Considering a diesel truck. Any suggestions?

[mdr]

Hi, guys. I'm considering a diesel pickup truck to use for camping and general outdoor recreational use. Do any of you use a diesel pickup truck and if so what do you like or dislike about it? Thanks for your time.

[KaiserJeep]

One of the guys in the group I camp with got a diesel. Since we seldom go to the same place camping twice in a row, he is always spending time planning his fuel stops. He has to carry two extra cans, plus he has a bigger main tank, because he cannot get fuel at every station. He does get better mileage, by about 2mpg, but he also pays more money per gallon.

I'd say, if you are heavy towing MOST of the time, diesel has advantages. But for general use without a trailer, gasoline has the advantages of universal fuel availability and convenience, especially in the outback. In a fire fight, diesel trucks are less explosive, and the fuel can be carried inside or out, whereas with gas cans, you better have them outside.

Bottom line is that for most users, gasoline is the better choice. For those that need diesel, enough to pay a premium of several thousand per truck, and then put up with the inconvenience of hunting fuel when away from home, you already know, and you don't need to ask. If you are on the fence, go with gasoline.

[jmac_52]

Add to his comments the fact that diesel engines also require frequent maintainence, which includes fuel filters, oil filters, and lots of engine oil....sometimes at least 20 quarts.
My son wanted one very badly and bought a used F250 about 8 months ago.......and I've heard about 7 1/2 months of bellyaching ever since. I tried to talk him out of buying a vehicle with 80K miles.....knowing that it was about ready for major attention. He spent $3K in the first 2 months on different things like a new radiator, brakes, engine maintainence, etc.

I thought about it a few years ago and weighed the pros and cons.....ended up buying a Tundra because it offered the most bang for my buck, and still does! It's not bad on fuel, considering it's running almost 400HP and will pull or carry anything I've tried so far. Average mileage is about 16 MPG in my case.

[LtDan541]

Do you take a large boat with you...how about horses??

[CaptBeach]

Trucks and logistics is one of my fortes too...

Unless you need the towing capacity the diesel offers over gas, or plan on working the thing hard, long trips, lots of miles hauling/towing heavy loads AND keeping it into 200K plus miles then a diesel probably isn't for you. You have to factor in the additional cost of the motors option even on a used truck. New, the diesel engine is between $6000 and nearly $9000 depending on brand over its no charge standard engine in the 250-2500 series trucks that you have to move to to get the diesel (F250, C/K2500 or D2500 series)

The price premium of the diesel engine over its gas alternative (no charge) coupled with the additional maintenance costs, oil changes (14-20 qts, $$$ filters, Fuel additives at oil change) mandatory fuel and oil additives, higher filter costs (air and oil) FAR EXCEED the costs of owning a gas motor. Also factor in the additional cost of diesel fuel over gas. Ridiculously diesel fuel is more expensive than gas, never mind is one of the first fuels cracked off of a barrel of crude at a much lower cost than gas thanks to Uncle Sams tax structure on fuels. SOME diesels get better fuel economy than gas alternatives but not by much, maybe 10-20 percent however factoring in the above and the fact that regular unleaded gas (all factory no charge engines run on it, burning mid grade or premium is a waste of $$$) is on average 30-40 cents cheaper per gallon then your still ahead on the gas version. When you factor in the additional costs of just the motor ($6K-$9K) ask your self how much gas can you buy for that money if gas is $3.50 a gallon. 2143 gallons of gas at an average of $7500 for the motor. 15mpg is 32145 miles of driving, thats nearly 3 years of driving (12K Year) before you've put the first mile on the diesel.

Diesel Pros
Heavy hauling/towing, consistently over 10,000 lbs and lots of it.
Longevity, in a work truck a plus, but how long are you gonna look at the ratted interior/carpet before momma says NO.
Strength, all of the components are heavier, diesels are not offered in the 150/1500 series.
Suspension, all diesels are on larger frames with better stock suspension than 150/1500's.
Fuel economy, on the older Powerstrokes and Cummins but due to emission standards in the last 5 years fuels economy has dwindled away...I drove a 2002-3 F250 7.3 Powerstroke at an honest 26MPG highway and 22 around town.
Durability, they'll take a beating and keep coming back for more.
Torque, some are 50% or more above their gas alternatives

Diesel Cons
Higher fuel costs
Mandatory fuel and oil additives
Higher maintenance costs (much higher)
Much higher cost to own (purchase price)

Now if you just wanna and can afford it...Diesels ROCK...that clickity clack and smoky motor are fun...they have more torque than Carters got pills and are just plain ass Bad Ass and would make good choices for BOV (bug out vehicles) because you can fill up at a farm, a heavy equipment operator and diesel stores for a lot longer than the ethanol gasses we have today.

If it was me...I'd shop around for a used 2000-2003 F150 7.3 PowerStroke or an older Dodge Cummins in very good shape from a conscientious owner who did his maintenance (retiree's hauling travel trailers who can no longer do so due to health or death of spouse is a good source) and has lower mileage and buy the thing as quick as they can count my money. I'd stay away from older GMC diesels as they had some problems with the newer diesel engine they were using (cast iron block aluminum heads they didnt get it right for a while, good now though). Ford also had some issues with its diesel offering having gone thru several evolutions in a fairly short time frame once they lost PowerStroke. Older 7.3 are awesome as are Cummins.

Hope this helps...

[CaptBeach]

Add all of what I said above to the fact that today's new 150/1500 trucks tow and haul as much as 2000-2005 Diesel 250/2500 trucks did...

AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE for the engine.

[bootlegger]

Purchased a F-250 7.3 Powerstroke new in 2002. 190,000 miles and no major repairs. Great for towing. With my in bed fuel tank/tool boxit has gives range of 900 miles without refueling. My cousin has 3 2000-2003 F-250 Powerstrokes used in his excavating comany that are approching 400,000 miles without major repairs. Powerstrokes just keep running, running and running with regular oil changes and fuel additives.

[SPQR476]

I've got a 2006 Dodge 2500 (the last of the 5.9 cummins motors, that can run on regular #2 low sulfur diesel and don't have a particulate filter). I couldn't be happier. Maintenance is a little pricier, sure, but the the oil change interval is 7,500 to 15,000 miles, depending on light or heavy service interval. It pulls my trailer like it's not even there, I've got ridiculous amounts of torque, the mileage/fuel cost thing about evens out, and I tend to keep trucks for a long time. With an over 300,000 mi expected service life, I think I may keep this one a LONG time. Seat covers are cheap. I own it free and clear now, and I've still got plenty of life left in it. With a gas truck, I'd probably be thinking about trading now, but that thought has never crossed my mind with the diesel. I don't know on older models, but I live in Iowa, and I've never had any cold weather issues, even on -10deg mornings. If it's dipping below zero, I just plug the block heater into a christmas light remote control and turn it on from the kitchen while eating breakfast, although I've started it just fine at below zero temps without the heater.

[CaptBeach]

Like I said above...older Powerstrokes and Cummins ROCK...newer ones...ummm...not so much...thanks to Uncle Sam and the newer regs.

[peregrine]

My primary pro about diesel is the engine will last you 1million miles, if you change the fluids regularly along with other regular maintenance.
I have a Duramax.

[ELB]

+1 on diesel IF you plan to pull something heavy. Gas engine just does not seem to have the guts. Also, if you pull something heavy regularly, make sure you have the brakes and tranny to go with it. Almost any engine can eventually get a load moving, but it is much more important to be able to STOP. A powerful gas engine with standard transmission and brakes is not a good choice if you tow heavy loads often. As noted above, diesels are made for towing and hauling and seem to usually come with factory towing packages.

I had a Dodge with a Cummins 5.9L in it, heavy transmission with extra cooler, exhaust braking, the works. Had been a travel trailer puller, and it was a wonderful beast. Unfortunately it got T-boned and totalled the body on it. I have a Ford F350 four door, good truck most of the time but scares me when I have to tow a horse trailer or pull my tractor. Luckily don't need to do that often.

[ELB]

Also, it has been my experience that a diesel engined pick-up will bury the front end in soft dirt sand -- diesel engines are much heavier than gas, and without a load in the back, the weight distribution is squirrelly (something to remember when braking hard in the rain).

My VFD uses diesel-engined chevy pickups for brushfirefighting, and they work great in the sand, but the also have a much more even weight distribution than a regular pick up because of the skid unit in the back (skid unit = pump, watertank with 250-300 gallons, hoses, misc gear), plus we have "body armor" on them -- massive front bumper/grill, heavy side rails, cage around the skid unit. They go great thru the brush, run over bushes and small trees, and rarely, rarely ever get stuck in sand.

If you do not foresee lots of towing or hauling really heavy loads in the bed, I would stick to gas engine.

[johnwellington]

Got me a diesel in 08. Don't know why I didn't do it 20 yrs ago. 4 door dually, gets better mileage & is nicer to drive than any truck I,ve had. If i was looking now it'd be for a good used 1, with less emissions junk to deal with.

[MikeNV]

I've had diesel trucks since 1992... hauled horses back then.

Now have a 2005 GMC 2500HD Duramax, this thing rides like a caddy...best driving 4x4 I've ever had. Back in 2005 GMC ran their friends and family sale and I picked up the truck for 33k,(which was cheaper than I bought a Ford F250 PowerStroke diesel in 1996) now they're over 50k.

Now when I got it in 2005 diesel was less than regular gas, and then the govt. put restrictions on the sulfur so diesel had to be refined more...causing the price to go above gas prices.

I get an honest 18.5 mpg (at 65mph) in higher elevations 4-7000 ft above sea level (which has an effect on diesel engines economy) and get about 24-26mpg at just above sea level. I have about 50k on it now without any major issues, oil changes cost me about $75 for Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Oil and about $60 bucks for fuel filters every 15k-18k miles, of course with diesel fuel you don't want to run your tank less than 1/4 or you'll be changing fuel filters more often. 2005-2006 GMC models were the last years without the new emissions equipment, I'm told they are highly sort after.

Now what I really want is a Toyota Hi-Lux in diesel...35mpg. I had a 2001 Toyota Tacoma also a great truck and highly recommended without reservations.

[jipel]

I currently own a 2001, f250, 7.3 powerstroke. Before that a 89, and 95 both with 7.3s. I have also owned trucks with gas motors. Not much difference in maintenance with the exception of higher quantitys with the diesels. My current truck has 242,800 something miles on it and runs like a top. I get on average 15mpg. It has a enclosed tool bed on it, and I use it for my daily work truck. (Commercial heating and air conditioning.) Really depends on how much you are going to use it, what you are going to be using it for, and how long you plan on keeping it... How many gas motors do you see with 300,000+? Now, if I was going to buy new, I dont know what I would do... There is so much emissions crap on the new ones its insane!

[mdr]

Thanks, everyone, for your advice. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences with a diesel. I myself have no experience with diesels but three of of wife's brothers all have Duramaxes('03, '04 & '05). They seem to like them and they all have camping trailers so I guess a diesel makes sense for them. Thanks again.

[Yooper75]

I love my 6.0 since I did the EGR delete, straight pipe exhaust, and put custom tunes in it, before that I was ready to give it away. My F350 can tow a house and get 13mpg doing it and I am getting 18mpg cruising down the highway with the cruise set at 63mph. Keep up on the PM's and they are pretty much rock solid engines but if you neglect them at all they turn into money pits in a hury. Fuel is not really an issue if you travel interstates but if you like to cruise back roads it can get a little hairy especially if you get a tank of crappy diesel from a station that doesn't sell a lot of it the town that I live there are only three stations that I will buy fuel at. You also have to think about winter and plugging it in, my truck will start down to about -25* but after that it's a roll of the dice on if it will turn over and pop off with out being plugged in.

[mooseman100]

2003 2500 duramx work truck. rides like a car, 19 mpg around town. I disagree with additional maintenace, you can go longer on hte oils changes, does not run as hot as gas so oil does not break down as quickly. Fuel filter is a screw on can change about every 15000 miles or so. I can put a pallet of paverson the back and barely even know it is there, appx 3000#. That would cruch my 150 silverado. No comparison from a 2003 2500 to a 2011 1500. If you are going to pull or haul anything go with diesel.

[tomsdaname]

I will give Ford a big fat thumbs up on there new gasoline engine lineup for trucks...All new,,,better power and better milage...That new EcoBoost twin turbo f150 will outrun and outpull everything in its class,,,toyota included.....Check it out on youtube....

[Mudcat]

I bought a 1 year old Dodge W250 in 93 with an automatic and the Cummins diesel it had 45,000 miles on it. Drove it for 17 years I upgraded most everything I could on that truck. It would outrun any of the newer trucks and get much better mileage doing it. Usually 23-25 mpg. The truck was totaled with 498,333 miles on it last year, the motor now is in a Ford. I had replaced head gasket 1 time, turbo 1 time upgraded. Auto tranny at 160,000 with yes a upgraded transmission and converter. 8 sets of brakes, 10 u joints, 1 slip yoke, 7 sets of tires, 1 exhaust, 1 thermostat, 1 exhaust manifold, 1 front seal and quite a few seat covers. I loved that truck and hauled our junk (off road toys) all over the country with it. I almost always ran a mixture of 80% diesel and 20% used motor oil that I would mix and filter in a tank in the bed.
I would buy another in a heart beat if I could find one in good shape. But I have no desire to have one of these newer ones I don't care what brand.

[s4141]

I'm on my third diesel now, all Fords. They are assembled, shipped, and paid for without anyones tax dollar unlike a certain other brand or two......

IMHO, any diesel is a decent engine. I do agree that the engine itself can go for a million miles. But the perpherals cannot. Glow Plugs, Injectors, fuel pumps, oil pumps are rather expensive to have replaced, especially my 03 Ford wth the 6.0. The engineers brilliantly placed the oilpump, usually located ouside ofe engine insie the engine. $2600 later it was fixed. Then the injectors, then....

PArts are expensive. Fuel filters, air filters, and oilchanges weren't cheap. 3.5 gallons of oil. WHen fram got around to making filters for the engine, it lowered costs.

My 2010 I got Fords full maintenence plan. They do everything. IN the end run, it works out. Also find a good diesel repair shop other than a dealer.Much less expensive. Ford wanted at least $1500 to change one injector. I found a reputable shop who did it for $500 and had it done in three hours.

If you tow alot, diesel makes sense. If not, seriously consider the gas engine option.

[Doug Little]

Just to chime in a bit here. I have a Ford F-250 with the Powerstroke engine. It is about the most reliable vehicle I've had in 40 plus years of driving. If you keep the oil changed and pay reasonable attention to the engine, they will last for a really long time. I do a lot of towing with mine (horses) and have really not taken particularly good care of it, but it run and runs. I have a 4x4 and this thing has literally climbed mountain and crossed deserts for me (no, I am not talking about paved roads...). I agree that the diesel is a little more expensive, it is loud at times and does require a little more care than a gas engine, but I've put 100k miles on it in 5 years and expect to have it at least another five. If I take a little better care of it, it will likely outlive me.

[The Shadow]

Don't own a Diesel but try to stay abreast of what's available and a couple of comments posted have given a question or two.

What are/is the gas additives being mentioned, and why are they necessary ??

Ford is now making there own Diesel Engine so the long term staying power on them is not a given at the moment, although the write ups have been favorable for it.

One thing that has struck me as funny is why all Diesels use as much oil as they do and the gas ones don't, I would think that if a gas engine used 12-16 quarts of oil that their maintenance/failure rate would be different IE the high mileage longevity of the Diesels.

But then the marketing, selling of vehicles would be different.

[Mayflower]

I've got a 2006 Dodge 2500 (the last of the 5.9 cummins motors, that can run on regular #2 low sulfur diesel and don't have a particulate filter). I couldn't be happier. Maintenance is a little pricier, sure, but the the oil change interval is 7,500 to 15,000 miles, depending on light or heavy service interval. It pulls my trailer like it's not even there, I've got ridiculous amounts of torque, the mileage/fuel cost thing about evens out, and I tend to keep trucks for a long time. With an over 300,000 mi expected service life, I think I may keep this one a LONG time. Seat covers are cheap. I own it free and clear now, and I've still got plenty of life left in it. With a gas truck, I'd probably be thinking about trading now, but that thought has never crossed my mind with the diesel.

The guy I work with has a 'retired' farm truck that his grampa gave him. It's an old 12 valve Cummings that has not long ago passed the million mile mark... engine still going strong... so strong in fact it did a 16.01 second quarter mile last month. After a million miles... a million farm miles... yes the truck is a little loose, brake pedal droops a bit, bit that old diesel is still rattling away like a top.

Diesel trucks in my AO are highly desirable and fetch a premium price, but also hold there value and can be sold without much effort.

My last truck was an older 6.2 diesel. I didn't like getting the fuel on my hands during fill-ups, making sure a station carried the fuel to begin with (not a big issue here at home as almost all stations have diesel), but by golly when it came time to pull something... look out!

I'm running a 5.7 Dodge now, but would not hesitate to go back to diesel.

The acceleration that these new Dodge and Chevy diesels have is unbelievable. I've had a 5.9 Cummins walk away from my 15 second Hemi on many occasion. So if killer street performance is a goal, wow can these trucks move. I'm talking a full size truck capable of sub 12 second passes and 140MPH top speeds. It's almost a plug and play arrangement, the more you pay, the faster you go.

If you've never had a diesel and/or have a need for the benefits that a diesel can offer... do like I did and just go for it... only live once... just realize that the premium powerplant will come with certain caveats.

[Netpackrat]

I'm on my third diesel now, all Fords. They are assembled, shipped, and paid for without anyones tax dollar unlike a certain other brand or two......

Oh, really??? (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/12/blue-ops-the-clandestine-bailout-of-ford/)

[s4141]

As far as I am aware of, they didn't get bailed out like GM did. I would like to hear if they did.
My gripe with Ford is that it seems their engines are assembled in Mexico. My truck may be "assembled in Kentucky" but the parts weren't. Oh well. Need a truck anyway.

I preferred Fords 7.3. That was/is a real good motor.

My 2010 Ford is a bit sluggish taking off. Too much turbo lag? Dodges don't seem to have this problem.

[fldback]

As far as I am aware of, they didn't get bailed out like GM did. I would like to hear if they did.
My gripe with Ford is that it seems their engines are assembled in Mexico. My truck may be "assembled in Kentucky" but the parts weren't. Oh well. Need a truck anyway.

I preferred Fords 7.3. That was/is a real good motor.

My 2010 Ford is a bit sluggish taking off. Too much turbo lag? Dodges don't seem to have this problem.

IIRC Ford arranged to have bailout money available but never took any of it.

[Netpackrat]

IIRC Ford arranged to have bailout money available but never took any of it.

My understanding is that they got a different deal that was somewhat less outrageous. I doubt if I'll be buying anything new for a long time (just finished paying off the wife's Jeep last month, yay no car debt), but I've had to re-think my position on buying American after this latest episode. As much as it would pain me to buy something with a Japanese name, next time I'll probably buy a Toyota that is made in the US, in a right-to-work state by non-union labor. Or used. Fortunately, all of our rigs (including the 1973 pickup) are still in their prime. 8^)

[Yooper75]

Oh, really??? (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/12/blue-ops-the-clandestine-bailout-of-ford/)

Looks to me like they are the same as any corporation out there that uses a credit line to make things run on a daily basis so they have inventory and cover possible cash shortages they may run into. Our six lumber yards use a line of credit so we can buy inventory and cover cash shortages because accounts recievables can be slow and you can run out of cash in a hurry when you have an average inventory of 4.2 million dollars sitting on the ground with more coming in daily to cover what's being sold. The only difference I see is they used the goverment instead of a traditional bank.

[s4141]

No harm buying Toyota or Nissan. They seem to be more made in America than some things. I would like to see Toyota make a diesel truck.

I wanted to hang on to my old diesel, but things were starting to go wrong with it more quickly and parts/repair were expensive. Plus a total of $15,000 off list price was pretty convincing on my new one especially with my trade added in after that.

[BillUA]

Have owned 2 Dodge CUMMINS powered trucks and have been very happy with them. The CUMMINS is an inline 6 CYL and hits max torque just off idle to get the load moving. The Dmax and Fords are 8 cylinders with many more moving parts and take more rpms to get the load moving. Not a biggie, just different laws of mechanics.

No matter which new diesel, deleting the EGR crap will help to overall longevity and mileage..

[texvet45]

We have had 3 diesel Fords on the farm and a VW Jetta TDI and love them all. The first was a 92 F350 with the 7.3L International, pre turbo engine. Great, simple engine that you did not need a computer to work on it. It would pull, but not fast. The 2000 F350 dually has the 7.3 L Pwerstroke and from what I hear, it has a good reputation for reliability Mine has 330K on it. I just wish that I got better than 13.5 MPG. Iw will pull anything I need to pull, but my wife's 06 250 with the 6.0 L has a lot of Go to it. It has 380K on that motor.
I always felt that the 7.3 International would be a great SHTF motor as it is simple to keep running and tolerant of less than perfect fuel.

[ericb]

Likes:

Diesel
Powerful
Big

Dislikes:

Too heavy for offroading outside of fire roads and mild trails.
Long Wheelbases
Did I mention heavy?

[s4141]

Someone put a volkswagen diesel motor in a Samurai as his off-road vehicle. That thing could go a lot of places.

My 6.0 Ford got 20MPG. Didn't do anything to it. My 7.3 blew out the clutch after 40,000 miles. Ford told me that the clutch couldn't handle the 7.3 which led to an interesting choice of words from me. True or not I don't really know, but looking back I'm surprised I didn't jump to a Dodge at that time.

[AlexSpartan]

Psh. F350s are nice and pretty, but for the man who really needs to crush or move everything in his way, the F650 is the way to go.

17203

My dad owns one. It's ridiculous.

[NedMan]

Had an 81 Audi 5cyl diesel, an 06 Jeep Liberty CRD, then a 99 F250 7.3 and now a 28hp 3cyl Jinma farm tractor. I was surprised how much the mpg was affected by tire choice and RPM on the F250. At the end of the day, with the trucks at least, I suspect that gear ratio has more effect on mpg than anything else.

No matter what diesels I've owned, they all seem to love 1800 rpm in general for fuel economy.