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View Full Version : Aqua Terra and red dot question



YARP
09-16-2011, 07:55 AM
I've been putting more rounds down range then normal through my OST RMR G20 and noticed something yesterday. I worked my way through about 200rds just working between 0 to 25 yards at a local range. When other people started to show up at the range the range master asked me to go back to "normal person world" and "shoot with both feet planted firmly behind the bench":laugh:
He was nice enough to break his own ranges rules for me so I didn't think it was to much to ask. My pistol sat idol for about 20 minutes while he talked to me about this "crazy red dot concept". I told him that the capabilities of the red dot were way beyond my skill level and that it was pretty much something you couldn't live without. He smiled and said he'd heard it all before through out the years when it came to technology (he had a revolver on his hip). So at the next break I set up targets at 50y and 100y to blow his mind.
I started at 100y and put 15 out of 20 on the 8" plate (head) with 3 hitting on the target below (a little smaller then chest size) I reminded him that I'm just a regular guy and without the red dot system that amount of hits would have been much, much less. We then went to 50y and started to shoot at only 8" plates, it went well. Suddenly we're not hitting anything. My first thought was this pistol is to hot and the grouping is gone, the other being that the barrel was pretty dirty. I had cleaned it before this range session so I figured it wasn't the barrel, then I figured it was me. So I pulled out my G29 and took some shots, everything went fine. This morning I ran out to the folks place and banged out a quick 20rds at 75y, no issues what so ever, same ridiculously good accuracy as if nothing went poorly the day before. Nope not me, everything seemed normal.
Let me state right now I don't see this as a downfall. Anytime you take a gun and stick a couple hundred rounds down the barrel and then try and go for accuracy things aren't going to work like normal. Groups open, it's the nature of the beast. Granted it would also be rare to stick 300rds down a pistol barrel in any fight so I'm not to concerned.

So my question is, will Aqua Terra covered barrels cool down faster? Will production on barrels other then 9mm begin soon? Was it me or the system? Could a dirty OEM barrel be the cause? It was all the same ammo. Should I start my training with long distance shooting and end with a PSP work out?
Thanks!

Gabriel Suarez
09-16-2011, 10:51 AM
Interesting. Why were you not hitting? What do you think it was? I have never heard of a pistol barrel heating up to a point of throwing rounds.

We have tested the heat issue alot with the slides and RMRs. One thing we do is add a small piece of electrical tape between the slide and the RMR to insulate it from slide heat. Not something a "normal shooter" would experience, but we did. So all our slides have the tape added before they leave the shop.

Things I'd look at....in an investigation of sorts.

1). Check the screws on the RMR to make sure they are tight. That the next day your accuracy was back would seem to preculde the sights being an issue but just in case no?

2). Check the barrel itself. Is your M20 a long slide or an OEM M20? I am just curious on that. But check to make sure the barrel you are using fits, locks up, etc. As well check the recoil spring unit.

3). Finally, take a look at the ammo you were using. And I say the following with all respect and with the spirit of helping. We had a gent with a G-17 have a similar issue last year. He was hitting eyeballs and all of a sudden he would be missing what he was aiming at by about six inches. Luckily he was here in Prescott and I drove out with him to the woods to see what was up. After some debugging we found the problem. He had three different types of ammo in his magazines, and each had a different point of impact. Not noticable when running irons and accepting a dinner plate group, but definitely noticable with a red dot.

Anyway...take a look at those points and let me know.

Gabe

YARP
09-16-2011, 11:27 AM
Thank you! Will do, headed back to the range right now and will report back to all questions ASAP. I was running a threaded LW Dist. barrel but dumped it and went back to the OEM barrel when I started to hear the issues you folks were having with them. This was my second range session with the OEM barrel back in, the first time I wasn't shooting beyond 25m and didn't notice any shift in POI.

Netpackrat
09-16-2011, 12:51 PM
I'm hoping to send my M20 slide in soon, and will be watching this thread with interest. I'm planning on sticking with the OEM barrel for the time being, but would be interested in a match grade barrel later on.

YARP
09-18-2011, 08:52 AM
Gabe,
Thanks again for the suggestions. Here's what I discovered. Upon suggestion to replace the recoil spring unit, I brought an extra one to the range. I first shot with the one I'm running currently (Original Glock spring), as well as running the loads over a chrono. I had grabbed 4 boxes and then went back and grabbed another one. They were from the same manufacturer but produced years apart, there was as much as 283fps difference in velocity. The velocitys were listed and I had not noticed, my fault not the manufacturers.
I don't know if the spring was an issue but I replaced it, re-zeroed at 25y with the same carry ammo and proceeded to repeat the same process as before. Results were much better. The OEM barrel was fine, even when fouled.
Heat as far as I can tell was not an issue in accuarcy results. I will be sticking to two of the some what same loads from now on.
Should I use an aftermarket spring in the future?
Still interested if your coming out with match barrels, as well as caliber change barrels.
Thanks again!

Gabriel Suarez
09-18-2011, 09:51 AM
So it was potentially the ammo. One thing I do with my gear is I have a batch of GOTO ammo that I do my serious shooting with. I don't blow five hundred rounds of it because its expensive, but when I shoot at 50 yards plus, its what I use. For CQB (inside of 25 yards more or less) I use whatever I have in the armory.

YARP
09-18-2011, 12:58 PM
So it was potentially the ammo.

Yes, I'm almost positive it was. It looked like it was stringing, we just didn't notice the other day because we didn't have anything under the 8" plate, so pretty much no reference point to work with on drop (range master couldn't see where they were hitting).

"For CQB (inside of 25 yards more or less) I use whatever I have in the armory."

This is my plan. Use up the rest of the ammo practicing PSP 25y and under.

Netpackrat
09-18-2011, 01:28 PM
What ammo were you using? I have chronoed a couple of brands of 10mm ammo, and have found huge differences between what is quoted, and what the ammo actually achieves.

YARP
09-19-2011, 02:06 PM
What ammo were you using? I have chronoed a couple of brands of 10mm ammo, and have found huge differences between what is quoted, and what the ammo actually achieves.

Local guy who loads for some what cheap. It wasn't his mistake and his stated velocity is always within 50fps.