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res308
10-17-2011, 09:30 AM
Before you ask, I have searched and searched on here. Just can't find exactly the information I'm looking for. My search-fu is not good.

I'm building some ARs. Haven't been in that game for a while. Using 1/7 twist.

I know I'll need to aquire some serious ammo, such as DPX or other, for serious use. I'll also purchase some Wolf, Brown Bear, or Silver Bear for practice.

But, regarding commonly available (and affordable) brass ammo that could be accumulated and reserved for serious social work, what would you recommend? I've looked at prices on 855 and 193 from Wideners, but I've also looked at the PMC X-TAC ammo on AIM. Don't know the bullet construction on that one.

Ammo primarily for defense (of course). So, I'm not just shopping price, I'm also wondering about the projectile performance of the commonly available ammo.

Thoughts?

BGY
10-17-2011, 09:58 AM
The best deal on quality brass ammo I've seen is from one of the companies you mentioned. Widner's IMI M193/m855 is considered top tier mil spec ammo at the best price I've seen to date. I recently bought five 1200 round cases. Do the math and you will see for yourself.

Pokeguyjai
10-17-2011, 10:47 AM
I have shot a few thousand round of the IMI that I bought early this year or late last year and have had good results. But people have been giving inconsistent reviews of the IMI since the sale started at Wideners.

IMO there are better deals out there (like at Aimsurplus) for brass .223.

res308
10-17-2011, 11:10 AM
OK. What about the PMC X-TAC at AIM? I've seen you speak highly of it here before, but I was wondering about the bullet construction/terminal performance. I'm just about to place an order with AIM for a BCG and thought about getting some of this as well. Or, would the 193 be better anti-personnel?

Pokeguyjai
10-17-2011, 11:19 AM
M855 and M193 both suck. If you want self defensive ammo in BULK then the 75gr Prvi HP are not bad but not great.

PMC XTAC is not a bad choice, decently priced. I would get a few boxes of Wolf too to see if it works in your guns. If it does then I would consider switching over to the 62gr stuff.

55gr or 62gr does not make a big diff at all if you are shooting for fun under 200 yards.

YARP
10-17-2011, 12:35 PM
I have shot a few thousand round of the IMI that I bought early this year or late last year and have had good results. But people have been giving inconsistent reviews of the IMI since the sale started at Wideners.

IMO there are better deals out there (like at Aimsurplus) for brass .223.

I second this statement. Been getting 308 there for a decent price also.

Pokeguyjai
10-17-2011, 12:40 PM
M855 and M193 both suck. If you want self defensive ammo in BULK then the 75gr Prvi HP are not bad but not great.

PMC XTAC is not a bad choice, decently priced. I would get a few boxes of Wolf too to see if it works in your guns. If it does then I would consider switching over to the 62gr stuff.

55gr or 62gr does not make a big diff at all if you are shooting for fun under 200 yards.


I need to clarify this post, just reread it and it contradicts itself.

PMC XTAC is pretty much M855. It uses a M855 projo, hence why it is painted with a green tip. It, like PMC Bronze, is good practice ammo for the price but it is not the best thing to use in a SHTF situation.


I second this statement. Been getting 308 there for a decent price also.

Def bro. Their 168 gr Prvi MATCH is hard to beat price wise. They also have 175gr and 180gr for $1 less per box.

Ruun
12-30-2011, 09:40 AM
SGAmmo sells a case of Remington UMC .223 brass practice ammo for about 28 cents a round with shipping. That's about the best deal on brass cased plinking stuff I've found online. YMMV but try seeing what kind of steel cased ammo your rifle my like for additional savings. Steel cased will always be steel cased but who knows. Maybe your rifle likes zinc plated steel more than lacquer or polymer coated steel?

As for defensive ammo, I've heard good things about the MK318 62gr barrier blind round and the Barnes 50gr TSX round. Should be able to get good results out of a 1:9 barrel for both. The MK318 is especially bulk-buyable, IMO, though.

A note on the PMC X-TAC, it's a Malaysian M855 clone. As far as M855 rounds, I understand that the IMI made M855, as sold from Widener's, is just about the best quality M855 out there. Stay away from the Romanian made Hotshots M855/SS109 sold buy Arsenal (I think). It's cheap for a reason.

doro19
03-23-2012, 09:03 AM
I'm waiting for someone to volunteer to take a shot in the chest with m193 or m855 and share their experience on how influenced them to invest in something more potent.

Ratfink
03-23-2012, 09:11 AM
M855 worked for me in oif/oef lots of damage in soft tissue just doesn't go through objects well that's why mk318mod0 was made

Celtic Cross
03-23-2012, 10:43 AM
M855 worked for me in oif/oef lots of damage in soft tissue just doesn't go through objects well that's why mk318mod0 was made
What weapon were you using?

When I look at reports of poor performance of M855, I see a common denominator: it's almost always guys running M4s that don't like it. Guys running A2s and A4s don't really complain much about ammunition being ineffective.

Re: the comment above about M193 -- M193 is what gave the M16 such a reputation as a killer. Not great at barrier penetration (neither is M855), but tissue wounds are horrific from M193. Sure, OTM/DPX/SST ammo is better, but the question was about inexpensive ammo to stock up on, and those generally don't qualify.

The PMC ammo basically uses the same type of projectile as the military ammo, but I notice their velocity is given from a test barrel. I didn't see what length the barrel was, but test barrels for .223 are usually 24", making these loaded to .223 specs, not 5.56 spec, so the military ammo with the same projectile should be a bit hotter a loading.

otto3
03-23-2012, 11:00 AM
I'm waiting for someone to volunteer to take a shot in the chest with m193 or m855 and share their experience on how influenced them to invest in something more potent.

I'm having a "DAY" would it be possible for me to tell you the name of someone who "volunteerd" .I will write the results down for others to read..lol

Nanuk
03-23-2012, 01:24 PM
In a 1:7 barrel the 77 Grain SMK would be very nice. What barrel length are you building? To a certain extent that will dictate what you want to use for various distances. In FMJ from a 14.5 bbl you are limited to about 75 yards for velocity necessary to ensure fragmentation. I use Speer bonded 64 grain SP, works just like a hunting bullet.

Sigfan22
03-23-2012, 06:17 PM
What weapon were you using?

When I look at reports of poor performance of M855, I see a common denominator: it's almost always guys running M4s that don't like it. Guys running A2s and A4s don't really complain much about ammunition being ineffective.

Re: the comment above about M193 -- M193 is what gave the M16 such a reputation as a killer. Not great at barrier penetration (neither is M855), but tissue wounds are horrific from M193. Sure, OTM/DPX/SST ammo is better, but the question was about inexpensive ammo to stock up on, and those generally don't qualify.

The PMC ammo basically uses the same type of projectile as the military ammo, but I notice their velocity is given from a test barrel. I didn't see what length the barrel was, but test barrels for .223 are usually 24", making these loaded to .223 specs, not 5.56 spec, so the military ammo with the same projectile should be a bit hotter a loading.
Keep in mind, that reputation came when 1 in 12 twist barrels were used. The bullet was barely stabalized. Read some of DocGKR's reviews. He dispels the myth that the m193 is the ultimate man stopper.

Ratfink
03-24-2012, 01:05 AM
Either was the 855 or the 193 coming from our issued 14.5 m4a1's if you are a shooter and put hits on center mass then people fell down , now last time I was in country the 20 inch m16 was being phased out and designated marksman were being issued retrofitted and renewed m14's new ammo that comes out even faster that's 77gr is being issued from what I'm hearing but I'll see for myself soon. The only issues I ever saw were mk18 10 inch guns with specter dr's on them being used by special teams trying to make 400-500 yard hits but we were being issued the mk318 ammo at that time ( that has now been replaced by this new green ammo that kills barrel life) SOCOM and crane have been after green ammo for a while and now it's in production but it's going so fast it's beyond safe limits in the pressure area and soldiers sailors and marines are suffering for it when they should be issued IMHO mk318mod0 ( that was designed for the scar contract)but you have to remember that it is barrier blind.

Dale Hunter
03-24-2012, 10:25 AM
Big Army has been the ones pursuing the "green" ammo for years now. USMC is still using MK318 or the 70gr Brown tip all copper improved round. From my sources SOCOM and Crane are still using MK318 or the Brown tip.

Agreed on M855A1, apparantly the Army forgot what happened the last time they screwed with ammo to get "better" long range use and penetration (Vietnam era).

Ratfink
03-24-2012, 11:37 AM
Well I was on the phone yesterday with people in country and no one has hands on mk318

Dale Hunter
03-24-2012, 08:43 PM
MK318 is in short supply in theater. As is MK262 via my sources unless you are secret squirrel. M855 and M855A1 is plentiful.