Terrorist Interdiction/Active Shooter Chattanooga TN Oct. 27-28 with Randy Harris

**Mark Hatfield** · 10-29-2012, 08:34 PM

Could easily have been a 3 or 4 day course, I think all agreed we would have loved more. The scenarios with airsoft weapons were particulary enlightening. Would be glad to hear more from the guest speaker as well.

On the way home I realized I had misunderstood or read too much into my role for the last few scenarios. I was thinking I was to be a 'generic' tourist or bystander rather than act as myself as a 'tourist'. Because cause of this I missed an opportunity to attempt to seize an attackers holstered gun while he was on the ground with a resisting victim (Might have gotten even more interesting otherwise). But generally, it made no diference to how the situations played out, particulary due to the speed of which the agressors could dominate the room in which most of the events occured.

Further, on review, I noticed how easy is to get concerned with a focal figure and neglect to scan the area for other threats or possible problems. How fast these situations can develop was of great interest. The distinctions between common 'criminal' attacks compared to an 'active shooter' to a 'terrorist, hostage taker, etc.' were also of some interest.

Experiencing such as forcing your way through a crowd while having a gun in hand were valuable. Randys' teaching technique was a 'miminalist' style which worked very well for our group who often needed tweaking rather than correcting.

I'd do it again, especially if it could be longer.

**Mark Hatfield** · 10-29-2012, 10:16 PM

Was just thinking, would be good to include a little material on suicide bombers, the type wearing vests. Info such as commonly used materials, blast radius, affect of bullets if impacting the explosive or triggers.

**Mark Hatfield** · 10-29-2012, 10:54 PM

Oh, And when shooting from behind a vehicle when the instructor has the students use his own personal vehicle instead of a barrel or just dry fire from it, that's a powerfull statement.

**Randy Harris** · 11-01-2012, 06:01 AM

I just saw this review. I wasn't expecting it in this subforum but I guess it is appropriate here too.

This class could very well be a 3 or even 4 day class since there is just so much info and material to cover. Instead of like drinking from a fire hose it is like drinking from a water cannon.

One thing with this group we had , I really did not have much work to do on getting everyone up to speed on the marksmanship. With the exception of Mr Hatfield (who needed no help with his shooting), everyone else in the class has trained with me at least 3 times. That makes things in a class like this easier when everyone has at least seen many of the concepts before and you can concentrate on moving forward not reteaching people how to operate their pistols.

The down side to that is you have a class heavy with skilled people. That means that the guys playing terrorists are not going to be easy targets. One instance was when we did the "beat the rifle reload" drill. Most everyone on the AK was super fast on their reloads giving the pistol shooter only a minimum of time to shoot without "being shot at". I told everyone to keep in mind that the typical active shooter would not be doing sub 5 second reloads.

Another issue to keep in mind, that while several people in the immediate area got shot in the FOF evolutions, the Terrorists usually got shot to pieces and they would have been stopped. If we'd had another room full of innocent bystanders they would have been saved by the actions taken by those in the immediate area of the terrorists.

Also keep in mind that airsoft guns just do not work well at distance and at least 1 scenario might have been worked out differently if the hostage takers could have been engaged from cover from distance but alas due to the realities of airsoft gun technology that was not an option. A 25 yard shot with a pistol is no big deal...it is a feat of marksmanship (and guesswork) with an airsoft gun with the wind blowing any at all.

I'll post some pics tonight.

**vlazlow** · 11-01-2012, 06:04 AM

Thanks for the kind words Mark. I would have loved to had the time to address IEDs and suicide bombings (i have tons of materiel on this subject). It was, without a doubt, a lot of info and training to cramed into 2 days. I can talk for hours and hours on this stuff :-) I am glad you enjoyed the class and thank you for the opportunity to speak.

**Cold War Scout** · 11-01-2012, 06:55 AM

Suicide bombings can be hit or miss as regards casualties. (Although the odds aren't with you.)

In the Mike's Place bombing in 2003 in Israel, the security guard who threw the Arab looking (even though he was a British citizen) bomber to be to the ground, survived the explosion a moment later. And because the bomber didn't make it indoors, where the enclosed space would have been the bomber's friend, the end result was "only" three killed. And it was a pretty respectable bomb that went off:

Mike's place.jpg

**wbacker89** · 11-01-2012, 03:18 PM

I attended the Terrorist Interdiction/Active Shooter course this past weekend in Chattanooga, TN with Randy Harris. The class started off Saturday morning with a lecture from Randy about the history of active shooter situations in the United States and overviews of what went down, what the shooters used and how the outcomes of the situations. After the lecture we headed out to the range to jump right into part of the shooting aspect of the course. We started off with a little dry work, and then worked into making hits on small targets (eye socket size) from 3 yards back out to 15. Randy then had us pin up some “Cash Money” onto one side of the targets face, so we had to pay a little more attention to our shooting or we would pay a bigger penalty. We then backed things up even further and worked using a little bit of cover while engaging a steel target (vital zone size) at 35 yards. We finished the range session up with a little engagement of steel targets (12” Plates) out to the 50 yard range while working against a “Terrorist” (One student would fire an AK, do a mag change as fast as possible, and fire another shot. The “Good Guy” would have to draw from the first AK shot and get hits on the steel plates before the “Terrorist” fired off the second shot.).

After the range session we headed to a hotel in Trenton, GA for a presentation on Domestic and International Terrorism provided by Trey Hudson. This was an excellent presentation and really completed the course. It was a 4 hour lecture, which was excellent for a guy like me, who doesn’t have much knowledge from credible sources on terrorism and what threats we are most likely face here. The amount of information provided in this lecture was amazing and definitely too much to try and describe here. Just have to say that hopefully Trey and Randy can team up again in the future for this class and recommend you get in it. The lecture wrapped up around 7:30 and we broke for dinner.

The next morning we started off by looking at a variety of different weapons from rifles, smgs, and pistols that are popular around the world and would be potential likely options for an active shooter or terrorist in an attack. Each student was able to handle and become familiar with each weapon, which is a great benefit to someone like me who has primarily only handled Glocks, Aks, and ARs. We then looked into some H2H and knife material specifically from a proactive viewpoint (enemy not yet aware that you are there) and how things differ from a criminal assault that springs on you individually from out of nowhere.

We then headed back out the range to complete the shooting portion of the course. We worked some drills on moving in the 12 direction on an enemy that does not know you are there, with the idea being you close in, pump a few into vital areas of the chest and work up to the head to finish them off before they have a chance to turn and engage you. We then moved to working through our fellow classmates as obstacles and having to engage the enemy on the other end (representing having to work your way through a crowd fleeing from the active shooter). We then worked on using cover as a support for making long distance shots, the scenario being, the bad guy has not yet noticed you and you have time to steady up on something and get a good accurate shot off.

We then moved to working “Battle Field” pickup drills where we had to engage a close range bad guy with either our pistol or our knives, and grab there long gun and/or pistol and engage at further distances. We finished up the range session with working with some full auto weapons for those of us that had never shot any before. We then headed back up to the shop area for a little FoF Scenario work.

For the next few hours we spent time working many different scenarios from active shootings, kidnappings, and terrorist events. This was extremely valuable to me, because it allows the student to experiment with what they think they should do in these types of situations. How do things work out when you fight back immediately, how do they work out when you wait for an opportunity, how do things work out if you just run like hell. I love the FoF work because of the mistakes that are brought out and experienced are so valuable. We wrapped things up with some photos of the group and giving our thoughts on the class.

The only complaint I would have on the class is that it is not long enough. I know the list for people showing up to a 4 day class is probably short but I think it would be worthwhile. As some of the other students suggested, A full day of Presentation, a day of FoF Scenarios, a day of H2H and knife work, and a day of shooting (not in that order or all as individual days) would be excellent. I know me and a few others in this class would definitely sign up for something like that. Other than that it was a great course with a great group of guys. Everyone was a good sport in the FoF scenarios and a lot of good training took place this past weekend.

Thanks again to Trey Hudson for the presentation on Saturday night and for all the knowledge and insight that he brought to the course from his background. It really helped make this class outstanding. Randy again excellent course, I highly recommend anyone who hasn’t had the opportunity to train with Randy to do so. Thanks to everyone who came out this past weekend and made this a great course. I look forward to training with everyone again in the future.