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  1. #1
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    Default Some thoughts on Night Vision, RMRs and Tritium...

    1). If you want to really own the night, Night Vision is where its at...not in brighter flashlights.

    2). The Adjustable Brightness RMR (RM06 and RM07) works great with the PVS-14s we are using, and most importantly, does NOT project an IR laser that can be seen by opposing forces also equipped with night vision. Can't do that with a non-adjustable RMR, or a Docter or a Delta Point...sadly enough.

    3). Tritium can be seen a long way off if someone is alert and looking for it. Along with item #1, guys that want to do well in this realm need to get away from the "What A Civilian Needs" mindset. A bright flashlight or bright "easily seen" tritium sights will get you killed if the man or men you are going against know anything at all. Recall the "People Don't Fight The Same Today", thread and how technology pushes the limits.

    4). If "On The Hunt" with a tritium equipped pistol, the ready position may be altered so the support hand thumbprint rests on the tritium element of the front sight, and the firing hand thumbprint rests on the rear sight. This will change nto a firing position when needed but will keep the bad guys from seeing your glow on a dark, cloudy, moonless night.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
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    nothing better than picking guys up from a few miles away because they forgot to tape over or cover their glow in the dark diving watch faces...or they forgot to think about the ignition light on their ATV even under canopy in a Louisiana swamp......even from 12k feet up you could see them through thin cloud cover :)
    It is not the critic who counts; not who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is in the arena, whose face is marred by dust, sweat and blood; who strives valiantly;but comes short again and again; who spends himself in a worthy cause; and who at the worst, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. T.Roosevelt

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez View Post
    an IR laser that can be seen by opposing forces also equipped with night vision. Can't do that with a non-adjustable RMR
    Could you expand on that? Does the non adjustable rmr led give off enough of a signature to be seen with NV?
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  4. #4
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    Almost worth it's own thread on target indicators. Watches are a so often over looked - the G-Shock auto illumination when the wrist hits certain angles is evil.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    Could you expand on that? Does the non adjustable rmr led give off enough of a signature to be seen with NV?
    All can be seen in NV. The issue is how bright? The highest setting on the RM06 (a 3.5 MOA unit) is too bright for night vision. You see a huge green baseball where a 3.5 MOA should be. But turning it down to "barely visible" is still bright enough to use with the PVS-14. Although at that setting you would not be able to use it in the daytime. I doubt that Trijicon ever intended that, but there you are.

    On the tritium thing. This dates back to 1990-something when Trijicon and Meprolight made their debut into law enforcement. I recall a training exercise we did with a neighboring unit. I was the bad guy and I was able to track them and attack them by seeing their brand new tritium sights. Interestingly enough, when I trained with LASO SEB, they all eschewed any tritium on their entry weapons.
    Gabe Suarez

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez View Post
    All can be seen in NV. The issue is how bright? The highest setting on the RM06 (a 3.5 MOA unit) is too bright for night vision. You see a huge green baseball where a 3.5 MOA should be. But turning it down to "barely visible" is still bright enough to use with the PVS-14. Although at that setting you would not be able to use it in the daytime. I doubt that Trijicon ever intended that, but there you are.
    Oh you're talking from the perspective of looking through the rmr. I read it as that your meaning was the rmr was giving off something that another party could see as an indicator from afar. Thanks for the clarification.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    Could you expand on that? Does the non adjustable rmr led give off enough of a signature to be seen with NV?
    I just realized we were talking about two different things. Think of it this way. During the day, you can compare a Red Dot Sight and a Red Laser (green laser is the same but I want to be color coordinated in my discussion). You can bring a pistol into line of sight with a Red Dot RMR, and another with a red laser. Put both on a target. Which one does the target see? The red laser. Which one traces a visible line if there is moisture, smoke, or fog in the air? The laser. The RMR does none of those things, yet provides the same visual efefct for the shooter.

    OK?

    Now the same thing happens with IR visible lasers. Anyone equipped with an NV unit will see your laser if you use it...but not the dot on your RMR. The fact the pistol is held away from the body and can be floated in front of the Night Vision is an asset. Now I will say for shots exceeding maybe ten yards, this won't work very well...but for indoors CQB...oh hell yes. For longer or more precise shooting the IR laser will be needed because unlike the human eye, the NVG cannot be instantly shifted in focus. It is shifted and left.

    As well, running the pistol is a different deal than running the rifle.
    Gabe Suarez

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  8. #8
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    Is there enough forward light signature with a non-adjustable (Or an adjustable left on auto) to be seen by NV like the Tritium sight problem mentioned previously?
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  9. #9
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    I will add a couple of things on this topic, from my somewhat "limited" experience.....

    The easy proliferation of Night Vision equipment at a relative low cost means that now days nearly everyone is Aided (that the term we use for wearing NVGs), this means that active IR aiming or illumination needs to be used carefully because even shitty Gen1 eastern bloc equipment that has poor visual acuity will very easily see an active light source (IR or Visual).

    This certainly doesn't mean that the field is level; it is still sloped in the favor of the guy with the better technology, however not as steeply sloped as it once was. This means that we can't brazenly toss on our cloak of darkness and expect to be invisible. We now need to assume that our adversaries are "aided" and apply the same good principles of cover and concealment that we use during the daylight.

    On the RMRs...... I have been carrying an RMR equipped pistol operationally for the past couple of years and have used it extensively while aided. The RMR O7 is the cat's azz for this application and beats lasers hands down. I had an RMR 04 (tritium) on my first one and it worked ok with NVGs but I didn't care for it during the day time (it was WAY too bright).

    On tritium sights...... as Gabe was saying about being able to track his OPFOR by their sights, now days that is even more pronounced if looking thru NVGs. I don't hate tritium sights but I hate BRAND NEW tritium sights, 50-70% depleted is about perfect IMO or dimmed with the application of some varnish.
    Cheers
    T.

    "VICTORIOUS WARRIORS WIN FIRST...
    AND THEN GO TO WAR,
    WHILE DEFEATED WARRIORS GO TO WAR FIRST...
    AND THEN SEEK TO WIN." Sun tzu


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by azDevilsFan View Post
    Is there enough forward light signature with a non-adjustable (Or an adjustable left on auto) to be seen by NV like the Tritium sight problem mentioned previously?
    Forward light signature isn't very bad on any of them; rather it is the reflection off of your face or body on the non-adjustable (bright) units that is what is easily seen with NVGs
    Cheers
    T.

    "VICTORIOUS WARRIORS WIN FIRST...
    AND THEN GO TO WAR,
    WHILE DEFEATED WARRIORS GO TO WAR FIRST...
    AND THEN SEEK TO WIN." Sun tzu


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