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View Full Version : Shell Casings Hitting .45 FNP's RMR



TangoFoxtrot
10-27-2010, 04:02 PM
I just came across the video on YouTube. It's a great slow motion video of shooting underpowered ammunition, some cases of which never fully eject, while others are hitting the forward mounted RMR sight after ejection. It's fascinating to watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a6BhIDttm8

Gabriel Suarez
10-27-2010, 04:38 PM
Hmmm. In about 10,000 rounds thusfar between our in house TSD guns, I have yet to see an RMR caused malfunction.

Prometheus
10-27-2010, 06:42 PM
I just came across the video on YouTube. It's a great slow motion video of shooting underpowered ammunition, some cases of which never fully eject, while others are hitting the forward mounted RMR sight after ejection. It's fascinating to watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a6BhIDttm8
I'm filming this video...

The one round is question had to have gotten a lesser charge than the rest. The dillion press that was used measures by volume, not by weight.

I forget the exact powder charge for those but it's not much different than the winchester value packs from walmart.

I'm curious if increasing the charge a bit will prevent the brass from striking the RMR at all... I suggest it to Sturmgewher and we'll up the charge a bit on a run of 100 and make another video this weekend hopefully.

TangoFoxtrot
10-28-2010, 04:29 PM
Great video. I love the slow mo.

I came across the original that was cut from today.

This video is awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z96IWspBYk

It's the best commercial for a Trijicon RMR yet.

Sturmgewehre
10-31-2010, 08:56 PM
Hey guys, I'm the shooter in the video. I'm glad you like the video and I'm always open to questions, comments and even criticisms... Well, within reason. :)

English
11-01-2010, 05:10 AM
Hey guys, I'm the shooter in the video. I'm glad you like the video and I'm always open to questions, comments and even criticisms... Well, within reason. :)

I believe that there is a fault with the ejction process itself. That is, it is ejecting back and up rather than back and up to the side. If you look at the relationship between the ejector and the extractor, that should give you the approximate angle at which it should be ejecting. Because the barrel has dropped and has slid the empty case down in the extractor before it hits the ejector, this angle is not precise but it should still be at least as much to the side as it is upwards. I think you should look at the extractor very carefully and make sure that it is working properly.

As a confirmation of this conclusion I think the slow motion video shows two significant things. If you look at the slow motion of the actual failure, the case hits the RMR and bounces back into the port in a normal firing orientation. If it had been ejected properly it would have been rotating and it would be almost impossible for it to have got back to straight. I think I can see that it stays straight throughout but cannot be sure. Secondly, the majority of the cases seem to drop to the left of the pistol and even if we allow for the peculiarities of the impact with the RMR I would expect that the momentum to the right created by normal extraction would result in the majority going to the right.

I don't think that low power ammo has a significant effect on this.

English

Sturmgewehre
11-01-2010, 08:58 AM
I have two FNP's that I own, and Prometheus has another. Of the 3, all of them have the exact same ejection pattern - that being they throw the brass either to the right, or to the right/rear.

Here's a video of me shooting my standard FNP .45. Watch the opening clip, you'll see it ejects exactly the same as the Tactical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T35y3H6Sic

If (3) pistols I have personal experience with are doing this, I must surmise that this is the norm for this particular pistol design.

There are others on the FN forums with the RMR reporting similar instances of brass being thrown forward of the pistol by the RMR.

JN01
11-01-2010, 02:59 PM
So if the RMR isn't mounted, does the brass kick back directly into your face?

Sturmgewehre
11-02-2010, 05:27 AM
So if the RMR isn't mounted, does the brass kick back directly into your face?

No. They eject towards my right shoulder but do not hit me as they miss my several feet.

Warrior1441
11-02-2010, 07:57 PM
I just purchsed a FNP-45 Tactical last week and it is one sweet shooting .45. I have a RMR on oder for it and will give an update if I have any issues with brass hitting the RMR. On a side note Dale Frickey said he would make me a seraphim holster for it if I shiped him the weapon, so I am sending him my FNP with the RMR next week. He said he hopes to get the FNP-45 on his list for standard holsters you can order from OST in the near future so if anyone eles is interested contact Dale ihe s the man!

Warrior1441
11-21-2010, 07:19 PM
I received my Dual 9 dot RMR for my FNP-45t and took it to the range twice this last week for some trial runs. First time out last Monday I put 150 rounds through it at an indoor range using cheap 185g Monarch target ammo and did not have a single instance with spent brass hit the RMR. On my first time out my goal was to zero the RMR and check the function of the FNP-45. This handgun comes standard with a very nice set of high Trijicon night sights for use with a can. At 30ft I was surprised to find these suppressor sights were dead and I had no need to adjust my shots for the height of the irons. My groups with the iron sights were tight about the size of the palm of your hand. When I aimed with the dot for the first time I was hitting all over the target with no consistency what so ever. I tried adjusting the RMR based on the feed back I was getting every 5-10 shoots but could not get my groups with the RMR to tighten up.
My second trip was to an outdoor range was this last Friday. I brought 250 rounds of 230g Remington. I zeroed the dot level with my irons before every firing a shot, rather than trying to shoot and adjust the dot like I did my first trip out, and I had much better results. I was putting up 10 round groups the size of a golf ball at 30 ft with ease. These groups were all consistently 1-1/2'' down and 1" to the left of the quarter size center dot on the targets I was using. I figure this is was due to me pulling a bit, not being use to the trigger pull and a slightly different grip on the FNP and not so much the RMR. I was shooting groups like this for a good 200 rounds consistently enough that the guy next to me who was shooting a match Kimber .22 target pistol at asked me how I was doing that with a .45.
I will say I am not as fond of the grip I get on the FNP-45 .vs. my Glock 21. The slide on the FNP is a good 1/4 to 1/2 inch taller than my Glock 21. It seemed to me that this caused me to have bit less control over the recoil by creating more of a fulcrum where my hand fit up under the tang of the grip. If you have not handled a FNP-45 once you grip one you will see what I mean when comparing the orientation of your hand to the height of the slide on a full size Glock. In defense of the FNP have not shot a G21 equipped with a RMR, so I am not sure if the RMR makes a difference sitting on top of the rear of the slide potentially changing the feel of the felt recoil. Either way I felt a little less control with the FNP-45 vs. my beloved G21 but I believe that I can adjust to this after training through a few thousand rounds with the FNP.
After 400 rounds spread between two trips to the range with different ammo I did not have a single instance of any brass hitting the RMR. The FNP-45 functioned flawlessly. One strange thing I noticed is that on at least 5 separate instances after emptying a mag and going to reload a second that as soon as I would reload the new mag the slide would release on its own the moment I drove the fresh mag into the gun. This may be due to the design of the ambi mag catch. This did not bother me so much and in a way was kind of a plus. All in all I love the FNP-45 equipped with an RMR. I feel that shooting with the dot will take some time to adjust too in general. Up close you don't need the dot or the irons just like we do in class you can just point shoot, but out past 20-30 ft I can see how the dot is a big advantage if you can find it quick enough and hold it on your target long enough for a more precise shots.

LMarshall73
11-22-2010, 03:05 PM
Hey guys, I'm the shooter in the video. I'm glad you like the video and I'm always open to questions, comments and even criticisms... Well, within reason. :)

Good music choice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZT2Jf8_E-8&feature=email)

:biglaugh: