I have, they have a lot of bulldog genes and most often the jaws are often undershot, but our breed standard still calls about a 3 inch minimum of muzzle length so that they can still fight. My two larger one have the loose skin and have the jaws of typical mastiff in that they are not undershot which is good. My smallest white english is a bulldog type in behavior and anatomy. She has the pit rear that make waddle little bit when she walks and she can turn on a dime. She is undershot in jaw, pushier and not as laid back, and friendlier to strangers. If she wants something she loudly barks to make it known. Skin is tight and she loves to fight. She won't start it, but the moment a dog disrespects her she wants at it.


    Two of my larger dogs have very loose skin around the throat and upper body and it does allow a dog that has been grabbed to twist around and in turn bite its foe. Many bulldogs also have loose skin due mastiff genes in their background. American bulldogs were crossed with various dogs including mastiff types to get bigger dogs. The white english that JD Johnson started with happened to have been smaller than he wanted. My bulldog like female is 68 lbs and they do go smaller.
    Picture of my 2 yr male that does not have an undershot jaw and he has adequate teeth that will get a little longer as he matures. They typical WE grow a little until about the age of 5 yrs with many WE.
    Another topic that I will not say too much here about is that WE dogs must be not allowed to fight and if it happens it must stopped immediately. You can easily end up with dead and badly injury dogs. Those of the Carr type which mine are were bred to kill.

    DSCF1833.jpg
    Last edited by barnetmill; 06-28-2019 at 04:33 PM.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  9. #1189
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,261
    Posted by a member of the White English Preservation Society. Many farm dog types will not kill other pets of the household and some will, but can be taught not to and their natural instinct is to kill any predator.
    We rescued a cat from a gas station not too long ago. We didn’t know she was pregnant. She had 4 babies. Princess was scared to death of the cat yet she stood by and watched her give birth, through a glass door. She now loves “her” kitties!
    Earl, is learning 😂
    65415263_10219713147684264_8455396579698802688_oKitten dog.jpgkitten dog.jpg
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  10. #1190
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    SE Louisiana
    Posts
    260
    ^^^ We have a Lab and 2 ankle biters along with 3 inside cats. In the house they all get along fine, with the cats calling the shots in any disagreements.
    But if one of the cats sneaks outside and the dogs spot it, playtime is over and that cat better find a safe place quickly.
    No major injuries yet but there have been a few close-call rescues.

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