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View Full Version : Vang Comp or not? Love em' or hate em'?



Blind Billy Ray
06-28-2005, 08:10 PM
How do you guys feel about vang comps? I've shot them and they do seem to reduce recoil and without a doubt produce tighter groups. Some would want a greater spread others would want the tighter groups. If I remember the gun I shot was producing groups with 9 pellet 00 at 10 yards about the size of a large fist but its been awhile. I've thought that at night it would be nice to have a greater spread particularly for a moving target (thats what a shotguns good for right?) but then again I'm still accountable for the shot (or that one stray pellet) that does'nt strike the target regardless if on the job or with the family at home. Pro's and Con's please.

georgel
06-28-2005, 09:18 PM
While I haven't shot one, the feed-back I've heard from 3-Gunners is that the pattern is too tight. Comments like, it becomes a large bore rifle.
For tactical use, many want to extend the effective range of the shotgun, hence the popularity of the Vang-Comp system. I agree that it seems to go against what a shotgun is about. I like a little spread in the pattern.
However, the Vang-Comp system is actually multiple parts. One is the back-bore which in effect creates a choke by opening up the rest of the barrel making the regular bore diameter at the end of the barrel the "constriction". This helps with the tight patterning. Another part is the extended forcing cone. Most standard forcing cones are very short, .5" maybe and deform the shot, causing patterns to open. Extended forcing cones go 1.5"-3", I think, and eases the sudden constriction which reduces shot deformation, but also reduces recoil. Then there's the porting, which has obvious recoil benefits.
Sooo... you can compromise and have the advantages of some reduced recoil and some better patterning by having your gun's forcing cone extended. I think 1.5" was supposed to be optimum. To extend patterns further, Federal has a new Tactical load, which is the old Choke load that holds a tight pattern.

Hope this helps...

Hasher
06-29-2005, 12:27 PM
You can acchieve the same patterning results from some of the newer ammo developments such as the Hornaday Tap and the Federal Patternamaster wadding in the tactical buckshot.

I don't need the uber tight patterns. I simply want somthing with consistant patterns so I have no flyers and a reasonable size pattern.

So I would spend the money on ammo and training rather than the gadgets.

Deaf Smith
06-29-2005, 05:17 PM
I would prefer a very nice tight pattern with no flyers and either Vang or the likes of Federal/Tap sound very good.

Why? Cause every pellet you fire is your responsibility. Any that miss are still yours.

Plus I don't consider a half-blast of buckshot to be a reliable fight stopper.

What is more you DO have to aim a shotgun. It's not a claymore. Just aim a bit tighter (my 590 has ghost rings sights and they are very fast to pick up.)

I think the greatest advantage is you could just carry one load that works well out to 50 yards and leave the slugs to anything else. And ending hostage situations at more than 10 yards become feasible with such a load.

I'm looking now for a few rounds of Federal LE 133s to test out of my 590. If they work fine, then Ammoman.com has them by the case.

Nnobby45
06-29-2005, 06:00 PM
I'm looking now for a few rounds of Federal LE 133s to test out of my 590. If they work fine, then Ammoman.com has them by the case.

The LE 133 eight pellet load does produce somewhat tighter patterns than the original Tactical 132-00 in both my cyl bore 870's. However, since Federal incorporated the FliteControl wad into their Tactical 132-00, patterns have improved dramatically.

Having diseccted both the Hornady TAP and Fed with FC, I discovered that they utilize the exact same wad. The wad has slits at the back that blow open like fins and slow the wad down so it slips of the shot column. Patterns are typically about 4 to 5" at 15 yds, and 7 to 9" at 25! Honest. Federal shot is plated. Hornady uses lead.

Choke does not effect the pattern, since the shot is released down range. If that's too tight for you, then you'd better stick with something else. Federal developed the load to accomodate all the LE cyl bore, and IC's out there that could use a little more range. Seems like they turned 15 to 18 yd. guns into 30yd or better guns with buckshot.

All of the Federal Flitecontrol loads worked well in both my Scattergun Tech 18" cyl bores. The TAP ammo worked well in one gun, but failed to open up all the time in the other, and the shot and wad went through the target together 3 times out of 8. Interestingly, that was the gun with the highly polished bore, sometwhat relieved toward the muzzle---possibly creating less back-pressure, combined with the lead shot (more friction) sticking in the wad column? Well, could be. :D

In any event, I ordered my stuff from Ammoman, also, and like the 133 8 pellet for home defense, or outdoors, for that matter. I also like the extra range provided by the FliteControl wad in the TAP and Fed. LE 132-00. :cool:

By the time I discovered that Vang had some Police shotguns built and ready to ship, I'd already ordered from Wilson/Scattergun Tech. I have no regrets, but I certainly would have considered the Police shotguns ready to go. I also considered sending one of my barrels to them for a choke and comp job, but have held off since the availability of the above mentioned ammo.

Distance of attached image is in yards. At 20 yds, one flyer left the group and is under the 16" mark under the tape. Those are relatively rare.

Condition Brown
06-29-2005, 08:44 PM
I've got a Remington 870 Police modified by Hans. Excellent workmanship and great piece. If you are looking for a tactical shotgun - he's the man to see.

Nnobby45
07-03-2005, 04:50 PM
Vang chokes, tight shooting Tactical ammo, ghost rings, side saddles?--all fine and interesting stuff with a useful purpose for shotgunners, at least under some conditions.

However, my HD shotgun is a Scattergun Tech. with SureFire and 6 rd tube loaded with 5 rds. of Win. LE Ranger lead 00. This produces uniform patterns in my guns and has a pattern size a little larger than typcial low recoil buckshot.

The gun is equipped with ghost rings (tritium), but I have to acknowledge that those do nothing at close range fighting distances that one would likely encounter, as testified to by Gabe and others who have been there. With my eyes being less than in their prime, the large post does have it's advantages--especially with a little white paint (ok, a lot) below the tritium insert :D

The ghost ring rear took a little getting used to for fast acquisiton--it wasn't easy for me to completely ignore it while looking thru to the front sight. And, there's that urge to look over them and point shoot at extremely close range, though that doesn't require one to remove the cheek from the proper stock position.

In the end, it appears the advantage for ghost rings is for slugs at extended range, and that they aren't a hindrance at close range if one gets used to them. Also, the resulting precise centering on the target, at close fighting distance, isn't a bad thing. Anybody have any thoughts on the matter, or similar experience?

The Searcher
07-03-2005, 05:40 PM
Vang Comp does excellent work.

Hans did a shotgun for my C in C. She always hated shotguns and getting her to train with one was impossible. Now she asks, "Do we have any more buckshot? This is fun!"

I don't understand the ins and outs of his system but it reduces felt recoil quite a bit.

He is also extremely pleasant to work with.

Rex G
07-03-2005, 09:27 PM
For HD and typical private citizen SD, a standard barrel is probably fine. I work police patrol for an agency that considers all shootings, even when off the clock, to be duty-related, so it behooves me to only use approved weapons. So, my 870 is often used in situations that might be better handled by a rifle, and I can not use slugs. So, a Vang-comp barrel seemed to be a good idea, and I really like mine. After I already had the Vang barrel, I was allowed to start carrying an AR15 at work as a result of 9-11, but the narrow range of circumstances under which I am allowed to deploy the carbine from its mandated location in the patrol car's trunk means that it is unlikely to ever be deployed, especially considering that my 870 rides up front with me, and can be deployed at my discretion. (In real life, things happen FAST, and that trunk can be a LONG way to run.) I can make head shots at 15 yards and keep all the pellets in the black of a silhouette target's head, with no need to locate and buy the latest superheterodyne uber-tactical ammunition. In Texas, the interiors of cars can get really hot, and therefore I rotate my shotgun ammo often. I can usually locate some brand of low-recoil or tactical buckshot, but the latest and greatest may not be in stock when I need it.

Zero
07-05-2005, 08:10 PM
For a "house gun" up close work I would'nt want one. THough I've thought about putting one on my "ranch" shotgun that I carry with me on my families ranch so I can reach out abit.

Wulfenite
07-09-2005, 10:27 PM
I was looking at the vang system for a while. In the final analysis all it really does is increase the range at which the B-zone starts and ends. If the thing you want to shoot at is further away that the average SG's B-Zone the Vang is a good thing, if its nearer, its a bad thing. In the most extreme examples of the Vang system I've seen reported it pushes the b-zone end range out past the range where a 00 load looses enough enegry to be a questionable "stopper".

In the end I figured if you dont have or are not allowed a rifle or a SG slug, and you want to maximize your ability to encroach into the realm of the rifle using buck shot, then its probably a good thing. But if you can load a slug or just pack a rifle, you're probably better off without it because you'll have a better close range weapon in the un vanged shotgun.

Nnobby45
07-10-2005, 05:33 PM
How necessary is a Vang system with the availability of new LE ammo that produces 9" patterns at 25 or even 30 yds (from my cyl. bore). Fed. with FliteControl or Hornady TAP(exact same wad).

Seems to me that the Vang would be useful with original LE low recoil ammo, or standard buckshot, but the new ammo shoots tight without re: to choke, since the wad slips off the shot a little down range. Nothing against vang. As a matter of fact, the Vang may shoot less tight patterns, which may actually be more desirable for some.

Home defense at spittin' distance? No buckshot has any pattern at that distance. Some precision required.

SouthNarc
07-11-2005, 02:58 PM
I've had a 14" 870 Vang comped since '90 and I love mine. It's the most consistent patterning shotgun I've ever seen, and that quality is important to me personally.