Vehicle weapons (light or heavy)

[EDELWEISS]

Soooo Im building this "Gun Jeep" which started out with the idea to build a "District 9" Toyota 'gun truck' and has now morphed into a Wrangler in need of aggressive upgrades.

My plan had been to mount two RPKs side by side in the back and another RPK on the passenger side door mount. Then I saw a semi auto M2 at local dealer and I started thinking maybe I should go HEAVY. The M2 means adding new ammo and support gear (links, linker, etc); when I already have stocks for the RPKs. Of course it also means the cost of the M2.

Going with the RPKs means a custom mount, where a stock M2 pintel can be used. It also means I can dismount the RPKs for ground use; but the M2 is pretty much 'locked' to the jeep. As an alternative if sticking with a 50BMG, I could substitute a M82 Barret (probably more $$$) for the semi M2 and that would at least be 'portable'.

?????????

[EDELWEISS]

Have you thought about splitting the difference(so to speak) and going with a semi-auto PKM?

Yeah, I did. I posted else where that I have a semi auto MG34 and would probably sell/trade it to get a M2 or M82. I dont shoot x54R so adding a PKM also means adding ammo and supplies for that too. Understand Im not opposed to any of the options, Im just not sure which direction to take AND its a pretty big step to take any where I go.

[EDELWEISS]

I checked out the M2 today. The dealer is asking $7000. I think that might be a fair price BUT its making me re think the idea. I really like it and it would be cool to have a M2 mounted even if it is semi only. Ive seen some well made hand cranks too; but $7000 is giving me pause. Plus its not exactly portable.

Hmmmmm? Is a M2 worth the effort?

[EDELWEISS]

Yeah Don, youre makin' sense. I hadnt even considered the wear from a 50BMG. I was tempted by the coolness of it and because I can find mounts instead of having to have a custom mount made for the RPKs.

I have a TNW semi MG34; but I cant quite bring myself to use that on a Jeep. I know its silly but the RPKs work for me because of the compatibility with my AKs and the M2 works because.....well just because.

I talked to the dealer about putting my MG34 on consignment (its unfired and I have cases of ammo and accessories for it), then using the money as a deposit to buy the M2. Hmmmmmm?

[WalkerAK74M]

I'd probably start with the RPK since you can make the pintle mounts interchangeable giving you the ability to swap to another man portable later if you find that you want something different. I'd have a hard time not loading up that MG34 or putting it on consignment and finding a shooter grade MG42. German machineguns are just cool.
Just cool? They are awesome! Especially the MG42/MG3..... Lol

[EDELWEISS]

When I bought my MG34, there werent any MG42s or Yugo MG53s. Id be A LOT happier with one of those. Finding support parts and 308 conversions is easier and cheaper. There are plenty of mounts (ground and AA) for the MG42s at great prices BUT MG34 mounts are hard to find.

I think for now, Im gonna stick with my original idea and go with the RPKs for the Jeep. I'll probably list the '34 for sale as soon as I can get a list of the ammo and accessories.

[mde762]

I think the RPK idea is the best/most feasible bro.

pros:
1. takes same round/mag as fellow guys on the ground so easy resuply
2.Light, so it wont damage your suspension(a 50 on a jeep will, believe me!)
3. Optics and/or accesories are the same(relatively) for the AK, as well as same manual of arms(anyone fam. with an AK can run it)
cons:
1. A 308 will pack more punch
2. Mags or drums limit your extended firing capabilities
3. Lack of a quick change barrel also forces the operator to pay more attention to rates of fire(solved with training)

All in all, your jeep will be kinda like a scout car, and thats really cool. But speed and mobility will be its biggest ally, as with mine(I have an 06 Rubicon Unlimited) and the ability to bolt even light armor to it is gonna kill the speed factor. I think the RPKs in the back is a great option, and if you have the means for a custom mount then that's the way Id go. Mine(besides being a daily driver) would be used as a mobile resupply platform for a team in the feild or an escort vic for insertion/extractions. That being said, some time ago I worked the loadout for one RPK mounted on the passenger side as being 10K rounds, with 3K preloaded in 40rders by the TC AKA front passenger with 10gal of water, 2 cases of MREs, and an Aid Bag strapped down in the rear. The other 7K rounds will be for resuppling teams, with 10 mags ready to go per man. The commo system will consist of a yaesu FT897 as primary, SSB CB alternate, flares for contingency and an orange VS17 pannel for emergency. The yaesu will be mounted in the front center of the dash and CB behind the center console.

ugh maybe this is something for another thread......

In all, Id save the 50 for something heavy, like a F250 or larger. The suspension factor is what kills the vics, and I know the heavier truck can accomodate the weapon and ammo and accompanying gear. It can be done on lighter vehicles, I mean Ive seen DshKs on the back of ragged out yodas in Iraq, but I wouldnt bet my life on it.

[ImFromTheGovt]

Here is my :2cents::

Instead of getting the semi-M2 .50BMG, I would look into getting a semi PKM in x54R for the pintle-mount and make it work with a .50 Jeep pintel mount. Fab up what you need for the gun side as necessary. Why this over .50BMG? Cost per shot. Last time I checked, surplus .50BMG was something like $3-5 per round. Tins of x54R are dirt cheap compared to that. the x54R will give you more punch and range than the RPK for a single, vehicle-only weapon. Not only can you afford 4-5x the ammo for the same price, but you can carry it for the same weight.

Then I think I would put two RPKs on the Jeep as well. One for the passenger's side and one facing rear for someone low, sitting on the floor of the cargo area let's say (trunk monkey). Now you have one rear facing x39, one front facing x39 (both removable and usable on foot) each with almost a 180-degree field of fire, and a 360-degree mounted gun up top for someone standing with a lot more range & punch as well. Now a crew of four in the jeep all have a job to do (three gunners, one driver). If you only plan on ever having a crew of two, then maybe there is no need for the RPKs, or maybe just mount one on the driver's side so driver can shoot as well with left hand while passenger gets on the PKM.

Sort of like this:
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Australia/SASR/pic31.jpg

Check out how the Jaguar Rover Australia (JRA) Long Range Patrol Vehicle deals with it.

Just my thoughts.

[EDELWEISS]

You guys have pretty much convinced me to pass on the Semi 50, it seemed like a good idea in the beginning; but cost and wear seem counter-productive.

Im going back to my original idea twin RPKs on the roll bar. This will limit rear fire BUT (I think) make mounting easier. I kinda like the idea of a trunk monkey rear gun, so maybe another RPK off to one side ought to take care of rear protection. Finally a left side RPK for the passenger (as this is a right hand drive). The driver will have a SMG or PCC, originally it was gonna be a Sterling (and still may be) but Im leaning towards a MAC SBR, as it will be easier for the driver and can be carried like a big pistol:cursing: if dismounted and humping a RPK.

Thats four RPKs, which can be used as ground guns if necessary and use all standard AK gear and parts. Im gonna have to "fit test" the trunk monkey rear gun; but I think it might fit if I can rig a low mount.

My son is excited (and that makes it all worth while). Now I have to find a local shop that understands "Zombie Apocalypse". Space in a Wrangler is limited but I want to add a ammo can for spare drums amd mags and a couple of gas / water cans. Externally Im adding a high lift jack and off road lights (front and rear). Im also thinking of a spot light.

[rstegjr]

Any update or pics on your build?

[EDELWEISS]

I had forgotten about this thread; but not the jeep mods. The project still progresses. Heres where we are so far, from front to back:
1. The figure "8" of rope on the front bumper (just cause every Jeep needs rope on the bumper)
2. A second spare tire mounted on the hood, Land Rover style. (Its a full size spare using the same wheel and tire as the road wheels and rear spare) Its mounted with the same type spare mount used on the rear; but modified to sit as low as possible and fit the hood, which is reinforced underneath for the extra weight)
3. Behind the spare is a Hi-lift jack mounted on the hood.
4. Inside is a CB/PA. The plan is to add a power inverter, just because they come in handy more times then I can say --once you have one. Havent decided on which HAM to use 2m, 10m, ???
5. The driver's seat was given more front/rear movement with add on brackets I found in one of the Jeep 4WD catalogs--huge comfort improvement!
6. All the padding was un-zipped and removed from the roll bars. I needed to get at the bars for mounting purposes and that simple thing did tons to making it feel more aggressive. Once everything is done, my plan is to cover the roll bars in sleeping pad foam then cover it with 100MPH tape (like the final mods to the old M151 series.
7. I bought tube doors; but have decided not to use them.
8. Added a snorkel, there are reports that these actually add fuel economy; but I didnt drive it enough before adding it to know if it makes a difference (supposed to be something to do with drawing in cooler air???). Ultimately it adds function and looks cool.
9. A pedestal base (actual military), is mounted so it is positioned just behind the roll bar and is attached to the top roll bar with a custom "T" joint so its even with the top of the roll bar and just looks like added support when theres no pintle in the pedestal. It also allows the soft and hard top to be used. (future plans are too add a "sun" roof to the hard top, so the weapon can still be used when the hard top is in place.
10. I have 6 gas cans (pre EPA mods that require three hands and a monkey to use), and 3 water cans (all 5 gal). So far I have mounted two jerry can holders in the back. Im waiting for final positioning of the remaining gear to determine where and how many cans to add.
11. I have two 5 foot metal sand plates (modern versions of the WW2 matting). They havent been mounted yet; but Im thinking some place on the rear (also thinking about shortening them to 3 or 4 feet--it'll be less effective but easier to carry)
12. The CB antenna is a 102" steel whip mounted on the side with a ball mount and heavy spring. The antenna is then pulled forward to a military clip attacked to the hood.
13. There is a rack which attaches to the rear spare which can carry another fuel can and the pioneer tools (shovel, axe, pick). Its a kit that was meant for a Hummve.
14. We're still working on a rear bumper mount for a dual AK gatling mount. The plan is to mount it for rear facing fire with dual drums. Those wont be easily removed from the mount; but the entire mount also has a tripod. Im using the AKs to match the RPK I decided to use for the main roll bar mount.
15.. A second Hi-lift jack is on the rear bumper PLUS a ABC M11 chemical decontamination dispenser (just cus its cool...)
16. I had planned to put a swing arm mount on the passenger door for my M82; but as the Jeep is Right Hand Drive, that means fired round will eject INTO the vehicle... We're still considering the swing arm mounts as being better to have and not used than needed and not available.
17. I will probably add weapon clip mounts to hold individual weapons for the driver and passenger.
18. The driver will most likely be armed with a MasterPiece Arms MAC10 or Sterling. If I can find or fabricate a dash mount for the Sterling like the Brits used on the Land Rover, then It will most likely require a steel frame to hold it. Alternatively as the MAC10 is smaller, a transmission hump holster mount is possible; but as this is a personal weapon, it wont need to be a priority.
19. I wanted personalized license plates. My first choice was SUCHKA; but even though it isnt in use, it was denied with no reason given, even the ladies at the MVA couldnt say why. INFIDEL and 762x39 were already taken! Ultimately I was able to get plates that read USUTO (its a Zulu word used as a war chant during the 1879 war).

Right now its still painted factory white. My plans are to have bedliner put on the interior and have the exterior painted but the final colour hasnt been determined (dark tan, grey, perhaps even dark blue???)

[rstegjr]

Cool, wouldn't mind having a look at it when I rotate back to the peoples republic of Maryland later this year.

[Monte]

4. Inside is a CB/PA. The plan is to add a power inverter, just because they come in handy more times then I can say --once you have one. Havent decided on which HAM to use 2m, 10m, ???

2 meters = line of site out to 5 miles (can be stretched some with a repeater, good antenna, luck and skill). 10 meters for much longer range. Why not think about dual or more bands? I know, I know lots of other factors at play here.


Monte

[otto3]

Weiss, what about mounting a pair or 3 of the LMG uppers you were looking at? Unless your looking at the penetration. ...Hey maybe they make a gatlin/rotating hand operated 37mm you spoke of earlier?Oh and after thinking bout your range card idea from the other post we use marker points for feild of coverage at our house,she knows what area we cover areas by color think lanes but concentration points. It late got distracted sorry.,,Would you use drop down covers for the wheels to protect them?

[EDELWEISS]

Rstegjr, dude hit me up when youre in the area!

Monte, Im open to better commo solutions; but Im a complete idiot when it comes to that stuff. In the Army it was just a matter of what freq to use (Im dating myself back to the PRC77 and VRC46 radios). I was pretty proud of myself when my squad and I rigged a field expedient antenna (as a replacement for a RC292). Ive gone to the only HAM shop in the area and dont understand what they are saying, and they make no effort to teach me the language. I cant join the club if I cant speak the language and I cant learn the language without being in the club.....I used a CB just cause it was cheap and easy. Id VERY much like to upgrade but I dont have a clue.

[Erin]

i vote PKM. belt feed, cheap ammo, barrel changes can be done, range, power, cheap ammo. pk's are so cool and they look evil (not that an RPK doesnt.) x54 is gunna wreck havok where x39 ... not as much

[EDELWEISS]

i vote PKM. belt feed, cheap ammo, barrel changes can be done, range, power, cheap ammo. pk's are so cool and they look evil (not that an RPK doesnt.) x54 is gunna wreck havok where x39 ... not as much

Well lets just say Im RPK heavy and so far theres no PKM in my safe. The RPKs have been a challenge to mount to the pedestal (especially since I want to use a US pintle; but its in the works). Ultimately I chose RPKs, because I had them, and they are more easily integrated into the team armed with AKs.

[choirboy]

We want video of you driving this baby around the corner of Ghetto and Gang in Baltimore:razz:.

Choirboy

[rstegjr]

If he does I'll ride shotgun when I get back!

[ImFromTheGovt]

I just want to see pics of it! PLEASE?!?

[EDELWEISS]

If he does I'll ride shotgun when I get back!
The honor would be mine, bring me an ear and I'll hang it from the mirror.....

Which reminds me the difference between jerky and an ear---the ear is more salty....

[EDELWEISS]

Do you have any mounting brackets, either personal or mounted, for a grenade launcher? Seems like it would be a perfect weapon in this vehicle.

Did you get this idea from the LRDG and SAS of WWII Africa fame?

Now you have me thinking of doing something like this.

No GL (at this time):cool:

Of course LRDG and SAS jeeps had an influence, and that is what this project has morphed into; but the original idea came when I took my son to see DISTRICT 9. He was maybe 12 at the time. On the way home, he said, "Dad, do you think we could build a truck like in the movie?" I started looking for a suitable Toyota; but never found one that was priced right? I stumbled onto the Jeep quite by accident. I had actually gone to the dealer to look at a different one. I didnt even know they had this one, because it was priced over what I had set as a max when I searched (only $1000 over). There was nothing special about the one I had gone to see; but this one was just too cool. I couldnt get over that it had right hand drive and wasnt a postal jeep. The original owner had ordered it that way. Apparently most Jeeps can be ordered that way at little or no extra cost???

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_9YRC_J4b9e4/S7r6MDcPgdI/AAAAAAAAC5o/FF0Ft2-4DPQ/concept.jpgThis what it started out to be....




http://www.wmsf-expo.org/Boston_Expo/Rosengrant-SAS%20Raiders.jpgand this is the direction its heading

http://www.ykostudio.com/ywpb/wp-content/gallery/box-art/1_4.jpgbut this is what I was thinking.....

[Monte]

Rstegjr, dude hit me up when youre in the area!

Monte, Im open to better commo solutions; but Im a complete idiot when it comes to that stuff. In the Army it was just a matter of what freq to use (Im dating myself back to the PRC77 and VRC46 radios). I was pretty proud of myself when my squad and I rigged a field expedient antenna (as a replacement for a RC292). Ive gone to the only HAM shop in the area and dont understand what they are saying, and they make no effort to teach me the language. I cant join the club if I cant speak the language and I cant learn the language without being in the club.....I used a CB just cause it was cheap and easy. Id VERY much like to upgrade but I dont have a clue.


I was going to PM this to you but:

The following errors occurred with your submission
EDELWEISS has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

so,

The language can be picked up fast and the first license test is not hard with the right study guide.

More information on the bands is at:

http://www.hamuniverse.com/hfbands.html[url]

[url]http://www.eham.net/newham/bands[url]

[url]http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Hambands_color.pdf

The old CB band is at 11 meters so the 10 meter info fits it.

An intro to general ham can be found at:

http://www.hamuniverse.com/hamradio.html

http://www.qsl.net/kd4sai/intro.html

I'm ashamed of the way the hams treated you. Ham radio is "graying" out to some degree and anyone expressing an interest should be cultivated.

I have lots more to share if you have an interest.


Monte
kd5wij
monte at tulsa dot com

[mason3]

So what happened with this

[EDELWEISS]

Heres a link to where the pics are posted--start with post #14

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?100172-Next-time-Armor/page2

To answer your question, Im still thinking RPKs; but Im leaning towards mounting my Shrike (Beltfed AR) if I can find a mount adapter.