Armor?

[bae]

I've been hankering the past few years to get some light armor, just for fun, and the occasional riot by the local liberals.

I've been considering things like:

The Ferret:

http://www.khakicorpsimports.com/vehicles/in-kc151-1.jpg

The Saxon:

http://www.khakicorpsimports.com/vehicles/saxon-in-2.jpg

The Saladin:

http://www.khakicorpsimports.com/vehicles/saladin-1.jpg

The Saracen:

http://www.khakicorpsimports.com/vehicles/saracen-1.jpg

The Humber Pig:

http://www.khakicorpsimports.com/vehicles/pig-1.jpg


Anyone have any experience running these in the US, and getting parts, and that sort of thing?

[Mike Erwin]

And I thought you were talking about a lightweight vest????? I like your definition of light armor.

Mike

[EDELWEISS]

No experience, I looked reeeeealy hard at a SALADIN that was on ebaymotors last year for $25000.oo; but the (limited)availability of parts scared me off. If youre serious, youll want to be careful as some of them arent meant for meat eating Americans. The Ferret is particularly small. Also dont be tempted by commercial cash delivery armored cars. Most arent protected beyond handgun calibers and the off road potential is nil.

email me, we should talk...

[Czechsix]

I'd go Saxon first, much easier maintenance, then Ferret, then the other Alvis stuff.

Heck, go find a Casspir!

Every so often I think about a Saxon, myself. The other junk I have keeps me busy enough though.

[Dr. Dan Choi]

Bae, you have all the great toys. :notworthy:

[5thShock]

I like the Ferret.

[Coolhand77]

I like the Ferret and its bigger brother the Fox. IIRC there was a Fox done up for Paintball for sale up around Chicago not too long ago.
Ferret only gets up to about 45 MPH, while the Fox will do 60 or 65.

[5thShock]

I like the Fox.

[Czechsix]

Oh yeah, forgot to add - parts aren't a huge problem, but you're definitely going to pay for them. Which is why I got out of the euro stuff quite a while ago, and went with U.S. military vehicles. Capabilities aren't the same, and they lack the cachet, but parts are much easier to find. The other reason I mentioned going Saxon first is the Sax is basically just a truck with armor - versus the light armor units, wheeled and tracked. Ever worked on a Ferret? Ever driven one? Ever gotten in one? Things are kinda tight in there, and that's an understatement. Same with other armor, and then there're those oh-so-special drivetrains that the wheeled FV's use - the Saladin, Saracen, Stalwart, etc. Great off road, not so much on road, not without hitting a few things every so often to prevent winding up the drivetrain and associated maintenance headaches.

IAC, parts are available. Short answer.

[EDELWEISS]

Ive been fretting over this for awhile. The Brits do seem to have so cool ideas about armoured vehicles. Im actually tempted to have something built rather than find something surplused and worry where Im gonna find a gidget when im broken down on the side of the road.... My friends who know how to magically join metal (they call it welding--I call it magic), say that its entirely possible if you have reasonable expectations. Not all that long ago my own department had a APC that was built on a Ford truck chassie, and I used to see adds from companies that did that kind of work in the police mags.

If youre serious, this doesnt look like a baaaad way into the game:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqF,!lcE3HSei4qRBN5-fwgzyw~~_12.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqUOKp!E24R8dt)kBN5-f1YtJQ~~_12.JPG
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Saracen-Troop-Transport-/360371096055?pt=Military_Vehicles&hash=item53e7ca89f7#v4-37
Saracen Troop Transport US $35,000.00

NOTE: (to comply with eBay, DoD and International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) Part 121): No weapons, ammunition or un-demilitarized hardware in this vehicle. This Saracen was designed only to carry troops and as an observation vehicle. It is a fully street legal, licensed and insured motor vehicle designed to carry people and has NO restricted parts at all.

The vehicle is a 1956 Saracen APC Troop Carrier. This is a British vehicle designed to NATO standards, and was one of a few vehicles considered “cold war reserve” meaning it was not used and stored. It has been kept in private collections, covered and out of the elements. Hollywood has used this type of vehicle to make many movies over the years, "Judge Dredd" was one.

It is a Mark VI (latest version) and has been renovated and upgraded and is in the shop getting a full check up and clean bill of health prior to sale.
This vehicle has seating for eight passengers, one driver, and one commander in the top.

Its current condition is excellent. The vehicle, to include the engine and transmittion has only about 780 miles of total use, with 100 of those miles at the factory testing the vehicle after it was made.

This vehicle is an example of “built like a tank” and is mechanically simple. Designed to withstand an EMP, there are no computer boxes or electronic ignition to worry about. A simple distributor with points and carburetor system on a gas engine.

All measurements, bolts, etc. on this vehicle are in standard sizes… no metrics. Uses NATO parts which are very available and take about a week or less to obtain.

The Engine is a straight eight Rolls-Royce B80 gas engine that runs perfectly, and starts easily with no problems.

This vehicle is 100% street legal and comes with a clean title. It is registered in Alaska, and currently insured through State Farm (cost is only about $350 yr)

A few facts about this vehicle:

Weight 11 tons

Six wheeled drive, four wheel steering, climb gradient of 24 degrees, ford 3’ 6 “ , max road speed is about 50 mph.

Vehicle was treated and painted last month. Every thing on this vehicle works, no damage.

Interior is in great condition.

Two months ago a complete service of the vehicle was conducted by a local mechanic.

Parts are readily available for this vehicle and can be obtained in about a week from several suppliers. Several different NATO and British vehicles use similar parts and mechanically this is a basic vehicle so there are no concerns with maintenance or spare parts.

There are estimated 10-20 vehicles like this in the US

The vehicle drives like a car, with hydraulic steering and braking.

The top turns 360 degrees with hand controls, the front plating folds up , and the rear plating folds down to form a seat (vehicle designed as an observation vehicle)
The top is equipped with a mounted periscope.

The inside of this vehicle is like the Millennium Falcon. The front plating folds down in front of the driver to allow better visibility. The eight troop seats fold up and have storage compartments. The vehicle can be completely secured with padlocks.


The tires are 12 X 20 run flats and are easy to obtain. Where I live they are about $250 each. That being said the tires on this vehicle have less than 1k miles on them and will probably last forever anyway.

Important to know about these types of vehicles. They are designed, and within specifications if they leak some fluids. As a general rule they say “if they are not leaking, they have no oil in them”.

That being said this vehicle leaks “0, None” engine oil, and has not burned a drop, which is not surprising as from a use standpoint the engine has very little run time.

Some fluid does weep from the bevel boxes and wheels (hubs). This is normal! Part of the start up procedure is checking your gear oil levels and topping off if needed. I am having the seals checked prior to sale, but if you expect to buy a vehicle like this and have it never drip a drop like your Toyota, then this is not the vehicle for you. Once again… no engine leaks whatsoever!... you will need to add gear oil to your gears and transfer box as needed.

To safeguard this investment the following BRAND NEW parts are included with this vehicle:

(1)B80 Engine (brand new as a spare, already crated)
(1)New Gearbox (transmission, crated)
(2)Distributors
(1)Fuel pump
(1)Carburetor
(1)Starter
(2) sets of belts, assorted filters, thermostat, gaskets, etc.

Also included are a complete set of operator manuals, illustrated parts and repair manuals.

Basically this sale includes a new power train for a spare, and a vehicle with a power train with less than a thousand miles of use. The spare parts alone are easily worth $20k

Most APC’s sales start at over ¼ million, this sale will start with a super low reserve!

This vehicle can be shipped to Seattle for about $850.00. The engine and gearbox will cost a few hundred more to ship. From Seattle it can be truck shipped anywhere in the country.

[EDELWEISS]

This may be closer to home and easier on your pocketbook (if you can fit inside)

From our friends at Atlantic Firearms: $19,500.00
1960 Ferret Armored Scout Car (FV701) MK 2/3
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/data/default/images/catalog/large/Ferrett.jpg (http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/data/default/images/catalog/large/Ferrett.jpg)

For sale is our street legal 1960 Ferret Armored Scout Car (FV701) MK 2/3. . This Ferret has all of the hard to find parts and tools that most other Ferrets are missing, including the grenade launchers, Sand Channel, and specialized tools for maintenance. Also included is the full kit for a two man crew including mess tins, Maintenance equipment tools, web gear, Helmets, and a dummy Sten Gun. In the vehicle it has the Clansman intercom system with two CVC helmets with integrated head phones and mics, plus two lighter head phone and mic set ups to allow for driver/commander communication while driving. In the turret is a dummy .30 cal 1919A4 machine gun with the correct mounts and reticle aiming sights in the Periscope. The vehicle is fully armored with varying thickness of armor averaging around 1/2 inch. The hatches can all be closed and the vehicle driven by the viewing periscopes. It has a 24 volt electical system including the standard NATO 1 PIN emergency slave starting system on it. Fuel capacity is 25 gallons of gasoline and has a main and reserve tank. The vehicle weighs roughly 4 tons and can be towed by a full size pickup and a sturdy equipment trailer. Also included but not in the pictures are the two exterior radio antennas. This vehicle is a real head turner and is excellent both mechanically and cosmetically. Mechanically the vehicle is in excellent shape but has the typicall leaks of any Military vechicle . The engine is a Rolls Royce B60 straight six with 129 BHP at 3750 RPM. The vehicle runs very strong and fast and the engine purrs like a Rolls Royce should! The vehicle is capable of 59 Mph in forward and reverse but we have never been faster than 45 . It has a 5 speed wilson pre select transmission that can be run through all the gears in forward or reverse, by shifting a direction lever. The vehicle is road worthy as it has full turn signals front and rear, horn, mirrors, headlights, running lighs and stop lights. As all Ferrets do there is some minor leaking from the outer tracta joints (exterior Wheel Station), this is very minor and infrequently requires a small gear oil top up, which is part of the standard maintenance procedure and can be accomplished in a few minutes. The vehicle is very easy to drive once instructed on proper driving procedures. Included is the operators manual, The vehicle is legal to drive on the road and is easily registered & insured. The units is currently tagged and insured in Maryland.

History of the Ferret

The Ferret was developed in 1949 as a result of the British Army's need to obtain a replacement model for its Second World War light armoured vehicles. Due to the success of their Reconnaissance Scout Car, the "Dingo", Daimler was employed to design and manufacture the Ferret.
The Ferret shared many similar design features with the Dingo, but featured a larger fighting compartment and a small machine gun turret. It was built from an all-welded monocoque steel body. Four wheel drive was incorporated together with "Run Flat" tyres. The turret, though not fitted to all models, carried a single machine gun. Six grenade launchers fitted to the hull (three on each side) carried smoke grenades in British service.
It is fast and small enough to be used in an urban environment but strong enough to negotiate rugged terrain off road. The Ferret is no longer in service in the British Army, although several Commonwealth countries still operate them to this day.
A total of 4,409 Ferrets, including 16 sub-models under various Mark numbers, were produced between 1952 and 1971.

Payment would be made via approved certified bank check, no credit cards.
Shipping is responsibilty of customer and not included in cost.

[Czechsix]

That Saracen ad is classic ePay stuff.

If you're really serious, first thing to do is go find out what fits you. I mean that literally. I'm 6'2", 240, and late '40's. At this time, I seriously doubt I could get into a Ferret drivers station. Then again, maybe I could get in, but I might need to call technical rescue to get me out.

IAC - back to "if you're really serious"...

Look on steel soldiers and ask in their armor section if anyone's close to you, you're looking at armor to purchase, and are there any locals that would be willing to show off their vehicles. For the love of pete don't mention (at least on the forum), that you actually want it because it's light armor, and it's for potential use in future unrest. SS, the G and other sites are primarily vehicle hobbyist sites, treat them as such. Once you meet individuals, it's up to you, but on the site it's more than frowned upon to mention that you want armor for actual use. Stuff like that has a tendency to get certain folks all riled up, and then they justify paychecks by visiting various places and making pests of themselves.

In the U.S., if you're looking at armor, I'd be looking at these first: civvy armored vans, and mobile ATM trucks. Then older 5 tonners, and find the armor kits - they're out there from DRMO, just have to find them. (Deuce and a halfs don't have the strength to actually carry a decent amount of armor for very long, plus cargo. Things will fail on them, 5 tons are the way to go). If you find a USMC version of the 5 ton, you'll also get locking diffs on most models, so mobility is darned near a wheeled brit FV. IF you need more mobility than that, go to tracks, and have fun with maintenance. For tracked armor in the U.S., WW2 era stuff is problematic, maintenance and cost wise, better to go with more recent stuff, but you might be able to make an argument for something simple like a scout car. If you don't need lots of carrying cap, and just want a scout/command/support vehicle, look at the M114. M59 is also a possibility, size is getting to be an issue with them though. More recent and in service vehicles like the M113 series are too darned expensive, but if you have the cash to spare, go for it. Even more recent vehicles like Bradley's are not available, period.

One of the biggest issues that people get carried away with is "can I work on this myself". If you can't, don't get it. Simple.
If you have to have someone else work on them, shop costs will break you, not to mention you the owner won't be that familiar with your own ride. You need to be.

[lightfighter]

I say sell a couple of watches and then go have something custom made - preferably amphibious

[Coolhand77]

I'd love to find a Fox hull [or something similar] with no engine or transmission and rework it with all US drive train. Be a fun project for weekends

[Czechsix]

Hulls are out there, try checking Cold War, or my buddy at Expedition Imports, or ask around. I haven't seen any, lately, but if it comes down to it you'd probably find a very decent price for something like this in the U.K., and conex it over. Make sure you pack it tight with other goodies, they charge by the cube. Alternately, you could RORO a rolling chassis over, but expect to see quite a few things mysteriously walk away from your vehicle while in transit.

[shotgunslinger]

For light armor I would go for a vest, For a weekend getaway I would go with the ferret with a MG42 mounted of course...

[bae]

On the "roll your own" front:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/28/mexican-police-seize-armored-f-350-narco-tank-with-machine-gun/

[EDELWEISS]

On the roll your own concept, you have to ask (I know because Ive asked myself and this is what I said...), what you want it to do road/off road wise AND what you want it to stop--THEN how much youve got to spend.

Ole Marvin of Kill Dozer fame had a bitchin' piece. Nobody had anything close to being able to stopping him, including chemicals since he had positive presuure inside to keep it out.

Assuming you want basic rifle protection, steel plates and ceramics will do you fine AND are completely possible again assuming you have the magic spell to join metal with your glowing wand. For AP and 50bmg protection, Im guessing youre looking at something beyond normal capability, not to mention how to protect the wheels/tires.

OTOH, Id wager anyone seeing a well constructed armored vehilce (perhaps with some ficticious markings) isnt gonna do much but run in the opposite direction. There are a few of us who might stand against it; but thats cus were smart enuf' to know where to direct fire and crazy enuf' to wanna do it.