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  1. #1
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    Default CQB - Shooting Through Walls

    Undoubtedly an extremely controversial topic, we used to work it routinely. It involves the concept of shooting an adversary directly through an interior wall.

    For example, your partner is moving into a room and takes fire at the door from the extreme left side of the room. You bring up your rifle or pistol and shoot from the area adjacent toe door to the extreme left area of the apparent room at face/upper chest level, then lowering your muzzle to where a man may go if he takes a knee, bring your shots back toward the starting point.

    Think of writing a long "C" with your shots.

    What is needed -

    1). Certainty that the adversary is in the room alone. The only thing worse than missing a shot on a bad guy is shooting a non-combatant.

    2). The ability to penetrate the interior wall. This is easily done with anything anyone would care to carry on a sling or in a holster. Note - Furniture may affect performance.

    3). An understanding of human nature. When shots are fired, most people will drop their profile.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
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    Good thinking...sheet rock and 2x4's offer little protection to FMJ, especially rifle projected FMJ...lest we also not forget that the same works for the bad guy...


    CRG-Suarez International Combat Pistol Instructor

    SIG SAUER CERTIFIED ARMORER M400, 516, 716, M4, AR15, M16


  3. #3
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    Thanks for the write-up.

    I have wondered about the use of this tactic.

  4. #4
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    It is food for thought...even if you missed the drywall and 2x4 fragmentation screaming around the room would/could damage or convince him otherwise...


    CRG-Suarez International Combat Pistol Instructor

    SIG SAUER CERTIFIED ARMORER M400, 516, 716, M4, AR15, M16


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    I was browsing Netflix a few weeks back and came across a TV show series called Burn Notice. Ex-CIA guy in Miami. Anyway in one episode he has a drug dealer he has to deal with. So he walks up to the hardened door of the dealer's house, and proceeds to draw a low rectangle off to the left side of the door as he was facing it. Not quite a square. Used a magic marker. He then rings the dealer's doorbell/knocks on the door. I can't remember specifically if the dealer verbally answered the door or not (through the still closed door). But in an event our protagonist starts pumping rounds through the square. You can hear the dealer scream in agony. I can't remember if our protagonist kicks in the door or whatever, but he gains entry and there is our dealer shot several times in the leg(s), including one specific shot in a kneecap.

    I remember thinking "That's pretty cool", and wondered if some dirtbags watching this show who specialize in home invasions, would find that a useful tactic when ringing a doorbell/knocking on a door....
    I shamelessly profile. Extensively and all day long. It is what I credit my survival to.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    moving further off the grid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptBeach View Post
    ...sheet rock and 2x4's offer little protection to FMJ, ...
    I can personally vouch that sheet rock and 2X4's offer little protection from 9mm JHPs as well.

  7. #7
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    One thing to add. This is an ammo heavy exercise and a mere 5 shots or even 7 shots will be quickly insufficient. This was were we learned to stage the pistol magazine, as well where a 20 round or 33 round pistol magazine is useful, and where a 30 round stick in a long gun is even better.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Gabe,
    Controversial? most certainly....But that has never stopped you before bro, so why stop now. However a very real TTP when engaging in "Urban Combat" v.s. "Precision work" (ie hostage rescue, or in a mixed target environment) naturally ROE is a huge factor here.

    I am glad that you brought this often overlooked topic up. It is important to understand "through barrier" engagement because it is a very much a two-way street. In fact a "bad guy" is much more likely to freely shoot through a barrier than will a soldier or police officer, because he really has no responsibility for his actions; it is either win or die. So we need to remember this and always keep in perspective what barriers (walls, floors, etc.) are around us and whether or not they will stop bullets (most won't).

    Along the same lines as engaging through walls is to engage up through the floor from a lower room. This has been done on many occasions in modern urban combat and I have experienced it personally when on rooftops in Afghanistan. Additionally when employed properly the effects of fire can be used to channel an adversary to another location or to fix them in one place.

    All and all this is graduate level thinking...Great topic!
    Cheers
    T.

    "VICTORIOUS WARRIORS WIN FIRST...
    AND THEN GO TO WAR,
    WHILE DEFEATED WARRIORS GO TO WAR FIRST...
    AND THEN SEEK TO WIN." Sun tzu


  9. #9
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    Thank you Sua! As I recall, and this is back I think early 1990s...a SWAT guy was shot by a bad guy through the wall, which brought up the discusion. In police, and sadly I suspect in your world as well, a great deal of learning takes place once something bad happens.

    In any case...it was as if nobody had ever thought of that back then so of course, the experimentation was on.

    The hard part is that urban dwellings may as well be made of paper for all the protection they offer. In fact, if one was to look at it that way it would lead to clearer thinking with tactics. Some guys use that as an indictment of the "stack" tactic, but that is wrong in my opinion. the constraints of the interior environment do place certain limits on how one can move, and specially on how a team can move.

    Problem = How to keep a team dispersed but at the same time set the stage for a quick multiple man entry through a door?

    Answer = There is no good answer and everything will be a compromise. The best solution is to do it fast, hard, and with as much surprise as possible so by the time the bad guy thinks of it, he is already dead. Not always easy to do.

    And you are very right on the ROE thing. I would add also certainty of room occupants.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    I brought it up at a TEMS (SWAT medic) course that I was helping John with last year. I casually mentioned to a few of the students that if a guy starts shooting at them, and then ducks back into a room...DON'T GO IN AFTER HIM! Just fill him in through the wall....

    There were a few looks of "This dude is crazy!" but also a few . I had to follow it with the importance of knowing who you are fighting and what your ROE is, however the concept should not be discarded just because it has risks, I look at it as another tool to be used at the right time for the right problem.

    Yes!! You are spot on with the solution. SPEED, SURPRISE, and VIOLENCE OF ACTION is what it needed to win the urban fight.
    Last edited by SUA SPONTE; 07-14-2012 at 12:01 PM.
    Cheers
    T.

    "VICTORIOUS WARRIORS WIN FIRST...
    AND THEN GO TO WAR,
    WHILE DEFEATED WARRIORS GO TO WAR FIRST...
    AND THEN SEEK TO WIN." Sun tzu


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