Do you need a winch?

[McTavish]

OK let me say I've always had a winch on my Jeeps.
In the SE where I live it can get so slick you can hardly walk let alone get up a trail.

Now for a winch like most things you get what you pay for.
Buy quality buy once and not worry about it not working when you need it. Buy cheap and it might just leave you stranded.

When looking for a winch skip the permanent magnet motor get one with a series wound motor. The reason is the magnets get weaker every time you use them. Also line speed is a big thing to some.
You need to be honest about the pull also, most winch makers recommend 1.5X the weight of the truck/Jeep etc. OK say your Jeep weighs in at 4k then that will have you think all you need is a 6k winch right? Well not really. That is the lowest rated one you could use. Think about what your rig would weigh loaded down. Also the type of terrain comes into play. A pull on a hard surface is a whole lot easier than say a truck buried to it's frame in mud.
For most light trucks and Jeeps an 8k winch should be the smallest used, with a 9k one getting a nod.


eta: Gabe hope this what you have in mind.


I have a Warn 8274 on it's 3rd Jeep.

[Dr. Dan Choi]

I would say that for a Wrangler, destined to go off road, the question is not do you need one, it's when will you need it. Unfortunately, the stock Wrangler bumper is not built to take a winch. You need a different bumper....There's 2 that I have in mind for my Wrangler. One is the AEV bumper, and the other is the Rugged Ridge winch mount modular XHD bumper. Not sure if it's OK to post links to them, but they can both be found at Quadratec. Of course, you could always go Mopar, and get the Mopar brand metal off road winch mount bumper.

[McTavish]

With the JKs yes you need a new bumper, the older Wrangles YJ's and TJ's you just need a winch plate.

Look at 4 Wheel Drive Hardware, they are now owned by 4Wheel Parts and run some unreal sales at times.
Plus if you have a store near you it's free shipping to the store.

[KaiserJeep]

I use and reccomend the Warn XD9000i electric winch on my Jeep TJ. It is the most popular model Warn makes, so you can find parrts everywhere. Buy it on the Web for $750 or less. A good winch plate is the Tomken unit, another $150. You will also need another $100 kit of winch accessories (leather gloves, pulley block, tree strap, shackles, etc.).

[McTavish]

Good winch! I don't think Warn makes a bad winch. Truth be told if I ever had to replace my 8274 it'd be another Warn but at over $1800.- the 8274 would be a long shot.
Forgot about the recovery bag. Maybe another thread on recovery gear & safety?

[randyho]

YJ's and TJ's you just need a winch plate.
Yup. But, once you discover just how flimsy the TJ's bumpers are, it's pretty easy to talk yourself into replacing them. I was very happy with mine from Currie Enterprises. Much smaller profile than most on the market, but very stout.

[McTavish]

:biggrin: Thats why the stock bumpers on my YJ are gone.
I put a Smittybuilt Rock Crawler bumper on front and a Smittybuilt Classic with tire carrier on the rear.
Got a good deal on the package.

[lostone1413]

Got one on my 1/2 ton truck. Had a guy set it up using a reese (sp) hitch on the front and rear Then he made up a long power cable so if I move the winch to the rear I can operate it from the cab. To me that is better because 9 out of 10 times if your alone off the road and get stuck you want to pull yourself out from the rear instead of the front

[dcbo]

I want a winch that fits into a standard trailer hitch, so that it can be used either from the front or rear of my truck. I know that WARN makes a mount for the front of the truck and a winch that is portable and can be mounted however needed. A few years ago I saw a truck parked in a fishing area that had a BOSS plow hitch on the front, with a frame attached that had a trailer hitch on it. Unfortunately, the owner was not around to talk to. I don't know if he purchased it or made it. BOSS does not make such a hitch. Does anyone know of a company that does make such an animal?

[Juju]

I want a winch that fits into a standard trailer hitch, so that it can be used either from the front or rear of my truck. I know that WARN makes a mount for the front of the truck and a winch that is portable and can be mounted however needed. A few years ago I saw a truck parked in a fishing area that had a BOSS plow hitch on the front, with a frame attached that had a trailer hitch on it. Unfortunately, the owner was not around to talk to. I don't know if he purchased it or made it. BOSS does not make such a hitch. Does anyone know of a company that does make such an animal?

I was thinking of the same thing until somebody pointed out to me that if you get stuck you might not have the luxury of inserting the winch into the receiver. It really depends on your AO and the possible recovery situations. For me, where vertical challenges present itself, it was a no go. It might work OK for flatlanders that don't mind shoveling mud.

[dcbo]

I was thinking of the same thing until somebody pointed out to me that if you get stuck you might not have the luxury of inserting the winch into the receiver. It really depends on your AO and the possible recovery situations. For me, where vertical challenges present itself, it was a no go. It might work OK for flatlanders that don't mind shoveling mud.

No, I don't see that as a problem when you have a standard trailer hitch front and back. I already have a class 3 hitch in the back, but because I have a BOSS plow hitch up front I can't use WARN's front assembly. The truck I saw would let you hook up the winch on which ever end of the truck you wanted to pull from. Unless of course I managed to get both ends stuck! Haven't done it yet, but have come close!!!

[McTavish]

I've had mine buried to the frame more than once. I wouldn't have wanted to be struggling in the mud to hook a winch up.
One thing I see here from time to time is a frame mounted up front and a bed mounted winch for the rear.
Mostly on tube trucks.

[Dave Sauer]

another piece of equipment overlooked until you've needed it once, then you'll never want to be without it, is a land anchor. Worth their weight in gold when no trees or other vehicles are around.

[RayMich]

I would love to get a Warn winch and their HD bumper & brush guard on my truck.


13566

But I will be needing one with at least 15,000 lb pull and at a cost close to $2,000+ plus the cost of the Heavy Duty bumper system and mounting kit, I cannot justify the expense at this time. But I sure can dream. :biggrin:

[gmorgan]

Very good post, thanks for the info.

[dcbo]

Man, I've been using a come-along, a high lift jack, and an assortment of chains, cables, and straps, for WAY too many years now.:facepalm: Maybe I should just get a good winch, although by now I'm a wizard with what I have.:scratchchin:

I have also become a Wizard with the same tools you mention. They are standard items in my truck. But, I am learning that the older one gets, acts of wizardry performed with those tools become less and less enchanting! Got to find that winch hook up I described above....

[McTavish]

It only took one time with a come along to make me a winch owner. :lol:

[dcbo]

It only took one time with a come along to make me a winch owner. :lol:

Guess some are faster learners than others. Unfortunately, I fall in the latter group.

[RayMich]

Man, I've been using a come-along, a high lift jack, and an assortment of chains, cables, and straps, for WAY too many years now.:facepalm: Maybe I should just get a good winch, although by now I'm a wizard with what I have.:scratchchin:

Yes, that's what I've been using for years and they have served me well. But as I'm getting older, a power winch is looking more and more attractive.

[McTavish]

Ours was middle of the night in the rain and it was right at 33*. It took us hours to get out. We had three trucks and all three were stuck. We ended up with two broken come alongs and 5 frozen guys. All for a chance to fish in a pond that was hard to get to. Didn't even catch any fish.
Yep being stupid hurt.:shysmile:

[Godswarriornservant]

I have always had good luck with "Mile Marker" hydraulic winches. Much better than electric in my experience.

[McTavish]

I have always had good luck with "Mile Marker" hydraulic winches. Much better than electric in my experience.

As long as the rig is running.

[Godswarriornservant]

If it isn't running I don't need to get it unstuck. :)

[McTavish]

If it isn't running I don't need to get it unstuck. :)
:lol: Break out the food cause it's lunch time gang!

We had a trip new years day where we had 7 rigs stuck at once. I laughed so had it hurt.

[lostone1413]

I would love to get a Warn winch and their HD bumper & brush guard on my truck.


13566

But I will be needing one with at least 15,000 lb pull and at a cost close to $2,000+ plus the cost of the Heavy Duty bumper system and mounting kit, I cannot justify the expense at this time. But I sure can dream. :biggrin:


The only problem is 98% of the time if you get stuck and your by yourself You will want to pull yourself out from the opposite direction that you were heading when you got stuck. That being the case if you can't put the winch in the rear to the winch up front many times will be of no good at all

[Godswarriornservant]

Yeah one of the cool things about wheeling is you earn patience and get to practice improvising (thinking outside the box). A good sense of humor helps.

[McGyver]

I have used a Hi-Lift jack and some straps to pull myself to the rear and I had a perfectly good Warn XD9000i up front.

If you don't have winch, have a friend that does.

If you run a full size truck, check out the Ruenel bumpers. They have models for front and rear winches.

[Juju]

I carry a Hi-Lift as a tool of "Last Resort" or "Best Opportunity". Other than that it does nothing more than weigh the Jeep down. Using one as a winch when it is 120 out is a near death sentence and a waste of water. A real winch is not just nice to have, it is a necessity, especially, if you going alone out here in the Mojave.

[AlexSpartan]

Of course you need a winch. If some moron cuts you off, and its icy outside, and you go off the road and get stuck, you can pull yourself out, follow him home, and use the winch to pull down his house! :firedevil:

[Davo]

Forget "ELEC-'TRICK' " and get a good hydrolic winch....
They usually drive off the power-steering pump, and can make the entire pull w/o shutting down to keep from burning-up the elec-'trick' motor.
Due to not having heavy copper windings, they are usually pretty light. (A 4 or 5 thou. lb. elec-'trick' winch will probalby way more than a hydrolic 10,000 lb.er)
You need some "plumbing" run fore & aft on yoru vehicle so you can move yrou hydrolic winch to yoru front or rear attatchment points.(Frame mounted square sockets for trailer hitches make for solid attatchments if the hyd. winch is on a base-plate welded to a SOLID sqaure peice of steel liek for a traielr hitch, and is pinned or "grade five bolted" into postion.)
"Quick connects" make hook-up easy and rubber plugs keep dirt out of the hydrolic system. (Good ideer to cean connections w/ a shot of starting fluid before plugging them into each other....)

Lighter rigs (& Ural Sidecar outfits ;-) , can benefit from an ''endless" rope come-along that will pull itself and whatever reasonable weight you have it attatched to along a MILE of rope if you had that much.

I have 100 ft. of non-eleastic rope and one of these in my sidecar's trunk. (Nylon three-strand can stretch up to 40% when new...Imagine belaying your tow by a cleat merely attatched thru the deck and not bolted thru heavy structural beams, applying tenison with your 6-71 powered towboat's motor till the 2" nylon warp "shrinks" to what looks like half it's diameter and seawater "smokes" out of it in steam from friction/heat, and then having the ten lb. galv. iron cleat on your tow tear off it's feeble fastenings and head for your wheelhouse on the end of a giant "bungee cord". :-(

You CAN take advantage of nylon's elasiticity to sort of "sling-shot" your way out of a ditch or mudhole, but if it's a long piece of nylon line, you'll have to put the strain on it with alternate application of lines to your wire come-along's "C" shackle or hook with rolling hitches.

Dave3220/Davo

[rottonman]

when i first saw the thread title my first thought was------can she cook, can she bait a hook, and can she gt a deer?? if so, then yeah, i need a winch.

[OB-1]

Along with a winch, you should have a couple of "Snatch Blocks", (pulleys), and the straps and clevises to use them.

When making non-center-line pulls remember to check the cable stack on the winch drum during the pull. The cable can stack up on one side of the drum and bind the winch. During non-center-line pulls you may need to stop the pull and rewind the cable to keep the cable stack even.

Winch pulling power decreases as the cable stack height increases so always extend as much cable as possible when making a pull. Snatch Blocks can be a big help here.

When pulling another vehicle/object it is not wise to anchor your vehicle by attaching the anchor to the opposite end of your vehicle as you may actually stretch the frame of your vehicle. If an anchor is required it is best to attach the anchor to the winch frame and not to the vehicle frame.

When paying out cable to make a pull, always keep a full wrap of cable on the drum. Paying out more cable may cause the cable to slip, (shock loading the winch), or to come off the drum when you start the pull.

If you value your winch it's best to let the winch do the work during a pull. Trying to help the winch with engine power to the wheels can cause shock loads to the winch that will shorten the winch and cable life.

IMHO, the electrical cable supplied with many electric winches is undersized. Use the largest cable you can fit into your installation. In my experience 2/0 welding cable works well. A pair of 2/0 welding cables in parallel works even better and don't forget the return path, (ground).

Electric winches run off the battery, not the vehicle charging system. If you use your winch a lot you will notice dramatically shorter battery life. Switching to a Deep Cycle or trolling motor battery will yield better battery life.

[Juju]

"Electric winches run off the battery, not the vehicle charging system. If you use your winch a lot you will notice dramatically shorter battery life. Switching to a Deep Cycle or trolling motor battery will yield better battery life."

The OE alternator may need to be replaced if switching to a Deep Cycle. I've heard of guys ending up with a dead battery in the middle of nowhere because the stock alternator was insufficient in keeping the battery charged to capacity.

[OB-1]

"Electric winches run off the battery, not the vehicle charging system. If you use your winch a lot you will notice dramatically shorter battery life. Switching to a Deep Cycle or trolling motor battery will yield better battery life."

The OE alternator may need to be replaced if switching to a Deep Cycle. I've heard of guys ending up with a dead battery in the middle of nowhere because the stock alternator was insufficient in keeping the battery charged to capacity.

Changing to a Deep Cycle battery does not require a change of alternator. A stock alternator is capable of charging or recharging the largest battery a person could rig up and haul. However, most automotive alternators are not 100% duty rated. This means that the more load applied, within the rating of the alternator, the shorter the life of the alternator. So, if you significantly increase the load on your electrical system it would also be wise to upgrade your alternator and associated wiring.

[McTavish]

Hydro winches are great, if the rig is running. Murphys Law says when you need it most you won't be running.

[McTavish]

This will help the Jeep crowd out maybe.
Here is a link on what you need to upgrade from a 90 amp, most Jeeps, to a stock 136 amp one. Using all Mopar stuff so it's not a whole lot of $.

http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2004/jeepalt/

Use the upgrade at your own risk.

[Nanuk]

I have been wheeling for better than 30 years in every kind of terrain you can think of. Up until about 10 years ago I really wanted a winch on my Power wagon. My experiences and conclusions are that winches are great for pulling other people out or pulling yourself somewhere you should not take your truck anyway. They are kind of a bandaid for poor driving or for taking an unsuitable rig on the trail. One time in the desert it took 6 of us with 12,000 lb winches to pull out one stuck suburban.

I run a snow plow in the winter on the beast so a winch is not feasible. I also run 2 batteries because of the plow. You need to upgrade your charging system to run a winch, my snow plow takes 200 amps to run the motor, an 8000 lb winch takes 400 amps, you will run out of battery in a hurry. The winch motor itself weighs 75 lbs so you are also adding a lot of weight to the front end.

For me, a good 40,000 lb tow rope and plenty of chain works real well. One summer I was pulling stumps and kept breaking 5/8" log chain, my wife called it the "Chain breaker".

Traction, momentum and horsepower.

[LMarshall73]

I have one on my H2, but hope I never have to use it (kind of like a CCW). THESE (http://www.maxtrax.com.au/) are going to be one of my next purchases, and I always carry a HiLift, shovel, axe, and assorted snatch blocks and straps when heading off road. Yep. I believe in a back up for the back up.

[McTavish]

I have seen those in ads, when you get it make sure you post up about it.

[LMarshall73]

When/if I end up getting them, I'll definitely provide the ultimate load test (my curb weight is 8600+lbs).

[Netpackrat]

The only problem is 98% of the time if you get stuck and your by yourself You will want to pull yourself out from the opposite direction that you were heading when you got stuck. That being the case if you can't put the winch in the rear to the winch up front many times will be of no good at all

I disagree with this statement. Yes, there are times when you will wish that the winch was on the rear of the vehicle, but in my experience, the majority of the time you will want it on the front. If you are just out goofing off and bite off more than your rig can chew, then getting pulled out the way you went in makes sense. But for most of us who actually USE our 4x4s on a regular basis, and have enough experience to know our capabilities and correctly evaluate the terrain, the front is the only place for the winch. You were trying to get past the obstacle in the first place, right? If you get stuck, your original reasons for going that way should still apply, and unless your estimation of the terrain was completely stupid, then usually your rig will just need a little assistance getting through. That's the reason for the self recovery winch; not to extract your rig from someplace it should never have been, but to enable you to accomplish your original goal when things don't go quite according to plan.

The electric vs. hydraulic thing has been debated on the 4x4 boards ad nauseum.... The overwhelming majority of opinion favors the electric winch, for a lot of reasons that make sense, from the standpoint of a recreational wheeler, especially for rock crawling. Those guys' primary requirement for a winch is speed, and they almost never need to make sustained pulls; they just need a little help over an obstacle most of the time, and they need a winch that they won't over-run once the tires hook up again. Plus, for a rock-climber, an electric is safer, because it has a built in brake. IF you are hanging on your winch, and spooling in or out when the engine dies, the hydraulic can go into freespool. I'm aware of at least one fatal accident that resulted from such an incident a few years ago.

On the other hand, if the focus isn't climbing mountains with your 4x4 "because they are there", then the advantages of the electric become less important. For a working rig, or bug out vehicle, the hydraulic winch begins to come into its own. Once you are stuck, you aren't really going anywhere fast anyway, and you aren't racing a clock, so the speed of an electric doesn't buy you as much. And it's far less likely that you'll be using the winch to climb a sheer cliff on the way to your bug out location. On the other hand, it is real likely that you'll need the winch to clear a bunch of debris, or that you'll have the only really capable 4x4 rig in your group, and you'll end up winching the rest of your party through the bad spots. Or once you get there, the winch may be the only tool you have capable of raising barricades, harvesting enough firewood for winter, or whatever. With an electric, you're going to severely tax even a well-maintained electrical system, but the hydraulic won't even break a sweat; it will just take a while. Some guys did a magazine article a few years ago with temperature probes, and discovered that the hydraulic winch put less of a load on the power steering pump than the actual steering box did. Yeah, if the engine dies, so does the winch, but if the engine dies and can't be re-started on the spot, getting the rig unstuck is rarely going to accomplish much.

Most of us fall somewhere in between those extremes, where we may use the 4x4 as a recreational rig, but it's also an important part of emergency preparedness. IMO most people will be better served with a GOOD quality electric winch (this almost always means a Warn), and keeping their electrical system up to snuff. It's just a lot simpler, and I know, because my Jeep sports a 10,500 pound MileMarker Hydraulic. The installation is more complex, and since the hydraulics are controlled by solenoids, you've got the potential for BOTH electrical and hydraulic issues. It is also slower than %$*(^& under a load. It has a high gear, but that's only rated for line retrieval. On the other hand, if you are willing to live with the disadvantages, you get a huge amount of capability in case you need it. My winch may be overkill, but knowing that I can use my little Jeep to extract my 3/4 ton pickup, or my wife's SUV if need be is a huge piece of mind. I've had to make a couple long pulls with it, and it was nice not having to worry about draining the battery. And most of the time, slower is safer.