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Geezer
05-05-2005, 07:49 PM
STREET SCENE

This happened to my wife Jill yesterday. She was driving down the street one block off of Cheney’s main drag, when she noticed a teenage boy running as fast as he could down the sidewalk, in the same direction she was driving. She observed him run up to a teenage girl walking in the same direction. He grabbed her around the neck and spun her around. The girl turned to continue walking away, when the youth did it again. Then it appeared that he was haranguing the girl about something.

My wife put her purse behind the seat, with her legal 442 in it, and pulled up across from the pair. “Are you two OK?” she asked? She intended to invite the girl into the vehicle if it seemed appropriate. There was no response form either of the two teenagers. After waiting a few moments for a response, Jill began easing the rig forward and took out her cell phone to call 911. Just at that moment she saw a blue roller ahead of her, and she began flashing her lights to get his attention. He gave her a thumbs up, and he pulled up where the two kids were standing on the sidewalk.

Jill believes that someone else had already called it in. The total elapsed time from the boy running until the LEO stopped the two was less than two minutes. She told me the whole story, and asked if I thought she had done the right thing.

My response was I would have called 911 at the very first rough contact between the two individuals. Secondly, but this is an afterthought, I would have taken the 442 out of the purse, and put it in the door pocket on the driver’s side..hidden from all but very easily accessible. When I am driving, this is normally where I put my handgun. Her thinking in putting the purse behind the seat was that her pistol would not be accessible to either or both of the teenagers. My wife tends to think in terms of what other people might do to her, whereas I tend to think in terms of what I can do to other people.

I like to believe that I would have stayed calm and just been a good witness, but I have to confess that my previous history in such incidents belies that good intention.

Jill frequently reads WT over my shoulder, so she will be reading any of your comments. We would both like to hear a critique.

God bless and y’all be mindful out there.

Kobra
05-05-2005, 08:14 PM
Sounds like she did an exemplary<sp> job. The only thing that bothered me that the gun wasn't out of the purse and readily accessible to her.

Kobra

BB82
05-05-2005, 08:49 PM
The only 2 things that troubled me about this was that: 1. getting involved in some situations that you aren't totally aware of all sides can be a sticky issue. But I wasn't there, so the danger level of the harrassment that the boy was putting on the girl was totally Jills call. Also, no mention of age. Did these look like a couple of 16 year olds playing around- like a boyfriend/girlfriend type of situation, or just a little rough-housing? Obviously the girl tried to walk away, so she wasn't happy about it...or maybe she instigated it before Jill rolled up on the scene.
2. The other thing that troubled me was that there was no mention of a weapon on the boy or girl, so there is some variance in what would be considered proper use of force on Jills part, IF her handgun had come into play. Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm beliver in having that handgun handy, but having it displayed visually can cause a lot of headaches later. What if the boy and girl told the cop, "Yeah, that crazy lady opened the car door and was hollering at us, and she had a GUN on the seat!"
I'm glad that the gun stayed where it was--concealed. Even if the girl had jumped in the car, and the boy had come over yelling at her and Jill, presenting the gun could have possibly caused some later headaches, especially if there were no other weapons present.

But I'm glad it turned out like it did. There is a point where a good, decent person has to become involved in anothers problems, especially if there is impending doom for one of the individuals involved. I like to call that good, decent person a "police officer".
It maybe because of the horrible, crime-ridden city that I live in, but I try to stay out of other peoples disputes. I will get involved ONLY if I don't think I'll be able to live with myself if I don't act immediately (ie.- I once stopped a lady from repeatedly beating her 5 yr. old kid in the head with a beer bottle outside my place of business).
Sometimes it is a tough call on whether to become involved, and sometimes it isn't hard at all.

MTS
05-05-2005, 08:52 PM
I understand your wife wanting to help but getting in the middle of a domestic situation (as this appeared to be) is always problematic.

I think pulling off to the side where she could observe the situation, calling 911 and feeding them updates as the crew responded would have been a safer move.

My $0.02, anyway.

Al Lipscomb
05-06-2005, 05:35 AM
I think that everyone is seeing the advantage of keeping more distance in the situation. The first thing anyone should do if they see a bad situation is get the lines of communication open. A police officer would have used his radio to report the situation and have help on the way, your wife could have used her cell phone to dial 911 and do the same.

A difficult thing to remember is that sometimes something that is going on out in the open is just a distraction for a second or third member of the group to go after someone drawn to the presentation. Getting that close, and disarming yourself, could result in being pulled out of the vehicle and someone else driving off with the car and the gun.

Consider this: if after you had invited the girl to get into the car she accepted the invitation and at the last second held the door open to allow the boy into the car as well.

Firearmz
05-07-2005, 03:46 AM
Admirable of your wife to get the authorities involved. How ever I too think for the wifes safety distance would have been wise, use the cell and call the coppers, feed 911 info and only observe until the coppers arrived.

michael
05-07-2005, 09:43 AM
I'm with Mark on this one. Observe from a distance and call 911, keeping them informed of descriptions, direction of travel and what is occurring real-time. Only if a severe beating or other serious attack occurs would I intervene. Also, I like to have the gun ON me while in a vehicle, because you never know when you may have to exit quickly or become involved in an accident and the gun goes flying. If you recall the FBI agent in the Miami shootout that placed his handgun under his leg, which went flying from the collision. I had the same thing happen once in a crash with my radio. I normally kept it secured between my legs with my butt securing it against the seat, which is how most carried them. We only had portables and not in-car radios. I was involved in a violent crash, the radio ended up in the back floorboard behind my cage and the battery had seperated from the radio. It took a couple of minutes to locate it, which was a couple of minutes that would be critical in a gunfight/deadly force situation.

jcla4723
05-07-2005, 10:12 AM
Geezer, I agree with all posters so far about keeping some distance. Her natural reaction as a nurturer could have put her in danger from too many sources.

Where the 442 ended up is another thing, altogether. In the door pocket it would have been available to her alone . She could grip it inside the pocket, while dialing 911 and watching her 6 in the mirror. Many options would have been available to her. Drive away, back over something, drive over something, shoot something, entertain the 911 operator, and so on.

Tell her we are proud of her for wanting to help, but her safety is important.

j-clay

ps. electric windows and door locks I hope.

Cold War Scout
05-07-2005, 05:30 PM
Several years ago I got involved in a situation, while walking my dog, where a guy was slapping a girl. She was clearly somehow romantically involved with him. The next thing I know she has turned on me and I am having a verbal confrontation with the two of them. Lesson learned. If the woman is not a close friend or family member, or if it is pretty clear she is connected to the guy, it is highly unlikely I would get invloved more than calling the police.

MTS
05-07-2005, 07:24 PM
If you recall the FBI agent in the Miami shootout that placed his handgun under his leg, which went flying from the collision.

Actually two agents in the FBI/Miami Shootout lost their firearms by doing this. One agent did have a backup weapon and was able to fight until severly wounded. The other agent (who was also wounded) was not able to enter the fight.

pete f
05-23-2005, 12:35 PM
tell wife next time call 911 and observe from a distance while still facing the scene with the car in gear. If situation upgrades from a grab and shake to a beating then aproach all the while telling 911 what is going on. if he upgrades from beating to knifing or other imminent danger, drive into him or shoot him.

Avenger2616
05-29-2005, 12:47 PM
What it looks like here, though I'm not sure where I saw it; is that this situation was just a couple of teenyboppers having a spat. My response would have been to call 911 after laying on my horn, letting the kiddies know there was a grownup watching them... my bet is that once the guy hears my horn and sees my cell pressed to my ear, he'd get the picture and beat feet

TimT
05-30-2005, 12:51 AM
I agree with Mark, Observe from a distance, and call 911, and feed them updates. I would have also pulled the firearm from the purse and had it a hands reach. I just recieved my new gang update, and it state that some of the new gang intitiations for the girls is either to do bump and go's and get someone to stop like it a fender bender and beat the good samaritain up, or to stage something on the street were a good samaritain stops thinking they are going to help, but ends up getting the crap beat out of them.

Remember in unfamiliar areas to keep at least 2 car lengths between you and any other car while traveling and espcially at red lights. Keep safe and keep yur eyes open.