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  1. #1151
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Prescott, AZ
    Posts
    108
    Correct. The pit I use for my bandogs comes out of that area of MS and from Dallas.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Ryan
    Glendale, AZ
    1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

    Ephesians 1:3-14

  2. #1152
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
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    14,693
    Both of these dogs are white english dogs off of Georgia stock and are closely related being cousins, but are very different in type relative to anatomy and behavior. The all white one is old mastiff type and very similar in behavior to a great Pyrenees and is intended to guard things like sheep and the homestead. The smaller dog is bulldog in anatomy and behavior. She is pushier and operates like a catch dog. The difference is due to the mixtures that were used by farmers in the past and different types or phenotypes are thrown when the pups are born.


    Inked60930773_2175784315831801_2426799514586185728_nBig Fangs_LI.jpgInked60930773_2175784315831801_2426799514586185728_nBig Fangs_LI.jpg
    Last edited by barnetmill; 05-21-2019 at 10:20 PM.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  3. #1153
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Prescott
    Posts
    706
    [QUOTE=barnetmill;1936774]Both of these dogs are white english dogs off of Georgia stock and are closely related being cousins, but are very different in type relative to anatomy and behavior. The all white one is old mastiff type and very similar in behavior to a great Pyrenees and is intended to guard things like sheep and the homestead. The smaller dog is bulldog in anatomy and behavior. She is pushier and operates like a catch dog. The difference is due to the mixtures that were used by farmers in the past and different types or phenotypes are thrown when the pups are born.


    your all white appears to be dogo argentino

    Do NOT call me an armorer
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
    Now I am become Death, the destroyer of all worlds
    People have asked me if I consider myself a good or bad person. The truth of it is, I don't know or care. I have been called both. I like to think I have saved more lives than I have ended. Either way, I can still sleep at night.
    SEMPER FI

  4. #1154
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,693
    [QUOTE=ShopMonkey;1936775]
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    Both of these dogs are white english dogs off of Georgia stock and are closely related being cousins, but are very different in type relative to anatomy and behavior. The all white one is old mastiff type and very similar in behavior to a great Pyrenees and is intended to guard things like sheep and the homestead. The smaller dog is bulldog in anatomy and behavior. She is pushier and operates like a catch dog. The difference is due to the mixtures that were used by farmers in the past and different types or phenotypes are thrown when the pups are born.


    your all white appears to be dogo argentino
    She is absolutely not a Dogo.
    When crossing the white english you end up with dogs of very different behavior and the laid-back demeanor is gone. The modern versions of all white american bulldogs started with white english in the 1970's and you can get very different behavior due to what was mixed in them by Johnson, Scott, and others. The conquistadors, settlers, and priest-brothers brought the first european dogs to america and it is quite possible that somewhere in the past that the dogo argentino and white English had similar breeds in them. The information I have is that the dogo started in 1928 off the cordoba fighting dog and it is certainly possible that some of that breed is in the white english that I have. Records of dog breeding in colonial america for La Florida do not exist and the original spanish settlers and control was taken over by the brits after a lot of fighting and wars. My Memphis has almost no prey drive and so will not hunt much. Her bulldog cousin will hunt. She is extremely territorial also so laid back that some people including my vet did think she would not be much of a watch dog. Those dogs of capable of dr Jekyll and Hyde changes when they turn on and they quickly can turn off and go back to being calm and laid back.
    History
    In 1928, Antonio Nores Martinez, a medical doctor, professor and surgeon, set out to breed a big game hunting dog that was also capable of being a loyal pet and guard dog. Antonio Martinez picked the Cordoba Fighting Dog to be the base for the breed.[5] This breed is extinct today, but it was said that as a large and ferocious dog, it was a great hunter. Martinez crossed it with the Great Dane, Boxer, Spanish Mastiff, Old English Bulldog, Bull Terrier, Pyrenean Mastiff, Pointer, Irish Wolfhound and Dogue de Bordeaux.[5] Nores Martinez continued to develop the breed via selective breeding to introduce the desired traits.
    Last edited by barnetmill; 05-15-2019 at 01:37 PM.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  5. #1155
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,693
    Variations in the White English that is based on a mixture of many dog types from colonial times.
    Mark in Georgia: Found another local White English today! I always get excited
    Heather: Nice! This is what I expect Cletus to look like in a few years. Notice the mountain mastiff coat like the CAS and rustic Alpine Mastiff
    Norris: Handsome fella. Clutching my heart.. my old male had a booming bark too. The yard is too quiet without it. R.I.P
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  6. #1156
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,693
    Here is a white english that has a strong mastiff phenotype, was 120 lbs. Does not look like a dogo at all. He was the father to my while femal. His first owners noted when they got him two packs dogs were no more and burglaries stopped. Maybe because of the dog, no one knows for sure. His last act before being given to someone else was to kill a bobcat that was attacking his chickens.

    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  7. #1157
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Prescott, AZ
    Posts
    108
    Female puppy I'm importing. 6 and a half weeks old.

    Bandog out of Europe. Cane Corso, Neapolitan Mastiff, and pitbull.

    Mom is 158lbs, dad is 176lbs.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Ryan
    Glendale, AZ
    1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

    Ephesians 1:3-14

  8. #1158
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,693
    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    Female puppy I'm importing. 6 and a half weeks old.

    Bandog out of Europe. Cane Corso, Neapolitan Mastiff, and pitbull.

    Mom is 158lbs, dad is 176lbs.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I like the head on the pup. Unless I need to them go after a bear 150-180 lbs are maybe too huge. Hard to pull them off of another dog or a human. We had a fellow just yesterday that wants to breed large ban dogs the other day and he also wanted some size in his. He was using pit bulls mixes and found they tended to throw smaller dogs than he wanted. fighting wt pit bulls are only about 35-55 lbs. He was looking for 100 lbs plus white english to use. A lot of the old time bulldog breeders always use to cross in We to the mix. One of our group suggested dogo argentine would do what he wanted.
    Ban dogs are not the same as the war dogs for example that the conquistadores used dogs being like 65-80 lbs. The cuban blood hounds that were used to run down indians and such were not huge dogs, but later on when blood hounds of the mixed mastiff type got popular in the 2nd half of the 19th century they got huge and were often called Siberian blood hounds and look to be based on german mastiffs or like heavier great danes.

    Here are some so called siberian bloods being used in an enactment of Uncle Toms Cabin
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  9. #1159
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Prescott, AZ
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    I like the head on the pup. Unless I need to them go after a bear 150-180 lbs are maybe too huge. Hard to pull them off of another dog or a human. We had a fellow just yesterday that wants to breed large ban dogs the other day and he also wanted some size in his. He was using pit bulls mixes and found they tended to throw smaller dogs than he wanted. fighting wt pit bulls are only about 35-55 lbs. He was looking for 100 lbs plus white english to use. A lot of the old time bulldog breeders always use to cross in We to the mix. One of our group suggested dogo argentine would do what he wanted.
    Ban dogs are not the same as the war dogs for example that the conquistadores used dogs being like 65-80 lbs. The cuban blood hounds that were used to run down indians and such were not huge dogs, but later on when blood hounds of the mixed mastiff type got popular in the 2nd half of the 19th century they got huge and were often called Siberian blood hounds and look to be based on german mastiffs or like heavier great danes.

    Here are some so called siberian bloods being used in an enactment of Uncle Toms Cabin
    I'm not using 150-180 for a primary protection dog, but I need the size.

    This particular kennel has 180lb dogs that actually work.

    Here's a grandfather of the dam of that pup - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAItSYHRL4c

    You can use a small male game dog/bandog that is heavy game/low weight, breed it to a large dog that has drive and athleticism like the dog in the video, and end up with a 90-120 lb dog that has a lot of working drives.

    There's really only one guy that I know of, personally, that advocates for using Dogo Argentino in his bandog mix. I'm against it. There are too many negative characteristics in using Dogo Blood that it doesn't make it worth using.

    The dogo is high prey drive and dog aggressive, but it isn't good for man work, suspicion, or territory defense. There are exceptions to this, but I'm talking in general. I have a few dogs that have a pure Dogo sire, so they're 50% Dogo. Also, this doesn't even take into consideration the skin issues associated with Dogo, or the probability for throwing deaf dogs.

    Our 50% Dogo sired a litter that threw one deaf dog.

    When you step back and look at it, what positive traits does Dogo bring to the table that can't be gotten elsewhere? And without bringing in the setbacks that Dogo brings?

    IMO, it's not worth it, and I would stay away from using Dogo blood. Unless you want to chase pigs. Which I don't, I want to make dogs that stop nefarious men.
    Ryan
    Glendale, AZ
    1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

    Ephesians 1:3-14

  10. #1160
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,693
    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    I'm not using 150-180 for a primary protection dog, but I need the size.

    This particular kennel has 180lb dogs that actually work.

    Here's a grandfather of the dam of that pup - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAItSYHRL4c

    You can use a small male game dog/bandog that is heavy game/low weight, breed it to a large dog that has drive and athleticism like the dog in the video, and end up with a 90-120 lb dog that has a lot of working drives.

    There's really only one guy that I know of, personally, that advocates for using Dogo Argentino in his bandog mix. I'm against it. There are too many negative characteristics in using Dogo Blood that it doesn't make it worth using.

    The dogo is high prey drive and dog aggressive, but it isn't good for man work, suspicion, or territory defense. There are exceptions to this, but I'm talking in general. I have a few dogs that have a pure Dogo sire, so they're 50% Dogo. Also, this doesn't even take into consideration the skin issues associated with Dogo, or the probability for throwing deaf dogs.

    Our 50% Dogo sired a litter that threw one deaf dog.

    When you step back and look at it, what positive traits does Dogo bring to the table that can't be gotten elsewhere? And without bringing in the setbacks that Dogo brings?

    IMO, it's not worth it, and I would stay away from using Dogo blood. Unless you want to chase pigs. Which I don't, I want to make dogs that stop nefarious men.

    Very good insight about the comportment of the dogo. And pig hunting is a common use for them.

    I will likely quote what is put in blue elsewhere. The deafness and skin problem crop up in other white bully types. Some white english dogs and american bulldogs that have WE in them throw blue eyes that are often associated with deafness. Pigmented white english dogs like this bulldog type of WE will not have skin problems, blue eyes, or deafness. I do not understand the genetics of it and know some breeds of dogs with blue eyes will be not be deaf. Especially if they are otherwise heavily pigmented such as catahoulas. Our group has gone to lengths to not breed blue eye dogs.
    Oct 18 ginger.jpg
    The above dog that is a bulldog in type and not mastiff has more drive than other WE and is less suspicious and friendlier to strangers often seeking attention when not in the yard. She was given to me because she is not a good watch dog. I have seen her try to go after people if the scenario she though was bad and thought something was wrong. It just for people her on switch is very high threshold. Relative to dogs, if she is challenged, she will very quickly fight.
    Relative to size if someone is not armed one of my neighbor's cockerspaniels put a pizza delivery boy in the ER. The best known large dogs that were set on people were the bullmastiffs that were meant to hold an intruder and not kill them. A 100 lbs plus dog can easily kill someone if their ferocity is not checked. Many trained K9 tend to be trained to hold an arm in their bite work.
    JD Johnson was generally against training his strain of american bulldogs for attack work.
    JDJ: If you attack-train a pure bulldog wrong you will create a man killer, I have said this for years and people still don't believe me. Over the years, I've seen many of my dogs get returned because of this. Most recently, Jack Peeler bought a dog just like that he paid a good deal of money for him and he ended up the same way. If you insist on protection training get a professional trainer that specialized in bull breeds, first you've got to socialize your puppy with people and train him in basic obedience. Most cases they didn't do that, they just beat on the dog and taught him to bite. You never want one of my dogs to love to fight a man it will spell danger fast. My dogs have a strong protection drive already, they are very friendly to everyone but they love their owners and if something comes up they will protect you naturally.
    My point is mastiff type dogs can easily be killers and one does need to put that in their calculations when breeding and deploying them. This is what blood hounds did like the infamous Spot of andersonville prision when running down escaping union soldiers. He was in the 150 lbs range.
    The protecting naturally is the goal and our WE group is generally very set against doing much formal training. If it needs training to protect the dog is no good. I have noticed that my two females that I socialized as pups are much better with strangers than my young male that was not. He seems to be much more suspicious. He does not turn off completely very quickly like they do. He also ranges the property a lot more. The females tend to hang out closer to the house.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

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