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combat engineer
07-27-2005, 08:34 PM
I'm looking for some good exercises to combat the "hunch" for over-developed pecs in relation to the back. I don't currently have this problem, but I worry that at the rate I'm going, it's just a matter of time. I try to stretch my chest a little extra, but I would like to have well developed back muscles for both appearance and overall physical health/conditioning. I do pull-ups regularly and an exercise where you sit in a chair and lay your chest on your knees, bringing weights from your feet up to your side (as if you were flying). I do hang-cleans also. Anyone have any others?

michael
07-27-2005, 10:30 PM
It's hard to beat pull-up, IMO. I do them as THE staple of my back training. I would concentrate on them over anything else, progressing up in sets and reps. I also like Deadlift's a lot, and you can also do bent-over rows, T-bar rows and smiliar exercises. The back is very important in combative fitness and should be worked HARD.

Leo Daher
07-27-2005, 10:49 PM
Balance in your pulling/pushing muscles IS vital. A lot of folks tend to overwork their pecs, due to the popularity of the bench press, and end up with all sorts of problems. I'm with Michael both on the importance of a strong back and on pull-ups being the exercise of choice. Since you already do those, it might be a good idea to challenge yourself by changing your grip (going wide, for instance, makes it harder) or adding weight with the help of a belt. Make sure to consciously squeeze your shoulder blades together while pulling up - that is a vital part of the exercise.

Tegnerfan
07-28-2005, 03:16 AM
Any upper back exercises will help to balance it out,as I had the same problem.Most people are usually stronger in either the pushing or pulling exercises, so this is where the problem begins.Pulldowns are good, as are seated cable rows.I have a great home gym row unit that allows you to perform bent-over rows safely, as these can be tricky.But a great low-tech option for a modestly equipped home gym is the good old one arm dumbbell row.If that is the only weight exercise you can do for your back, you can't go wrong with it.

combat engineer
07-28-2005, 07:34 AM
I do the one arm dumbell rows that Tengerfan mentioned also, I just forgot to list it.

I really need to expand my pull-up types. I consider myself fairly proficient at the underhand grip, but not so much at the overhand grip. I am definitely lacking on the very wide grip :o . I work out at home so I am mainly limited to free weight (which I like better anyways). I do have a "power tower" that I do my pullups/dips on. I usually do 2-3 sets of underhand pullups, 10-12 per set. Occasionally I will try the wide grip, 2 or 3 at a time until failure.

Paco
07-28-2005, 08:56 AM
Somewhere in the past year, I read re training out of the "hunch" - which I suffer from a bit, that LOTs of lat training can also contribute to the hunch pulling your shoulders downward.

This training article promoted the training of the upper back targeting the traps and nearby muscles with a whole range of trap excercises. Some obvious like shrugs but others I wasn't familiar with. Those were along the lines of a lateral raise with light dumbells that you performed while lying face to the board but head up on an incline bench. You lat raise the dumbells to the front and to the side like the reverse flye.
I'll try to see if that article is in the basement archives.

Vinnie Moscaritolo
07-28-2005, 09:53 AM
no weight training workout (unless you have a major injury) should go without the following:

1) SQUATS.

2) DEADLIFTS.

then you can pick about benches and smaller muscle groups.
learn how to do those two properly.

end of story.

Vinnie Moscaritolo
07-28-2005, 09:55 AM
now that I said that.. let me say a few things about pullups.
they are practical exercise, in that you use those muscles when
pulling your self up.. but skip the old behind the neck universal wide grip version.. give your rotator cuff a break.

panchofreud
07-28-2005, 10:31 AM
+1 on the deadlifts. Try doing them with a keg or sandbags, etc. in order to force yourself to hug an object as you move.

mk86fcc
07-28-2005, 10:45 AM
One-arm dumbbell rows (already mentioned), lat pull downs, seated row - these comprise my "back group" - YMMV.

Leo Daher
07-28-2005, 11:57 AM
but skip the old behind the neck universal wide grip version.. give your rotator cuff a break.

Just to make clear, since I was the one who first suggested wide grip pull-ups - I never pull behind the neck and don't recommend it. No matter what grip, I pull to the chest.

combat engineer,

Since you're used to chin-ups (underhand grip), you might want to transition to a regular overhand grip (about shoulder width) before going wider.

Vinnie Moscaritolo
07-28-2005, 12:37 PM
when pulling to the chest, I found that using a small (drag race steering wheel) handle works, lean back slightly and lift your chest while doing the pulldown to the front..

combat engineer
07-28-2005, 08:16 PM
Thanks guys, like Leo said, I don't do "behind the neck" pullups at all, or lat pull downs for that matter.

I agree with vinnie that compound exercises are very important to a good workout routine, thats why I do them ;)

panchofreud, are you refering to deadlifts or squats? I would think it very difficult to do a proper deadlift with a keg. I guess what I am saying, is could you explain more the technique for hugging something rather than using an olympic bar.

PaulDmitrios
07-28-2005, 08:27 PM
In my opionion pullups are about the best for upper back development. A cable row, being careful of your lower back might do well for you too, especially since with proper form, your shoulder blades pull together and you are straightening your back as a part of the exercise.

Back to the pull ups - vary the width, both over hand and underhand (chin-up) grips. And, as everyone has pointed out, avoid behind the neck stuff.

If you are finding your pull-ups becoming too easy :D you can try this - take a wide grip and then pull up to one side and then to the other, trying to chin to first one side and then the other. It's a rock climbing workout exercise, and prep work for the one-arm pull-up.

Kobra
07-28-2005, 09:21 PM
I warm up with pull-ups, move to lat pull-downs, go to seated rows, and then finish up with flies to nail the rear delts as well as the rhomboids.

One thing that I learned, that I didn't know (to my shame), is that muscles cannot push. Muscles only contract. It has now become a pet peeve of mine to mention this anytime I hear even the slightest reference to muscles pushing anything. ;)

Kobra

michael
07-29-2005, 12:20 AM
I agree that deadlifts and squats are very important, and to NEVER do pull-ups behind your neck. I do like to vary my hand width on each set, and also do both overhand and underhand. You must do all of these to be well rounded in pull-ups. I don't see a place for pulldowns with a cable at all, unless you cannot complete a pull-up. They are much easier and many bodybuilders can lift an insane amount of weight with pulldowns without being able to do one pull-up.

Cold War Scout
07-29-2005, 04:31 AM
I believe there is nothing wrong with doing cable pulldowns also. Kind of like the difference between doing situps and doing leg raises. Each hits the same basic muscle area from a different perspective and different direction of motion.

Functionally pull-ups are way more valuable. And I suck at them :-(

War story: About 13 years ago I hurt my ower back real bad doing upright rows, simultaneously with only 30 pound dumbbells in each hand. Something went twang that still affects me to this day. I still do upright rows but only with one dumbbell at a time.

P.S. Also saw a guy at gym the other day doing pull-ups up to his waist!!! Pretty damn impressive. When I talked to him he told me he trains with weights also. Nothing replaces weight training for developing strength.

Vinnie Moscaritolo
07-29-2005, 07:15 AM
Kind of like the difference between doing situps and doing leg raises.

both of which predominately only work hip flexors.. but you knew that?

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
07-29-2005, 10:21 AM
Definitely agree on squats and deadlifts.

IMHO they definitely help with what for a goodly % of the population and for people concerned with the question presented here is the true underlying cause: tight hip flexors which tend to pull the hips into a forward tilt. THIS I think is quite a key point.

When the hips tilt forward:
1) the viscera tend to spill forward causing a protruding belly,
2) the distance between the pelvic crest and the ribs shortens, leading to a tight lower back and increased pressure on the discs of the vertabrae in question
3) the shoulders tend to round forward and the elbows to point out instead of back and
4) the head hangs forward, with the ears in front of the shoulders instead of above them which leads to tight trap/neck muscles

Greatly assisting stretching the hip flexors is anything that works peak contraction on the other side i.e. any motion resembling , , , ahem , , , sending the last inches home.

Crafty Dog

PaulDmitrios
07-29-2005, 11:16 AM
CWS - "P.S. Also saw a guy at gym the other day doing pull-ups up to his waist!!! Pretty damn impressive."

Was he doing a muscle up? I do them sometimes if I have access to a pull-up bar with no ceiling overhead to get in the way. That's another outstanding exercise and highly functional at that. If you can do 5+ pull-ups you can do a muscle-up. Guys who are really strong can straight arm themselves up into a support on the bar, and it is indeed impressive.

Most of the crazy pull-up variations I know came from a year in college that I took a gymnastics class. A good friend was a coach and challenged me to do the workouts he has his 14 year old elite girls doing. I learned that 28 is too old to start gymnastics. I have also never found an upper body workout that compares to pommel-horse training - strength, endurance, flexibility, kinesthetic awareness...it has it all. If I ever have enough space I'm buying one for my own gym (and a set of rings!)

Tegnerfan
07-29-2005, 02:47 PM
Don't forget about modified chin ups for those who lack the strength to do regular chins.It's a great way to work the upper back and biceps!

Cold War Scout
07-29-2005, 04:30 PM
both of which predominately only work hip flexors.. but you knew that?

I guess I didn't know that because I was always under the impression that situps (especially bent knees) work the abdominals. In fact since that is what hurts me after doing situps and leg raises type exercises, I am comfortable that I am getting a good abs workout with the two.

This si also a great contraption for more ab workouts.

Cold War Scout
07-29-2005, 04:33 PM
CWS - "P.S. Also saw a guy at gym the other day doing pull-ups up to his waist!!! Pretty damn impressive."

Was he doing a muscle up? I do them sometimes if I have access to a pull-up bar with no ceiling overhead to get in the way. That's another outstanding exercise and highly functional at that. If you can do 5+ pull-ups you can do a muscle-up. Guys who are really strong can straight arm themselves up into a support on the bar, and it is indeed impressive.

Most of the crazy pull-up variations I know came from a year in college that I took a gymnastics class. A good friend was a coach and challenged me to do the workouts he has his 14 year old elite girls doing. I learned that 28 is too old to start gymnastics. I have also never found an upper body workout that compares to pommel-horse training - strength, endurance, flexibility, kinesthetic awareness...it has it all. If I ever have enough space I'm buying one for my own gym (and a set of rings!)

Perhaps that was what it was. I have never seen one before.

michael
07-29-2005, 04:38 PM
Muscle-ups are an awesome exercise and a benchmark in the CrossFit method. They are very difficult for most people to do, but are a good measure of your strength to bodyweight ratio, which is critical, IMHO. As I mentioned before, many muscleheads can lift an insane amount of weight in bench press or pull-downs, but couldn't climb a wall to save themselves from fire if their life depended upon it. Functional is where it's at, IMHO. I do some shaping exercises because, like most males, I want to look like I workout, but I spend the majority of my time working functional stuff.

Marc, good stuff, and I'll work on that stretch the next time I'm driving the last bit home.;)

Cold War Scout
07-29-2005, 04:43 PM
Muscle-ups are an awesome exercise and a benchmark in the CrossFit method. They are very difficult for most people to do, but are a good measure of your strength to bodyweight ratio, which is critical, IMHO. As I mentioned before, many muscleheads can lift an insane amount of weight in bench press or pull-downs, but couldn't climb a wall to save themselves from fire if their life depended upon it. Functional is where it's at, IMHO. I do some shaping exercises because, like most males, I want to look like I workout, but I spend the majority of my time working functional stuff.

Marc, good stuff, and I'll work on that stretch the next time I'm driving the last bit home.;)

But if they can hit you hard enough to kill you with one punch, is that not sufficiently functional for the task at hand?

Paul Sharp
07-30-2005, 08:01 AM
I like to structure the work for your back in a manner taught by Paul Chek.

One day do all vertical pulling exercises, the next time do all horizontal pulling exercises.

In a nutshell, a day of pullups/chins and a day of rowing.

One day involves pinching the scapula back and down. The next day would involve pinching the scapula up and back.

Do your shrugs standing upright and with a slight, (45 degree), forward lean. 4-5 sets of 6-8 reps each variation. Usually do the standard shrugs on the same day as your horizintal/deadlift work as it is less stressful on the erectors.

michael
07-30-2005, 08:28 AM
But if they can hit you hard enough to kill you with one punch, is that not sufficiently functional for the task at hand?

It depends upon the task at hand. Firstly, it is rare for anyone to be killed by one punch. Sure, it's possible, but highly unlikely. Human bodies are reamarkably resilient to injury. Secondly, being in pursuit of functional fitness involves more than being able to throw a punch. It I can throw the best punch in the world but am unable to climb a wall to escape a fire, climb a tree to flee from a wild boar or other purposes, how functional is my fitness? We must be prepared to perform on a number of levels for more than one purpose. What if I break a hip when I fall down because I don't know how to fall or roll properly, or drop dead from a myocardial infarction because my cardio-respiratory system is flawed? Functional fitness is a multi-pronged effort.

Vinnie Moscaritolo
07-30-2005, 08:30 AM
was always under the impression that situps (especially bent knees) work the abdominals.

not incredibly well. you would be way better off doing a cable crunch.. (google is your friend here) in fact I would argue that a bent knee situp is one of the worst things you can do to your lower back. (and I would be correct)

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
07-30-2005, 09:19 AM
Years ago the "Health for Life" booklet "Legendary Abs" really helped my understanding of how to train abs.

Cold War Scout
07-30-2005, 09:49 AM
It depends upon the task at hand. Firstly, it is rare for anyone to be killed by one punch. Sure, it's possible, but highly unlikely. Human bodies are reamarkably resilient to injury. Secondly, being in pursuit of functional fitness involves more than being able to throw a punch. It I can throw the best punch in the world but am unable to climb a wall to escape a fire, climb a tree to flee from a wild boar or other purposes, how functional is my fitness? We must be prepared to perform on a number of levels for more than one purpose. What if I break a hip when I fall down because I don't know how to fall or roll properly, or drop dead from a myocardial infarction because my cardio-respiratory system is flawed? Functional fitness is a multi-pronged effort.

My point was missed. I have seen people get hit with one punch so hard that they were out of the fight from that second on. Maybe not literally dead, but the fight was over. The guys who hit them were not guys who did dozens of pullups a day. They were either muscle heads or street thugs. Yet for the task at hand, hitting somebody extremely hard, they were up to the task. And the fact that they could not climb walls did not affect that moment one bit.

While it may not be all around fitness, it certainly can have its advantages.

Cold War Scout
07-30-2005, 10:05 AM
not incredibly well. you would be way better off doing a cable crunch.. (google is your friend here) in fact I would argue that a bent knee situp is one of the worst things you can do to your lower back. (and I would be correct)

Old habits are hard to break.

When I stopped doing situps some years back and started doing only crunches (because that was the trendy thing to do), my one-minute situps count on physical fitness tests started dropping. About 4 months ago I stopped doing just crunches, and added situps back into my routine. My situps count has gone back up again, and crunches seem to be easier now. I have never had a back discomfort problem with situps or lying down crunches. But I have not clasped my hands behind my neck while doing these for many, many years either.

Besides, if exercises that are essentially situps are still in both the USMC, U.S. Army, and British Royal marines training repertoire, that's good enough for me.

If I am ever laid up in a hospital with a bad back caused by situps, then you all told me so! :-)

Paul Sharp
07-30-2005, 11:04 AM
Re; situps.

Louis Simmons, Dave Tate, John Davies and a host of other coaches use bent-leg, straight leg and every other version of a situp in their programs with no issues.

I use bent-leg, straight leg, spread eagle and various forms of situps, since reading Louis Simmons articles, and discussing this with him at length I believe Louis and the athletes at Westside Barbell Club are correct.

Do what works for you, but bear in mind that issues such as muscular imbalance might have more to do with this than your version of a situp.


CWS,
Not to go to far down this sidebar, but, would you attribute the one shot stops to the size/strength of the guy or that the other guy never saw it coming?

I've had a few one shot stops, 100% of the time, they never saw it coming. They knew something was going to happen, just like I did...., I just moved first.

Belisarius
07-30-2005, 11:53 AM
Great posts. I think you need both bodyweight and absolute strength and, generally speaking, for functional purposes you want the "pulling" movements to be max reps with bodyweight/bodyweight plus your normal gear and the "pushing" movements to be about explosively throwing as much weight as you can away from your core. I think that sometimes the devotees of the pure-bodyweight movement assume that your opponent will weigh the same as you do.

I believe a good fitness battery will include some one-shot stuff like 1RM (or 5RM, or whatever you want to use) lifts and the vertical jump as well as a functional bodyweight test, with pullups probably being the best for that. Add a 400m sprint or equivalent 1-minute total nuking and a 1-20 minute test like a 5k and you have the makings of a good generalist.

Cold War Scout
07-30-2005, 12:27 PM
CWS,
Not to go to far down this sidebar, but, would you attribute the one shot stops to the size/strength of the guy or that the other guy never saw it coming?

I've had a few one shot stops, 100% of the time, they never saw it coming. They knew something was going to happen, just like I did...., I just moved first.

I think that you are probably correct that the other person was not prepared for what was about to happen. The very few that saw it coming still did not have time to react.

But the viciousness of the blows, fist on face/head, were still very powerful. Being up to the task is situation dependent. If you are in a confined area which you cannot run away from with a 400 pound bench press musclehead, the fact that he cannot scale a wall or run a 440 is of little consequence at that moment.

Paul Sharp
07-30-2005, 12:30 PM
Hell yeah, you're right on with that. If I was given the choice, take a sucker punch from A) Adam Archuletta or B) Woody Allen....


I'm going with Woody. Its still going to hurt but I don't think I need to take this further....

Vinnie Moscaritolo
07-31-2005, 09:39 AM
Besides, if exercises that are essentially situps are still in both the USMC, U.S. Army, and British Royal marines training repertoire, that's good enough for me.

and thats because large organizations are quick to learn and improve their training? I guess that must by why they teach CQB the same way Gabe and JAK do.. or would this would have something to do with the 3(or was it 4) monkey theory..

actually the Corp does crunches last time I checked.. (someone correct me) with the following:


Abdominal Crunch. The goal of the abdominal crunch event is for a Marine to execute as many proper and complete crunches within the prescribed time limit. The procedures are:
(1) 2-minute time limit.

(2) On a flat surface, Marines will lie flat on their back with shoulder blades touching the deck, knees will be bent, and both feet will be flat on the deck.

(3) The arms will be folded across the chest or rib cage with no gap existing between the arms and chest/rib cage. Both arms must remain in constant contact with chest/rib cage throughout the exercise. A single repetition consists of raising the upper body from the starting position until both forearms or elbows simultaneously touch the thighs, and then returning to the starting position with the shoulder blades touching the deck.

(4) The buttocks will remain in constant contact with the deck throughout the event. No arching of the lower back or lifting the buttocks is permitted.

(5) An assistant may be used to hold a Marine's legs or feet, at or below the knees in whatever manner that is most comfortable for the Marine. Kneeling or sitting on the Marine’s feet is permitted.

(6) A repetition will be counted when an accurate and complete abdominal crunch is performed.


in any case, once you lift your back off the ground more than a few inches you are employing your hip flexors. now there are many uses for these. but I would prefer doing kicks on a light bag to improve leg/hip strength..

anyhow, if you are graded on sit-ups and or shooting pieces of paper that don't move, then I guess you need to do these..

Cold War Scout
07-31-2005, 09:50 AM
and thats because large organizations are quick to learn and improve their training? I guess that must by why they teach CQB the same way Gabe and JAK do.. or would this would have something to do with the 3(or was it 4) monkey theory..

actually the Corp does crunches last time I checked.. (someone correct me) with the following:



in any case, once you lift your back off the ground more than a few inches you are employing your hip flexors. now there are many uses for these. but I would prefer doing kicks on a light bag to improve leg/hip strength..

anyhow, if you are graded on sit-ups and or shooting pieces of paper that don't move, then I guess you need to do these..

I wonder why the Marines call it the abdominal crunch and not the hip flexor crunch? And the description sure sounds to me like the back goes more than a few inches off the ground. Awfully similar to sitting up, even if not sitting up all the way.

Like I said, when I started doing crunches only (especially the crunch machine only ones), my situps count went down. When I started doing situps again, my situps count and my crunches count went back up. At the present time I have no interest in definition, muscle isolation or washboard abs. I am interested in working the whole core. Situps/crunches are but one of a number of basic exercises I do for the general core area. And if somewhere along the way in a situp there is a transition of muscles used from abdominal to hip flexor, hey that's even better. Multiple muscles being worked out in synch with each other. Having to work together as a team. That's what I'm talking about!

I believe the Neanderthal U.S. Navy SEALs still do situps.

michael
07-31-2005, 07:29 PM
My point was missed. I have seen people get hit with one punch so hard that they were out of the fight from that second on. Maybe not literally dead, but the fight was over. The guys who hit them were not guys who did dozens of pullups a day. They were either muscle heads or street thugs. Yet for the task at hand, hitting somebody extremely hard, they were up to the task. And the fact that they could not climb walls did not affect that moment one bit.

While it may not be all around fitness, it certainly can have its advantages.

Of course. There will always be those that can drop someone with one "lucky" punch, and they might not work out at all. I've seen this happen many times too, but I've also had to chase them and pull myself over a high fence or wall to bring them down.

michael
07-31-2005, 07:31 PM
Great posts. I think you need both bodyweight and absolute strength and, generally speaking, for functional purposes you want the "pulling" movements to be max reps with bodyweight/bodyweight plus your normal gear and the "pushing" movements to be about explosively throwing as much weight as you can away from your core. I think that sometimes the devotees of the pure-bodyweight movement assume that your opponent will weigh the same as you do.

I believe a good fitness battery will include some one-shot stuff like 1RM (or 5RM, or whatever you want to use) lifts and the vertical jump as well as a functional bodyweight test, with pullups probably being the best for that. Add a 400m sprint or equivalent 1-minute total nuking and a 1-20 minute test like a 5k and you have the makings of a good generalist.

I agree completely, and this is an excellent summation of the requirements for overall combative fitness. Bodyweight-only exercises are excellent for developing overall body skill, balance, agility and endurance, but will not suffice for dealing with individuals who are much larger, unless your skills are vastly superior and you can use what you have better than the other guy.

combat engineer
07-31-2005, 08:05 PM
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but even though the Marines call it a "crunch" it is very much a full situp. In fact, from what I understand (from listening to friends who are in the Marines), you have to break the "vertical plane". They actually have to situp until their back is perpendicular to the deck.

Does anyone have any more info on the "muscle-up" exercise? I was trying to figure out how it is done.

Wylycoyte
07-31-2005, 08:39 PM
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but even though the Marines call it a "crunch" it is very much a full situp. In fact, from what I understand (from listening to friends who are in the Marines), you have to break the "vertical plane". They actually have to situp until their back is perpendicular to the deck.

Does anyone have any more info on the "muscle-up" exercise? I was trying to figure out how it is done.

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-video/eva_up.wmv

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-video/muscle-up_loyd.wmv

Leo Daher
07-31-2005, 09:12 PM
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-video/muscle-up_loyd.wmv

That's pretty much a complete upper body workout, combining pulling and pushing motions. Great stuff.

(Cool song too :D )

Kobra
07-31-2005, 09:59 PM
I'm really bummed now that my gym doesn't have rings. Someone should open a gym called "Old Skool Gym" where all the killer tools of all over conditioning are implemented.

Kobra

Wylycoyte
07-31-2005, 10:58 PM
That's pretty much a complete upper body workout, combining pulling and pushing motions. Great stuff.

(Cool song too :D )

Yeah, it sure is. I like hopping back and forth between the pullover machine and the squat rack when I want to bang out a workout in less than 20 minutes that fries out my whole body...the muscle ups could easily be substituted for the upper body portion with great results.

I like NIN, too. :D


I'm really bummed now that my gym doesn't have rings. Someone should open a gym called "Old Skool Gym" where all the killer tools of all over conditioning are implemented.

Kobra

Make a loop enclosing a short length of pipe on the end of a rope. I haven't tried this yet, but I assume that 2 of these hung from a tree limb or something suitable (a power rack seems like it'd be too short, unfortunately) would enable you to do muscle ups like those shown in the clips.

Or you could just pony up and get some of these:

http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/frames.asp

combat engineer
08-01-2005, 03:52 PM
That looks HARD! Now if I can only find/make some rings...

Cold War Scout
08-01-2005, 03:58 PM
That looks HARD! Now if I can only find/make some rings...

The same guy I saw doing the muscle ups also had a very long, sturdy nylon strap that he wrapped around the squat rack top bar several times. This strap also had loops on each end, big enough for one to place their hands in/through. The strap hung with the two ends just about waist/chest height or so, and he inserted his hands through the loops and for all practical purposes looked like he was doing stuff on rings. Dips for example. I believe I also saw him doing pullups using the strap for hand grips.

I assumed this strap was something he bought as it definitely did not look homemade.

Lloyd
08-09-2005, 06:43 AM
...pullups... skip the old behind the neck universal wide grip version.. give your rotator cuff a break.

...I never pull behind the neck and don't recommend it...


...I don't do "behind the neck" pullups at all...


...NEVER do pull-ups behind your neck...

Thanks for posting this, all. Back in the late '70s my old HS wrestling coach insisted on this, and I must've not gotten the memo that it was bad. Been having trouble with one rotator cuff for years also, but since this was posted I cut that bit out and it's much better now. Also been able to add 10-40# to five different exercises it was obviously impairing.

HUSS
08-09-2005, 07:35 AM
these are from my work out routine. to vary things up you can do them cross over and vary the width of grip.

over bent rows
bent over rows
reverse flys
rear high delt rows
narrow pull downs
seated lat rows
back extensions
trunk rotations (cable resistance )

PaulDmitrios
08-10-2005, 08:51 AM
you can also muscle up on the ends of parallel bars. The neat thing is, for the ultimate killer upper body workout, once you are up and in a support (the top part of the muscle up), on rings or parallel bars you then press up into a hand stand. Do that and you're cool! :D

Wylycoyte
08-10-2005, 09:41 AM
you can also muscle up on the ends of parallel bars. The neat thing is, for the ultimate killer upper body workout, once you are up and in a support (the top part of the muscle up), on rings or parallel bars you then press up into a hand stand. Do that and you're cool! :D

Now you've done it. I have to try this.