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Alex Nieuwland
06-25-2011, 10:44 PM
Just FYI……

Chris Upchurch and I tried some different types of cheap 115 gr practice ammo at 50 yards on Saturday. I used my RMR Glock 19 and a B-27 target with a folded piece of white letter paper in the middle to provide a consistent aiming point.

Using the bench and a sand bag as a rest, I was able to consistently keep my carry ammo (Winchester Ranger 124 gr. +P) inside the 9-ring of the B-27 target with most on the 4 ¼” x 5” piece of paper. When I switched to the cheap practice ammo, however, it was a different story. The only practice ammo I was able to replicate this performance with was the Russian steel case ammo Chris provided (Wolf). The American-made brass case ammo (WWB, Federal and American Eagle brands) didn’t do nearly as well.

It could, of course, have been me or the combination of my particular gun and ammo, but I thought I’d post it here as food for thought.

barnetmill
06-25-2011, 11:48 PM
This was a question that I had and it is interesting that the wolf was the leader of the pack. I discovered that I have a few boxes of 9mm aluminum blazer. Has anyone tried any of it.

HamburgO
06-26-2011, 12:21 AM
Interesting. At the 50 - 100 yd. distance I've had get the most consistent results with S&B FMJ and Winchester white box (G34 w. RMR, standing, no rest). For me, it's steel case Brown Bear that seems to vary more in performance...

Chris Upchurch
06-26-2011, 07:40 AM
Frankly, this surprised the hell out of me. I've done some long range shooting with my RMRed G17, and didn't detect much variation in accuracy between my carry load (Cor-Bon DPX 115gr +P) and my practice ammo (Wolf 115gr).

I was spotting with some binoculars while Alex was shooting and I watched him put half a dozen rounds of his carry ammo into the center of the target. After verifying his carry load, he switched over to some Winchester White Box. First round kicks up some dirt low and a few feet left of the target. Second hits paper, but misses the silhouette, going over the target's shoulder. Third misses the target high and left. At this point I'm thinking, "What the hell? I know Alex can shoot better than this, I just saw him do it!"

I explain what I'm seeing and give him a mag of Wolf, since I know that shoots through my gun. The cheap Russian stuff shoots about as well as his carry ammo. Then he tries a couple of different brands (American Eagle, Magtech, and Federal). None of them are as bad as the WWB, but none are anywhere near as good as the Wolf or his carry ammo. These are enormous variations in accuracy we're talking about. From groups measured in inches to groups measured in feet at 50 yards.

My conclusion is that if you've got an RMR and want to develop a long range pistol capability (as you should) you MUST absolutely, positively test your carry ammo for accuracy at longer ranges. Both Alex's carry load and mine shot very well, but given the variation this is something you need to verify with your ammo and your gun.

Of course, there's more to long range shooting than the RMR and the ammo, you need to practice as well. Trying to practice long range shooting with some of these loads would be frustrating to the point of being useless. If your usual practice load isn't up to the job, experiment with some different brands. Accuracy does not necessarily seem to be correlated with price or perceived quality. The Wolf stuff is probably the cheapest of all the practice ammo we tried, but it shot the best.

CR Williams
06-26-2011, 08:54 AM
Yesterday I re-sighted a G19 with RMR at a measured 10 yards. Previous to that I had sighted it from a stepped-off estimate of ten yards. The first round of sighting was with carry ammunition. Some high, some right, from standing unsupported. Adjusted it, got to center, took the last three rounds in the magazine and pinged a piece of metal over 100 yards away with the second and third shots. (For reference, I held too high the first time because I expected more bullet drop. Also, I haven't shot over 100 yards with a rifle for over a year now if memory serves. To say I was pleased with this is an understatement.)

After a little more shooting, I checked the zero again, this time after setting up a rest, but I went back to the practice ammo. Group was now low and to the left at the same distance the carry rounds were high and right, and group as well if not better. I did adjust the sight to get back to center and will now have to check zero again with the carry rounds at first opportunity. Then I have to hunt for practice ammo that will be closer to that zero.

barnetmill
06-26-2011, 11:31 AM
A few years ago I fired a 9mm Win white box round into 2x8 pine boards. The projectile deformed considerably which a 9mm mil spec round will not do under such conditions. Perhaps because it is the stronger or more rigid steel jackets of the wolf round that give better long range accuracy compare to the white box ammo?

barnetmill
07-16-2011, 02:58 PM
After replacing the stock glock trigger with a light 3.5 lb trigger I went out today and setup at 96 feet. The accuracy of the federal ammo was like what you would get from a worn out 1911 that rattles when you shake it. I could not get a group from it. Reading about the wolf I tried to score some russian ammo and found monarch instead. The higher recoil suggests more velocity than the federal. Many of the rounds did tear a 1x1.5" hole. But many others were more dispersed into about a 5" group. Some of that is my fault and some is likely not.

I have started to search the internet for ammo made to standard european specifications of 9mm military ammo that the glock was designed to fire. The cheaper American practice stuff appears to not be so useful for longer range shooting. I see that HambergO has good things to say about the S&B loading and it is available for a reasonable price from ammoman. Has anyone else tried it yet? The preferred ammo should have good velocity both in speed and little variation. Bullet should be made to nato/military specifications and give good accuracy in glock barrels.

barnetmill
07-16-2011, 03:17 PM
Are you using 115 or 124 grain loads? I believe the original was designed for 124 grain. That being said...the RMR leads one to shoot at longer distances, that then shows the pathetic quality of the practice ammo they are selling at what were premium prices just a few years ago.
I am currently using 115 grain, but you know for long range I think the 124 grain would be better. When the germans adopted that loading soldiers were still riding horses and I suspect that the heavier wts penetrated better. The heavier bullet while dropping a little more should penetrate better at 100 yards. The ammoman S&B is 115, but I see that they and magtech also make a 124 grain loading as does RWS. When I go shopping tonight I will see what is offered at wally world.

Spiffy
07-16-2011, 07:28 PM
Have you tried the win ranger 9mm nato? Seems to me that the over seas stuff is always hotter than commercial ammo.

barnetmill
07-16-2011, 07:57 PM
Have you tried the win ranger 9mm nato? Seems to me that the over seas stuff is always hotter than commercial ammo.
Hotter for long range shooting seems to be ok. Draw back would be more recoil. The glock should be able to handle it.
No I have not tried the ranger and will look out for some. Do you have any experience with the ranger round?

grimel
07-16-2011, 09:08 PM
Is anyone really surprised cheap FMJ practice ammo is less consistent than quality carry ammo? Consistent, cheap, accurate pick 2 unless you reload.

Spiffy
07-17-2011, 06:49 AM
Hotter for long range shooting seems to be ok. Draw back would be more recoil. The glock should be able to handle it.
No I have not tried the ranger and will look out for some. Do you have any experience with the ranger round?

No I haven't shot any of the Ranger stuff. I mostly use S&B for 9mm and Federal NATO for 45....... unless I get win white box at wally world.

ZMB HNTR
07-18-2011, 07:49 AM
Is anyone really surprised cheap FMJ practice ammo is less consistent than quality carry ammo? Consistent, cheap, accurate pick 2 unless you reload.

No, not really. I don't have any experience with a RMR set-up but I recently purchased a case of BVAC fragible 9mm (it was cheap); at least I get to unwillingly practice malf drills with my XD. :(

debate225
07-18-2011, 07:59 AM
How about Wolf Military Classic 9mm?

barnetmill
07-19-2011, 09:58 PM
..... Even out to 100 yrd, my needs are to hit a torso target of 24x32 quickly and reliably...not to make a 5 inch group. Therefore the WWB gets it done.....
The RMR sight to open other possibilities than just hitting a human torso at one hundred yards. People use to carry revolvers often in .22 kit guns for the trail. I will be retiring in the not too distinct future and a G19 compares quite favorably to a S&W K frame revolver. With the RMR it would with decent ammo be hopefully accurately enough to head shoot game at close range and even take larger animals if needed. I am talking east of the Mississippi River in forested or swampy areas where I hope to travel the water ways and trails probably with no more companionship than a good dog and a backpack.

Mickey Rourke
07-20-2011, 01:44 AM
I think it may be like any other ammo/gun combo: you need to test your gun to find the specific load your gun may like.

Like Trent, I've had the best luck with WWB out to near 100yds with my G26/RDS. Brown Bear shot pretty well with my gun also.

barnetmill
07-23-2011, 09:59 PM
I am still working at relatively close ranges and have not yet found an accurate 9 mm loading. So I decided to do some research which is still in progress. A basic question is how accurate is a run of the mill polygonal Glock barrel? There was a time when I would have odered a LW barrel, but that is not a viable option currently for better accuracy.
Has anyone here determined the diameter of their Glock barrels. I read on the Cast Boolit forum that typical 9 mm european polygonal barrels run .358 and so are oversize. Has anyone done such measurements. I eventually will look for a micrometer and determine that for may glock.

Mickey Rourke
07-24-2011, 12:37 AM
I really haven't had the opportunity to wring out my G26 since I had it milled. I've only shot it a few times at varying distances.

Before milling, I had the JPoint in a dovetal mount on my G19. The combo was consistently under 6" at 60 yds with WWB and Brown Bear from an improvised rest.

Most Glock barrels are accurate enough, I'd say, or we might not even have the Advanced Combat Glock concept.