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View Full Version : So you are exploring in the guadalupes, spot some coyotes (2 legged)



johnnyrebel87
09-02-2010, 11:11 AM
Hey, I have a scenario for yall. It could actually happen to me (ya never know.) I will be moving in January to west TX, but out in the middle of nowhere, with the Guadalupe Mtn's as my backyard, and miles and miles of desert to roam. I will be doing all hiking/exploring/etc myself (maybe with a GSD some). I will have a backpack with a hi cap 9mm in it, a redhawk .44 on my hip, and more often than not, a lightweight, scoped 7mm rem mag bolt gun slung on my back. I will be miles from anybody. And here's the problem...they catch wetbacks on their land pretty often, every few months. That is just what they catch. There's hundreds of miles, and they just get lucky every few months and spot some. SO here's the scenario. I'm in the desert, coming up on some mountains. I am 12 miles from anything. I walk over a hilland I see two mexicans, with AK's, with about 8 unarmed mexicans following them, and one more mexican with a AK about 150 yards behind them. They are about 270 yards away. One of the unarmed people spot me, adn starts pointing my direction. I hit the dirt, just behind the hill so they cannot see me. I wait a minute, peak over, and the 3 armed guys are heading my direction. What would you do at this point? Weapons are listed earlier, the 7mm rem mag sighted for a 200 yard zero. The .44 mag is plenty accurate at 100 yards..but not so much with me shooting it. Same with the 9mm. What course of action at this point? Run? Shoot and hope they run? Shoot the men with guns? Hide? I came up with this scenario after speaking with 2 gentlemen who live near this area, and both have seen them travelling like this. Both are "cowboys", and are out in this stuff all day, every day. 2-3 men armed with AK's, one way behind the others, and a group of unarmed guys in the middle. They don't have any fear of shooting, they are in the desert and have travelled thru here, undisturbed, for years. Nobody (texans) is ever around this stretch of country, it will be only me. What course of action? May sound far fetched, but it isn't. I want some info from guys here since people here actually know what they are talking about. Thanks,

Ian

Edited to add:
I'm always paranoid when in the woods, whether hunting or exploring, so I will have at least a whole box of ammo for the .44, probably 2 boxes of ammo of 7mm, and 3 or so mags for the 9mm.

mooseman100
09-02-2010, 11:14 AM
Do you really want to jump into a fight that has no REAL effect on you. This is not a God, family, or tribe issue. I would say escape and evade. They will not leave thier cargo for too long.

johnnyrebel87
09-02-2010, 11:17 AM
Also, a rancher not too far from there, same type of area,in az, just this year, was murdered by an illegal. They assume it was a contract killing because they tracked the shooter back to the mexico border. He was shot in his back, and they shot his dog also. So this isn't fantasy speak, it's close to the border, and this kinda crap happens. Doesn' tlook like it will get any better, only worse, since our morons in office won't do anything to stop it, and the BP are stretched thin.

Also, these guys often travel at night, and use night vision, and often have lookouts in the mountains watching over the mule trains.

johnnyrebel87
09-02-2010, 11:26 AM
I agree. But now that I see them advancing, they are now 220 yards out. 3 guys with automatic AKs, not much, if any cover. Now call me chicken, but I'm all for running, I can run like a jackrabbit for awhile...but is that the best choice here? That's a little close for comfort getting shot at, in the open, at that range. This is a serious discussion, and I never know, I could be in this exact scenario next march.

Tripletap3
09-02-2010, 11:29 AM
I would say avoid them if you can, but if you have to fight then fight. Just remember that if you shoot them, there will be legal and court matters and you know how screwed up are laws are with illegals.

ericb
09-02-2010, 11:31 AM
Remember the raw deal these guys got, imagine what they are going to do with a civilian that engaged over 100 yards

http://www.citizensforaconstitutionalrepublic.com/agents.jpg

fldback
09-02-2010, 11:36 AM
I'm all for fighting when forced. I accepted the reality that I may have to kill someone when I took on the responsibility of carrying full time.

However, I also like the idea of "walking between the raindrops" that has been discussed here before.

If you can E&E successfully then do so. The yotes probably won't continue to hunt you. But, if you kill them, especially if you do so on the spot, you can probably count on further attempts to find you.

If you are unsuccessful in your attempt to E&E then by all means the yotes need to be taken out, much better them than you.

In the end, don't draw attention to yourself if you can avoid it, if not then take care of business and don't stick around. After all you are on a hiking trip, not a hunting trip. Right?

A.J. Adams
09-02-2010, 11:40 AM
I would say run like the jackrabbit you are towards any sort of cover (cactus, tree, bush, etc...). If they start shooting while you are running, then you can hit the deck and decide your next course of action, which might be to engage at that point.

I have no experience in this sort of thing whatsoever, it's just what I would do.

***edit to add that you should dress to blend in with your surroundings as much as possible.

bae
09-02-2010, 11:45 AM
E&E. I doubt the scenario will play out where they continue to follow you. There's nothing in it for them.

If they do, do what you must.

Or, carry a "Democrat Party Voter Registration" sash, and a stack of voter registration forms, and walk right up to them :-)

RayMich
09-02-2010, 11:46 AM
My recommendations is: Don't hike in those areas that are known to be travel routes for alien criminals, especially alone. No sense to go looking for trouble when you know that win or lose, you will still lose.

A couple of ranchers in Arizona recently lost their ranch to illegal Mexicans because they detained several illegals at gun point until BP arrived to take them away. Federal Judge gave immunity to the illegal Mexicans and awarded them so much money that the ranchers could not pay, so they lost their land.

Things are getting awful nasty down by the border and I am not itching to become the sacrificial lamb at the feet of traitors if I can at all help it.

Swab
09-02-2010, 11:58 AM
If the area is as deserted as it's described, then, if you have to shoot, disappear afterwards.

manco5
09-02-2010, 12:10 PM
3 Ss. Avoid stupid places, stupid people, doing stupid things.

Self defense is God given.

johnnyrebel87
09-02-2010, 12:15 PM
Its private property, and I'm not going to just be scared to death and stay home every day. Its not as hot as some places arre for it, I'm just saying its possible. I wouldn't call it dangerous. I just am thinking ahead. It could tjust turn into a bad place some day, or some bad people could decide to try a new route for less resistance. A lot of the time I will be out there coyote hunting. Its nothing to worry about, no more than being in deep washington state woods being alert to drug growers.

johnnyrebel87
09-02-2010, 12:19 PM
My recommendations is: Don't hike in those areas that are known to be travel routes for alien criminals, especially alone. No sense to go looking for trouble when you know that win or lose, you will still lose.

A couple of ranchers in Arizona recently lost their ranch to illegal Mexicans because they detained several illegals at gun point until BP arrived to take them away. Federal Judge gave immunity to the illegal Mexicans and awarded them so much money that the ranchers could not pay, so they lost their land.

Things are getting awful nasty down by the border and I am not itching to become the sacrificial lamb at the feet of traitors if I can at all help it.

I agree. There are no well known routes for criminals anywhere nearby, they don't want to walk straight over a huge mountain. Just random people lost and nearly dead. They've never spotted guys with guns, or had any trouble with violence or smuggling routs, etc. If that was the case, id be on a 4wheeler with an ak in the rack. I'm just saying its possible. And wondering what to do in that situation :)

ScottT
09-02-2010, 12:38 PM
Ok, let's break this down, mine in bold.


Hey, I have a scenario for yall. It could actually happen to me (ya never know.) I will be moving in January near Van Horn, TX but out in the middle of nowhere, with the Guadalupe Mtn's as my backyard, and miles and miles of desert to roam. I will be doing all hiking/exploring/etc myself (maybe with a GSD some). I will have a backpack with a hi cap 9mm in it, a redhawk .44 on my hip, and more often than not, a lightweight, scoped 7mm rem mag bolt gun slung on my back.

Well, sounds like you are arming up for something. Personally, I would not carry that much iron. A semi automatic pistol in a backpack does not make sense to me. A pistol is a good thing to have, but only if you wear it where you can get to it. If you are already packing a revolver on your hip, why the 9mm in the backpack? Now, I am not really looking for an answer, but I won't be the one asking that question either.

I will be miles from anybody. And here's the problem...they catch wetbacks on their land pretty often, every few months. That is just what they catch. There's hundreds of miles, and they just get lucky every few months and spot some.

Are you afraid of wetbacks? I guess I have known people all my life who came here for work. Many is the day I spent working right along side of them. I have come across them in the border country and never felt the least bit concerned for my safety. They have been uniformly just as friendly to me as I was to them.

SO here's the scenario. I'm in the desert, coming up on some mountains. I am 12 miles from anything. I walk over a hilland I see two mexicans, with AK's, with about 8 unarmed mexicans following them, and one more mexican with a AK about 150 yards behind them.

Now this is different. I never saw a wetback carrying an AK, nor do I see coyotes armed. Its not a good deal for them. I suppose these folks could be carrying drugs north, but that makes little sense in Van Horn when there are so many better and more efficient ways to bring dope into the country in other, more accessible places.

They are about 270 yards away. One of the unarmed people spot me, adn starts pointing my direction.

Now you screwed up. You should have spotted them first. Now it could be that you were distracted by the fatigue of carrying that much iron. Might want to reconsider your weaponry. Of course, you should shoot the son of a bitch that pointed at you cause that just is not polite.

I hit the dirt, just behind the hill so they cannot see me. I wait a minute, peak over, and the 3 armed guys are heading my direction. What would you do at this point? Weapons are listed earlier, the 7mm rem mag sighted for a 200 yard zero. The .44 mag is plenty accurate at 100 yards..but not so much with me shooting it. Same with the 9mm. What course of action at this point? Run? Shoot and hope they run? Shoot the men with guns? Hide?

If you would have shot the son of a bitch that was pointing at you, like I told you, this would all be over by now.

I came up with this scenario after speaking with 2 gentlemen who live near this area, and both have seen them travelling like this. Both are "cowboys", and are out in this stuff all day, every day. 2-3 men armed with AK's, one way behind the others, and a group of unarmed guys in the middle. They don't have any fear of shooting, they are in the desert and have travelled thru here, undisturbed, for years.

Does this make sense? You need three gunmen armed with automatic weapons to guard a group of unarmed guys and they have traveled through this area for years without a problem? Hand me that script, this does not pass the continuity test.;)

Nobody (texans) is ever around this stretch of country, it will be only me. What course of action? May sound far fetched, but it isn't. I want some info from guys here since people here actually know what they are talking about. Thanks,

Ian

Edited to add:
I'm always paranoid when in the woods, [now, I was not going to point that out] whether hunting or exploring, so I will have at least a whole box of ammo for the .44, probably 2 boxes of ammo of 7mm, and 3 or so mags for the 9mm.

Fifty six rounds of .44 mag, 40 rounds of 7mm mag, say 45 rounds of 9mm (15rds x 3 mags), you are getting into some serious weight issues here. Especially with all that iron.

Tell you what, I spend a lot of time on a ranch near the border next to Del Rio. I can see across the river from where I am. Nobody generally knows I am there and I am typically alone. I carry a Single Action Army in .44 Special on my hip and maybe 10 extra rounds (2 reloads) and I have never felt that I was less than fully armed. During deer season, I carry a Sharps rifle with me and five extra cartridges. Most guys I know in this country carry a .22 rifle or a .30-30 in their trucks. Most don't carry a pistol on their person at all. They and I are still alive and well.

What I am getting at is that a man can work himself into a bad place with imagining things as they might be. Be careful not to work yourself into a fearful situation when there is no need. I am not picking on you and I hope you never run into something like this, so please forgive some of my tounge in cheek comments. Enjoy that country, but I'll bet in six months you carry a lot less iron and a lot more water.:)

jamgusmc
09-02-2010, 12:47 PM
Leave like a jackrabbit. If you cannot get out of dodge then take them out quick, (get that last guard first) you have the advantage, and police your brass up afterwards.

johnnyrebel87
09-02-2010, 12:50 PM
Ok, let's break this down, mine in bold.



Fifty six rounds of .44 mag, 40 rounds of 7mm mag, say 45 rounds of 9mm (15rds x 3 mags), you are getting into some serious weight issues here. Especially with all that iron.

Tell you what, I spend a lot of time on a ranch near the border next to Del Rio. I can see across the river from where I am. Nobody generally knows I am there and I am typically alone. I carry a Single Action Army in .44 Special on my hip and maybe 10 extra rounds (2 reloads) and I have never felt that I was less than fully armed. During deer season, I carry a Sharps rifle with me and five extra cartridges. Most guys I know in this country carry a .22 rifle or a .30-30 in their trucks. Most don't carry a pistol on their person at all. They and I are still alive and well.

What I am getting at is that a man can work himself into a bad place with imagining things as they might be. Be careful not to work yourself into a fearful situation when there is no need. I am not picking on you and I hope you never run into something like this, so please forgive some of my tounge in cheek comments. Enjoy that country, but I'll bet in six months you carry a lot less iron and a lot more water.:)

Thanks for the response! The rifle is mainly for coyotes, and other varmints. But I agree, I will probably get tired of all that weight. I will be horseback often too, so saddlebags and a scabbard will change that. I should probably add, I will be on land where I can shoot, so extra ammo is for plinking also. I've carried 2 guns plenty here, with a crap ton of ammo, I'm pretty used to it. The .44 is for snakeshot, and I've always wanted to shoot a coyote with a handgun, and good medicine for the moountain lions they've seen around. 9mm for protection, rifle forwhatever needs shooting. I will probably be walking back with a lot less ammo everytime. Anyways, thanks for bringing these things to my attention. Its not dangerous, but who knows what could happen. Its actually a long ways south of van horn, that's just a city texas folks know, and like I said earlier, not a hotbed of activity, but when I'm miles from other people, I want to be prepared. Especially on overnighters. You bring up a lot of good points. Thanks. I'm not easily offended, and I had it coming with how my posts sounds, so no biggie :) Just a tactical scenario!

The Shadow
09-02-2010, 12:52 PM
There are a lot of various answers to this question as all ready posted here.
You mentioned that you would have a dog with you, not a deterrent to them but could change the way you respond, they shoot dog as you run away and take collar off dog and with the tag on the collar and a friend in town they trace you and pay a visit at night.

You shoot the guys with the weapons, pick up all casings and take off, the ones in the middle most likely aren't solders so they will be at a loss as to what to do (hopefully).

Get friendly with your local Sheriff and get suggestions from him as how to handle this type of situation, run , fight, Etc. maybe he will deputize you so you could have some legal standing if shoot comes to kill.

One hundred years ago this was a no brainier but the city dwellers mentality of today is always call the cops as they will handle it even though the USSC has ruled that **WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN SAFETY** not the cops as they are always after the fact just filling out reports.

In todays climate even if they shoot first and you shoot back and come out on top, you will be the bad guy if for no other reason than being there in the first place.

You mentioned being spotted even if you run, what's the chances of one of them tracking you home, or they put a call in, and someone else shows up to do the tracking??

That's not a nice thought I know but highly probable given their use of electronic equipment.

Should you decide to shoot and pick up all casings, obliterate all tracks yours and the dogs so you can't be back-tracked.

**THEN KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, SAY NOTHING TO NO ONE, THAT INCLUDES WIFE, KIDS, FRIENDS, ETC.**

Only you and the dog will know what happened that day.

johnnyrebel87
09-02-2010, 12:57 PM
By the way, I laughed out loud reading a few of your comments. Especially when you mentioned not spotting them from being fatigued from hauling all that iron :)

johnnyrebel87
09-02-2010, 01:00 PM
There are a lot of various answers to this question as all ready posted here.
You mentioned that you would have a dog with you, not a deterrent to them but could change the way you respond, they shoot dog as you run away and take collar off dog and with the tag on the collar and a friend in town they trace you and pay a visit at night.

You shoot the guys with the weapons, pick up all casings and take off, the ones in the middle most likely aren't solders so they will be at a loss as to what to do (hopefully).

Get friendly with your local Sheriff and get suggestions from him as how to handle this type of situation, run , fight, Etc. maybe he will deputize you so you could have some legal standing if shoot comes to kill.

One hundred years ago this was a no brainier but the city dwellers mentality of today is always call the cops as they will handle it even though the USSC has ruled that **WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN SAFETY** not the cops as they are always after the fact just filling out reports.

In todays climate even if they shoot first and you shoot back and come out on top, you will be the bad guy if for no other reason than being there in the first place.

You mentioned being spotted even if you run, what's the chances of one of them tracking you home, or they put a call in, and someone else shows up to do the tracking??

That's not a nice thought I know but highly probable given their use of electronic equipment.

Should you decide to shoot and pick up all casings, obliterate all tracks yours and the dogs so you can't be back-tracked.

**THEN KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, SAY NOTHING TO NO ONE, THAT INCLUDES WIFE, KIDS, FRIENDS, ETC.**

Only you and the dog will know what happened that day.

Sobering post. Thanks a lot brother, lots of good info here, and lots to think about.

johnnyrebel87
09-02-2010, 01:15 PM
I would bet my truck this will never happen, its just something to think about, and a fun tactical scenario to work out. Thanks for the posts so far.

Sir Moose
09-02-2010, 01:20 PM
Should you decide to shoot and pick up all casings, obliterate all tracks yours and the dogs so you can't be back-tracked.



Even if you get all the brass, it's unlikely you'll get all the lead. One of the key breaks in the DC sniper case came from comparing lead at the scene to lead from a stump that the snipers had used for target practice several years earlier.

Base Bleed
09-02-2010, 01:26 PM
Whaaaaaat?

This thread is stupid:D because no one mentioned what the Park Service or Border Patrol Command would do:

1. Great them in their native tongue.
2. Provide clean water and some twinkies.
3. Post a large sign telling gringos this AO is muy peligroso.
4. Give said illegals a map of all known BP checkpoints.
See, its simple.

johnnyrebel87
09-02-2010, 02:28 PM
Whaaaaaat?

This thread is stupid:D because no one mentioned what the Park Service or Border Patrol Command would do:

1. Great them in their native tongue.
2. Provide clean water and some twinkies.
3. Post a large sign telling gringos this AO is muy peligroso.
4. Give said illegals a map of all known BP checkpoints.
See, its simple.

;)

Check this link out (border security article) this guy had military dressed men on his land, in arizona, near the border, and they were speaking freaking ARABIC.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/16/danger-stalks-the-line/?page=1

Base Bleed
09-02-2010, 02:50 PM
;)

Check this link out (border security article) this guy had military dressed men on his land, in arizona, near the border, and they were speaking freaking ARABIC.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/16/danger-stalks-the-line/?page=1

1. Great them in their native tongue.
2. Provide unsoiled prayer mats and some falafel.
3. Post a large sign telling infidels this AO is part of the sacred Palestinian homeland.
4. Give said illegals a map of all known Nuclear sites and Elementary Schools.

See, its still simple. There is nothing our dear leaders can't handle.

When we wonder out loud as to WHY our leaders aren't fixing this, we must realize the simplest answer is the correct answer (thank you Occam):

OUR LEADERS WANT THESE EVENTS TO OCCUR. :mad:

This is on Madison Avenue:
http://barenakedislam.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/mus2a.jpg?w=460&h=345


This is what happens if Christians do this kind of thing:

http://www.earnedmedia.org/Mahoney%2020100628.jpg

wstuga
09-02-2010, 03:07 PM
This is on Madison Avenue:
http://barenakedislam.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/mus2a.jpg?w=460&h=345

This is just freaking ridiculous. Will this change even with Republicans in power? Probably not....

Billy

Base Bleed
09-02-2010, 03:36 PM
This is just freaking ridiculous. Will this change even with Republicans in power? Probably not....

Billy

Yes, it will change to the dudes praying to Mecca in suits and ties.

MTS
09-02-2010, 06:13 PM
Remember the raw deal these guys got, imagine what they are going to do with a civilian that engaged over 100 yards

http://www.citizensforaconstitutionalrepublic.com/agents.jpg

Yeah, get in a Officer Involved Shooting, tamper with the crime scene, don't report it to your supervisors, and then wonder why you get your ass nailed to the wall.

Before anyone uses these two as "Poster Children" for the "Oh they got in trouble just for shooting an illegal, poor them." better read up on the case (including their own testimony) before doing so.

johnnyrebel87
09-03-2010, 06:39 AM
Good point.
But I still have no doubt in my mind that they would fry a citizen for shooting even an armed coyote. It sucks tho, because that is enough to make me, or anybody else that could get in a bad position, hesitate. I can't afford legal fees and would not do well in prison..gues I better invest in some desert camo to wear while I'm out exploring.

ScottT
09-03-2010, 10:16 AM
By the way, I laughed out loud reading a few of your comments. Especially when you mentioned not spotting them from being fatigued from hauling all that iron :)

Please take my comments in good sport as they were intended my friend. I love that country out there and I think it is a crying shame that we have this problem right now. I used to cross that border without worrying about anything and I have good friends on both sides of it. Bless you for your good attitude and understanding of my often blunt ways.:)

If you care for company, I would be happy to wander that country with you sometime.

ScottT
09-03-2010, 10:24 AM
Now, if I were in that situation that is previously mentioned, I think I would evaluate my position as to if I could reach cover and/or concealment by the time the trio of armed guys got to my position on the hill. If I had a lot of open country behind me, with no breaks, I probably have to start shooting guys with AKs. A scoped 7mm mag ought to do a credible job and you probably would not need to shoot all three.

There is not a jury in Texas that would convict me for shooting an illegal armed with an AK47 on private property.

I would secure the scene as best I could and get a smart deputy or the Rangers out to do the crime scene. Life would go on.

If I had a good way to escape, I would certainly take that opportunity to do so and keep a close eye on my back trail.

Wyatt Earp
09-03-2010, 11:22 AM
If the area is as deserted as it's described, then, if you have to shoot, disappear afterwards.

+1

What are the odds that anyone will know what happens, particularly if the yotes each eat a 7 mm bullet from 2 - 300 yards away?

The people they were with are mexican sheep. They will either sit there or backtrack the hell out of dodge.

Maddog6
09-03-2010, 12:03 PM
"Only you and the dog will know what happened that day."

And we all know that a loyal dog won't talk. That leaves only one person. Could you keep quiet?

Maddog6 :cool:ut!

johnnyrebel87
09-03-2010, 01:25 PM
"Only you and the dog will know what happened that day."

And we all know that a loyal dog won't talk. That leaves only one person. Could you keep quiet?

Maddog6 :cool:ut!

I hope, pray, I never even have to get close to somethingl ike this, but yes, I could.

ddurkof
09-03-2010, 01:34 PM
Just yell as loud as you can: "La Migra, no te muevas!" and "Manos arriba!"

If they give up it will give you time to leave, but I will bet that they will leave in the opposite direction at a high rate of speed. ;)

gtho150
09-03-2010, 06:34 PM
Before loading your weapons, wipe the ammo clean and have gloves on while loading.
Then do what you have to do.
Gary

Destro
09-03-2010, 07:03 PM
Dude, ditch the .44 wheel gun and replace it with an uzi pistol; a 40 shot shot handgun would neutralize some of the advantage an AK47 has close up. The plan should be quietly flee, but be prepared to engage the if they pursue.

You are not a coward for not engaging an enemy on his terms, remember
how the British won at Rourke's Drift. Watch .'Zulu'(1964) and see how they made the enemy fight on their terms. A fight avoided is a fight won, too. Remember the .'Channel Dash'. of 1942?

KarlinPhoenix
09-03-2010, 09:50 PM
I walk over a hilland I see two mexicans, with AK's, with about 8 unarmed mexicans following them, and one more mexican with a AK about 150 yards behind them. They are about 270 yards away. One of the unarmed people spot me, adn starts pointing my direction. I hit the dirt, just behind the hill so they cannot see me. I wait a minute, peak over, and the 3 armed guys are heading my direction. What would you do at this point?

jonnyrebel87 (OP) has stated that a man among a group of men who are humping large burdens across the desert have spotted him at a distance of 270 yards, in broken terrain as the OP walks over a hill. Being spotted by human pack mules who are occupied in looking at where they are walking while bearing their heavy loads makes me question your field skills, for the sake of the problem you presented us for comment. I have to wonder why a solo man (with dog) is not going to move at a pace where he can and will survey the ground before him (and on both sides, back-trail, too), particularly when you know this to be 'Indian Country'. Of course, you would have binoculars, right? I point out this lack of field skills to say, how will you stealthily out-manouver three AK-armed guys who are familiar with this terrain when you walk around like you are in the city? Likely as not, if they want 'no witnesses' you will not outrun three dudes who will trap you and 'disappear' you (sad about your dog....).

Since the 7mm is going to give a point-blank shot for torsos as far as you see them (350 yards and closer), you might consider a couple of options:
1.) If you think the Bad Guys (BGs) are making a bluff charge and you think you have a covered and/or concealed way of getting out of the area, do so.
2.) If the BGs have radios and are splitting-up, you might want to drop down and start shooting them, last man first (don't want to startle the lead guy), the way Alvin York did for the charging Germans that he killed with pistol shots. If you select to shoot in self-defence, wait and pick your place to hit them, calm yourself and control your breathing and heart-rate as best you can. Mentally rehearse what you are about to do and picture-image it. Calm down. Strive to keep them all in sight, as best you can and wait for the moment as they move on you where you have the last two BGs in sight at the same time. You lose sight of these guys for very long and you lose the fight. Once you drop them, fire a careful 'security' shot into each of them from a distance and then leave (you don't want some playin-possum BGs radioing their pals for backup).

Think about the post-engagement if you survive the moment. Remember, a lot of the Cartel 'soldiers' really are 'trained' soldiers from the military, some of them trained by American military MTTs. It is possible that the BGs are in better condition than you are and are traveling lighter than you are. They can drop their gear with the pack mules in order to move without restriction, will you do the same?


Suggestions:
Start carrying the 9mm in a front of body holster with social ammo in all magazines (and chamber). Learn to point-shoot (target focus) and you will not need snake shot. The first shot you may make could be the 'money shot' that drops a bad guy that you stumble on to.

Zero the 7mm Remington Magnum to be 2.5 inches high at 100 yards (you will then be about 3 inches high at 150 yards, 2.3 inches high at 200 yards and you will be only about 3 inches low at 300 yards).

When you are out on your own, pay attention to your surroundings, including animals and birds. Smell/taste the air as you breath. Often stop and listen. As you begin to ascend a rise, don't just walk over the top of it but look for ways of blending with the terrain so that you can use the elevation to see and survey the 'new' terrain ahead of you (and what is newly revealed behind you). Shield the objective lenses of your binoculars in order to prevent 'flash' (observe the sun before you scan, too). Move at a pace where you can step carefully and not leave much sign of your passing. Back in the early 19th Century, the Mountain Men moved carefully so that they would not injure themselves or leave much sign or unexpectedly come upon a human or animal enemy and be killed or injured in the 'conversation'.

I also recommend some field skills training that is available through S.I. and Tony Nester; also, Roger Phillips PSP, after a CRG course. Down-load the Ranger Handbook and read it.

OP, the above commentary is not intended to be insulting in any way, I am pointing out the obvious for a purpose.

Best wishes and long life,

coastalcop
09-03-2010, 10:57 PM
Given your original question and having investigated more than a few shootings as a criminal investigator before I got smart and got back on the street with rank, here is the wisdom (man thats a joke) that I have gleened. I am NOT a lawyer and this is NOT legal advise just my musings.

In Texas STUDY chapter 9 penal code, Study case law out of our circuit. This begins to give you your legal basis. This also will ease your mind considerably I think. As we are one of only three states left in the union that authorize deadly force in defense of property 9.42 . Deadly force in defense of person covers that there is NO DUTY TO RETREAT 9.32 (c) (d)
Talk to a couple of lawyers in the area, a cell phone number can make you or break you sometimes.

As you have set the situation up you have armed folks on YOUR land taking a liking to you and pointing a rifle at you. Best to take care of the situation while you still have the range advantage.
If I was lost and needed directions, I wouldnt start the contact pointing a gun at you, quite the reverse I would sling that bitch and be real apologetic about being on your land.
So these folks have kinda set out their intentions already. We have held that it is "ok to hit back....FIRST" you believe that they are gonna do you, do them first, and better. If safe afterwards close with and secure the weapons you dont want them to dissappear if possible.

Let ONE story survive to grand jury (if it gets there), and as cruel as it may sound, if he is dead ,he aint disabled or likely to come looking for you when he is out on bond. (oh yeah after about 3 months if he cant make bond pending trial they usually lower to something he can make, and trial could be 16 months away with him walking around)

You will get varying advice about who to tell, to tell or not, heres mine. It can take a while to get back to a place you feel safe and get calmed down enough not to sound like a friggin idiot when talking to Johnny Law. Thats time that the sheep are scattering the bad guys are bleeding....or not and you are getting to a safe location.

I never mirandized the victim up front, I wanted them to be able to talk freely (not Reas Geste) I WAS asking questions but unless something took a major turn they werent suspects and I didnt treat them that way. I am pretty sure that Gabe can confirm that we have pretty evolved BS detectors in this business and as long as you arent pinging them you are really safe in west Texas, especially in that region though I am partial to Brewster County.

You call me and say you were ambushed by three coyotes with ak's I arrive with reinforcements and find you with a rifle of your own and three ak's. We go out in force and see three stiffs in the desert (if the real coyotes havent had a bite already) and track the movement back to the border of a lot of feet, thats pretty open and shut on the law side of things..

Cross border retaliation, hell thats a call you gotta make. Me personally I would rather the word on the other side was "find another route that Guero is crazy bout his land" than "We made contact with the gringo and he let us pass"

johnnyrebel87
09-04-2010, 09:12 AM
Thanks for the great advice guys, it helps out alot. I will definitely have to work on my fieldcraft out there. Hopefully I can be careful enough to, if I ever did spot any bad people, be waay far out and peaking out from behind concealment. It kind of sucks to even have to think about that kind of stuff in our own country! I will definitely be signing up for some SI classes...and there's some Tony Nester classes I'd love to take also. Alot of it looks like stuff my navy seal scoutmaster taught me in scouts. I love survival training. He has an escape and evasion course that looks especially fun. I will work on fieldcraft, nav (I used to be a topo map orienteering freak) and especially long range shooting. I can't wait to get out in that country. I've never been in nothing like it. Thanks again for the advice guys, gives me alot to think about.

johnnyrebel87
09-05-2010, 04:01 PM
I may pick up a saiga .308 for this role after some thinking.....thoughts anyone?

And a spetsnaz sniper course to learn to put it to good use. That is the coolest looking class I've ever seen, along with tony nesters evasion class.

denko
09-05-2010, 04:21 PM
I may pick up a saiga .308 for this role after some thinking.....thoughts anyone?

A PSL or FAL would be worth looking at as well. I would trade the 9mm and .44 mag. for either a G20 or G29.

FrankDude72
09-05-2010, 04:44 PM
With all these concerns, maybe it's best you invest in a backhoe. ;)

or start farming pigs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HAQ3pNHwj4 (NSFW)

Wait, did I just post that? :p

Tongue-in-cheek, fellas. Tongue-in-cheek.


On a more serious note, here's a extremely well does test of camo patterns done in Big Bend (meant to simulate A-Stan) which should resemble the terrain you personally plan to haunt.

http://www.itstactical.com/2010/08/04/which-camouflage-is-right-for-you-its-tactical-camouflage-comparision-ii-results/

Hope you find that helpful.

johnnyrebel87
09-05-2010, 04:52 PM
With all these concerns, maybe it's best you invest in a backhoe. ;)

or start farming pigs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HAQ3pNHwj4 (NSFW)

Wait, did I just post that? :p

Tongue-in-cheek, fellas. Tongue-in-cheek.


On a more serious note, here's a extremely well does test of camo patterns done in Big Bend (meant to simulate A-Stan) which should resemble the terrain you personally plan to haunt.

http://www.itstactical.com/2010/08/04/which-camouflage-is-right-for-you-its-tactical-camouflage-comparision-ii-results/

Hope you find that helpful.

Haha. Thanks man. I'll check that camo out. I was thinking the saiga would be more fun to plink with since its cheaper ammo. The thing I'm most excited about is having miles and miles of land I can shoot on!

The Shadow
09-05-2010, 05:00 PM
Personally I'm still in favor of **If you have to engage and come out on top leave** pick up all evidence of being there and brush away your tracks.

A hundred years ago or less maybe the local Sheriff would take your statement and congratulate you on saving the county money on a trial and having to take care of them in the hoosegow :D

Today it would be you in jail and the state or feds prosecuting you for all your worth.

You did mention in a later post that you could be on Horse back, that leaves you a fast exit to get out of the area and then contact the locals.

That means you not having to engage them at all, which would be the better way to handle this.

All the Glock boys here say get one and ditch the other handguns, but for me the 44 Mag if it has a 7" plus barrel is the way to go.

You can also use 44specials in it which is not a bad round in and of itself.

Were not talking house to house here but distance and a long barrel SAA or Double Action Revolver will serve you better in the Desert.

BB82
09-05-2010, 08:18 PM
Nobody has mentioned this, but it's VERY important. Probably one of the most important things to do to remain anonymous.
Turn OFF your cell phone before you leave the house on those mornings that you are going 'scouting'. Your cellphone can leave a track to where you were/are.

Also, as a side note: there are the 3's as mentioned here before, but there's also the other "rule of 3's" that applied where I grew up in the backwoods of the deep south. Those are: Shoot it, Shovel it, and Shut up about it.

There's a reason for carrying a shovel with you everytime you go into the 'outback'... it can hide a lot of sins.

In summary, turn off your cellphone before you leave the house, and always have a shovel in the vehicle.

Faramir
09-05-2010, 10:06 PM
Turn OFF your cell phone before you leave the house on those mornings that you are going 'scouting'. Your cellphone can leave a track to where you were/are.


I may be mistaken, but I believe you must also remove the battery? Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Gabe Suarez
09-06-2010, 06:21 AM
Some thoughts on an early Monday -

First thing...this...everything I am saying is all "movie script stuff". I am not advocating anything one way or the other....simply musing over coffee.

Thhere could be two options. You get away unseen or you don't. First one is better - since that is what the GFT operator would consider first....but boring. Let's play like they see you.

Now they either flee from you or attack you. First one is better but also boring....let's play door number two.

They shoot and kill you, or you shoot and kill them. Door number two right? Now here is where the hero must know his AO and how authorities will feel about his actions. We don't want to end the movie with the hero in prison.

If he reports in, he should have a sympathetic investogator come out and congratulate him on his self defense, etc. If that is not likely in the script, he should E&E.

Brass and all ballistic evidence left at the scene would be used against him by coyote-supportive authorities. It would be impossible to deny all evidence left in the area by travelling through it, but the hero in the story would want there to be sufficient doubt that he was the shooter should a question arise. Thus the weapons he would use should be clean and disposable as is discussed in Fry The Brain. Having the bad guys shot with a 7mm Magnum, for example, and having credit card purchases of the same ammo by the good guy would be a bad turn in the story. As would discovering that the hero also had a rifle for that caliber....and then a SW reveals the "murder weapon" in his safe, etc., etc.

So, if the hero of the show is actually in line with regional sentiment and law, he can be captain america....but if he is not, he needs to act and equip himself like a hitman with all the built in deniability.

Anyway....that sure sounds like a good movie.........

Wyatt Earp
09-06-2010, 07:15 AM
I may be mistaken, but I believe you must also remove the battery? Someone correct me if I am wrong.
You are not wrong

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html

johnnyrebel87
09-06-2010, 08:45 AM
Thanks for the comments guys.

Good point about that action hero, Gabe. I hadn't thought of that. Nowadays John Rambo would be the villain in First Blood instead of the hero..

ScottT
09-06-2010, 10:04 AM
Given your original question and having investigated more than a few shootings as a criminal investigator before I got smart and got back on the street with rank, here is the wisdom (man thats a joke) that I have gleened. I am NOT a lawyer and this is NOT legal advise just my musings.

In Texas STUDY chapter 9 penal code, Study case law out of our circuit. This begins to give you your legal basis. This also will ease your mind considerably I think. As we are one of only three states left in the union that authorize deadly force in defense of property 9.42 . Deadly force in defense of person covers that there is NO DUTY TO RETREAT 9.32 (c) (d)
Talk to a couple of lawyers in the area, a cell phone number can make you or break you sometimes.

As you have set the situation up you have armed folks on YOUR land taking a liking to you and pointing a rifle at you. Best to take care of the situation while you still have the range advantage.
If I was lost and needed directions, I wouldnt start the contact pointing a gun at you, quite the reverse I would sling that bitch and be real apologetic about being on your land.
So these folks have kinda set out their intentions already. We have held that it is "ok to hit back....FIRST" you believe that they are gonna do you, do them first, and better. If safe afterwards close with and secure the weapons you dont want them to dissappear if possible.

Let ONE story survive to grand jury (if it gets there), and as cruel as it may sound, if he is dead ,he aint disabled or likely to come looking for you when he is out on bond. (oh yeah after about 3 months if he cant make bond pending trial they usually lower to something he can make, and trial could be 16 months away with him walking around)

You will get varying advice about who to tell, to tell or not, heres mine. It can take a while to get back to a place you feel safe and get calmed down enough not to sound like a friggin idiot when talking to Johnny Law. Thats time that the sheep are scattering the bad guys are bleeding....or not and you are getting to a safe location.

I never mirandized the victim up front, I wanted them to be able to talk freely (not Reas Geste) I WAS asking questions but unless something took a major turn they werent suspects and I didnt treat them that way. I am pretty sure that Gabe can confirm that we have pretty evolved BS detectors in this business and as long as you arent pinging them you are really safe in west Texas, especially in that region though I am partial to Brewster County.

You call me and say you were ambushed by three coyotes with ak's I arrive with reinforcements and find you with a rifle of your own and three ak's. We go out in force and see three stiffs in the desert (if the real coyotes havent had a bite already) and track the movement back to the border of a lot of feet, thats pretty open and shut on the law side of things..

Cross border retaliation, hell thats a call you gotta make. Me personally I would rather the word on the other side was "find another route that Guero is crazy bout his land" than "We made contact with the gringo and he let us pass"

There is a lot of wisdom here. I would add that if you do bury anybody and someone ends up digging them up, and they can connect you to the crime, you will be the one in prison. Why not play it safe and deal with it up front like a man. If you have to shoot somebody, Texas law is pretty clear and supportive of that. But, if you decide to hide the evidence, it really does not matter how right you might have been, you need to go to prison.

johnnyrebel87
09-06-2010, 12:35 PM
There is a lot of wisdom here. I would add that if you do bury anybody and someone ends up digging them up, and they can connect you to the crime, you will be the one in prison. Why not play it safe and deal with it up front like a man. If you have to shoot somebody, Texas law is pretty clear and supportive of that. But, if you decide to hide the evidence, it really does not matter how right you might have been, you need to go to prison.

I won't shoot unless I'm DANG sure I HAVE to, to save my life. So hopefully I won't have to do anything shady anyways.

johnnyrebel87
09-08-2010, 11:04 AM
A PSL or FAL would be worth looking at as well. I would trade the 9mm and .44 mag. for either a G20 or G29.
Had a glock 20, sold it. Too dang fat of a grip, had to readjust my grip every couple shots, just too big for my small hands. They're great guns tho. A round butt revolver fits me better.

gtho150
09-08-2010, 04:59 PM
Johhnyreb87--stay alert, dont make big fires at night if camping, dont make alot of noise.
Do what you have to do.
Stay deadly,
Gary

FrankDude72
09-08-2010, 08:34 PM
Oh yes, riding the property on horseback was mentioned...

Take a peek at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2cik8WTin8
about 2:10 in.

There's a tactic none of us ever hopes to have to use, but worth remembering for dire circumstances.

pleary454
09-09-2010, 12:49 AM
I had a situation where I was hunting with another person and our truck was parked at the base of a clearing. On our way back to the truck, four cars parked near our truck. Sixteen people got out and started shooting towards us (it was posted no target shooting etc.). I haven't served in the military but when the crack of the round flew over our head, I hit the dirt. We had 20 rounds of 30.06 between the two of us. Some of these "shooters" started to look over our truck. If they had broken into our truck.... good luck. After 30 minutes of them "target" shooting we decided to let them know that there were some big guns around. We aimed in a safe direction and simultaneously shot one round. The echo was amazing. The shooters looked like keystone cops because they had no idea where the report came from! They exited the area and we proceeded to leave the area and hunt elsewhere.

Lesson learned? I now carry at least 80 rounds in my pack at all times when out hunting. Extreme? Yes. But I will sacrifice some extra weight just in case I need to use the ammo for signaling or protection.

Back when I hunted in Northern California in the late 80's we did come across some of the local "farms" on the federal lands. Not a nice welcome most of the time. Hence the reason I prefer to hunt on private property if possible.

ScottT
09-09-2010, 07:01 AM
Patrick,

That is one of the reasons I carry a pistol with me while hunting. I have never had your experience, but I was out near Sanderson, Texas and I was in the canyons. I carried only what was in the rifle in those days and I was packing a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in .270. (5 rounds)

I shot two sheep that morning and packed them into camp. I went out that evening and I found a herd of javelina I shot a boar and a sow and I missed a shot. I went down in the canyon and heard the angry popping of teeth. For the next hour, I was on a big rock with angry javelina circling around and I had nothing more deadly than a pocket knife.

Now, I carry more ammo and generally a pistol as well.

johnnyrebel87
09-09-2010, 08:07 AM
Oh yes, riding the property on horseback was mentioned...

Take a peek at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2cik8WTin8
about 2:10 in.

There's a tactic none of us ever hopes to have to use, but worth remembering for dire circumstances.
Thanks for the link, that's interesting. I kind of prefer the tactic they used on The Outlaw Josey Wales, when he and the boy lay their horses down, hiding from the bad guys.

Shdwdncr
09-09-2010, 11:23 AM
Oh yes, riding the property on horseback was mentioned...

Take a peek at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2cik8WTin8
about 2:10 in.

There's a tactic none of us ever hopes to have to use, but worth remembering for dire circumstances.


Thanks for the link, that's interesting. I kind of prefer the tactic they used on The Outlaw Josey Wales, when he and the boy lay their horses down, hiding from the bad guys.
Good link. Interesting.
But horses can be trained/made to lay down. No need to sacrifice them like that.

S.

twodogstx
09-09-2010, 11:40 AM
Yes , horses can be trained to lay down and I have done it successfully . However...... that same horse that freaked out from a distant rifle shot is probably the same one that would have to be sacrificed.

My horse, Sherman, doesn't care even if a mountain howitzer goes off next to him as long as he doesn't have to feel the heat of the blast. October task is to teach him how to lay down and let me shoot my .44-40 over him. Funny thing, when I am shooting pistols, he pays no attention to the blast , but when I cock the single action... he tenses juuuuusst a little.

emsmiller
09-09-2010, 03:01 PM
Well first off, that many guys will make quite a bit of noise. Just no way the camels will have full fieldcraft skills. Even more importantly, they leave tracks. So while exploring your land, you will spot the trails and the likely use of the trails. Just note them. Or if you can't truly explore all of the land, hire a pilot to fly you over the land and spend a few minutes looking over the land. Trust me, you will spot a lot from a low flying plane or helicopter. In other words, gather as much information you can about your property and so on. Put it on maps and photos. Document that stuff so you can show the authorities about the possible illegal activities. Supporting evidence in case you have to defend yourself.

Get in good with the authorities and help them whenever you can. Get contact info and radio freqs as well. Why? Because you can then carry a radio that will call for help. The 1st person to call for help will be considered (not always guaranteed) the victim. Plus you can call for those who really do need rescue. Identify rendevous points in advance with LE just in case so you can get help quickly. I really would talk to the local LEOs about this and get their help, comments and coordination if any. Gather any real time intell about TTPs of criminal activities on the border so you can clearly ID the real problems.

The odds are very slim that you will run into drug runners up that way in the Guadalupes. Illegal aliens are a more common situation. Most of the time either they are lost, just don't want to be messed with or more scared of you! Just be aware and you should be ok.

Referring to the .44 magnum, lose it. Use a .357/.38 special if you want to use it for snakes. But the best defense in that area are snake chaps and a nice long staff. If you wind up needing to shoot a coyote or other animal the .357 loaded properly will do the job. Beyond normal pistol ranges you will be using the rifle anyway. And the revolver not weigh as much if you pick the right revolver. Carry the 9mm (or caliber of your choice) instead and consider an ammo belt for the rifle. The Saiga will easily do the job and would be a better choice for GP rifle.

As for the cellphone, to be completely trackless, just don't bring the damn thing. But let's be real, the last time I checked, reception towers are very rare in that area and the phone may be useless. Just depends.

So what would I do? Well, I can tell you 1 thing, I would run and unless the tactical situation forces me to fight back, I will keep running. 2, I would be calling on the radio and asking for help if I was being chased. 3, While on the radio I would be giving a description of the threats and best location info I can. 4, I would be using my digital recorder to record details, actual event noises like an AK being fired and so forth.

One good fieldcraft tip for you. You have a dog with you. Trust me, he is going to know about the others way in advance before you do! So pay attention to the dog. The same goes for snakes too. And keep an eye on the dog cause he may want to mess with snakes and definitely will mess with skunks and porcupines. Don't ask how I know that stuff, the stories will take too long!

johnnyrebel87
09-14-2010, 07:35 AM
Well first off, that many guys will make quite a bit of noise. Just no way the camels will have full fieldcraft skills. Even more importantly, they leave tracks. So while exploring your land, you will spot the trails and the likely use of the trails. Just note them. Or if you can't truly explore all of the land, hire a pilot to fly you over the land and spend a few minutes looking over the land. Trust me, you will spot a lot from a low flying plane or helicopter. In other words, gather as much information you can about your property and so on. Put it on maps and photos. Document that stuff so you can show the authorities about the possible illegal activities. Supporting evidence in case you have to defend yourself.

Get in good with the authorities and help them whenever you can. Get contact info and radio freqs as well. Why? Because you can then carry a radio that will call for help. The 1st person to call for help will be considered (not always guaranteed) the victim. Plus you can call for those who really do need rescue. Identify rendevous points in advance with LE just in case so you can get help quickly. I really would talk to the local LEOs about this and get their help, comments and coordination if any. Gather any real time intell about TTPs of criminal activities on the border so you can clearly ID the real problems.

The odds are very slim that you will run into drug runners up that way in the Guadalupes. Illegal aliens are a more common situation. Most of the time either they are lost, just don't want to be messed with or more scared of you! Just be aware and you should be ok.

Referring to the .44 magnum, lose it. Use a .357/.38 special if you want to use it for snakes. But the best defense in that area are snake chaps and a nice long staff. If you wind up needing to shoot a coyote or other animal the .357 loaded properly will do the job. Beyond normal pistol ranges you will be using the rifle anyway. And the revolver not weigh as much if you pick the right revolver. Carry the 9mm (or caliber of your choice) instead and consider an ammo belt for the rifle. The Saiga will easily do the job and would be a better choice for GP rifle.

As for the cellphone, to be completely trackless, just don't bring the damn thing. But let's be real, the last time I checked, reception towers are very rare in that area and the phone may be useless. Just depends.

So what would I do? Well, I can tell you 1 thing, I would run and unless the tactical situation forces me to fight back, I will keep running. 2, I would be calling on the radio and asking for help if I was being chased. 3, While on the radio I would be giving a description of the threats and best location info I can. 4, I would be using my digital recorder to record details, actual event noises like an AK being fired and so forth.

One good fieldcraft tip for you. You have a dog with you. Trust me, he is going to know about the others way in advance before you do! So pay attention to the dog. The same goes for snakes too. And keep an eye on the dog cause he may want to mess with snakes and definitely will mess with skunks and porcupines. Don't ask how I know that stuff, the stories will take too long!

Awesome tips man. Thanks!

I have decided to go 10mm again, I'm just gunna carry a glock 29sf. It will be my edc gun, and I'll stick a fifteen rounder in it when I'm hiking/exploring/etc. I'm buying a sjambok from cold steel as a snake stick.

Fobos
09-14-2010, 09:08 AM
At 300 yards and beyond, evade. If they are still coming at 200 yards, find cover or a suitable surface to set up prone and adjust your scope for one inch above center mass. At 150 yards and in...

There is no way you are going to be able to outrun an AK round from 200 yards in. If the illegals decide to start shooting, they do have a chance of hitting you, if your prone or running away. So if they are indeed coming after you, at some point, you will have to make a stand or possibly die in the desert.

The question is, do you wait until they are on top of you, or until they start indiscriminately firing before you take action?

Fobos
09-14-2010, 09:49 AM
I should also say that yelling, No fuego, No fuego, por favor, por favor!" would be a way for them to hear you don't want trouble, as you continue to run/avade their advances. At all costs, you should avoid any confrontation or shooting whenever possible.

The question of course is, do you wait to be shot at from a distance, or wait until they are on top of you and possible get shot up close before responding? Or do you take the initiative when you can't safely run/evade any further without being a target (within range of their weapons)?

austin
09-14-2010, 12:23 PM
You are not wrong

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html

A cell phone is a programmable device. You do need the battery removed.

In addition, unless you have had that cell phone on you at all times and bought it randomly, it may also have been modified with an internal battery. or the battery itself may contain a device.

denko
09-14-2010, 01:07 PM
I have decided to go 10mm again, I'm just gunna carry a glock 29sf. It will be my edc gun, and I'll stick a fifteen rounder in it when I'm hiking/exploring/etc. I'm buying a sjambok from cold steel as a snake stick.

Cope Reynolds can reduce the frame if needed. If there are any potentially dangerous four legged critters, I would carry one or two magazines with some heavy loads like from Corbon,DT or BB.The rest would be the more common fodder that is closer to .40 S&W.
You will save some weight by eliminating one of the handguns.

johnnyrebel87
09-14-2010, 01:37 PM
I have decided to go 10mm again, I'm just gunna carry a glock 29sf. It will be my edc gun, and I'll stick a fifteen rounder in it when I'm hiking/exploring/etc. I'm buying a sjambok from cold steel as a snake stick.

Cope Reynolds can reduce the frame if needed. If there are any potentially dangerous four legged critters, I would carry one or two magazines with some heavy loads like from Corbon,DT or BB.The rest would be the more common fodder that is closer to .40 S&W.
You will save some weight by eliminating one of the handguns.
Thanks. It would just work perfect and would leave me with one all around handgun to carry, I think it would work better. And some hardcast 180or 200 grain ammo would probably deter any critters from jumping on me and eating me.

johnnyrebel87
09-14-2010, 01:45 PM
http://www.coldsteel.com/sjambok.html

this, a glock 10mm, and a rifle of some sort and I should be hooked up.

bookman
09-14-2010, 02:32 PM
Do you really want to jump into a fight that has no REAL effect on you. This is not a God, family, or tribe issue. I would say escape and evade. They will not leave thier cargo for too long.

I agree, not your issue. Hunker down evade and call in the BP when you get a signal.

johnnyrebel87
09-14-2010, 04:57 PM
Thanks guys. Are there any books I should read about field craft in this type of area, or anything else that would be useful to read?

johnnyrebel87
09-14-2010, 05:03 PM
and can anybody find the type of radio I should buy on amazon? Woudl this work?

http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-MR-HH425LI-VP-15-Channel/dp/B000OYJ62U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1284505273&sr=1-1

or a cb radio like this
http://www.amazon.com/Midland-75-785-40-Channel-CB-Radio/dp/B00005Q4ZV/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1284505413&sr=1-4

hg1940
09-14-2010, 06:30 PM
I should also say that yelling, No fuego, No fuego, por favor, por favor!" would be a way for them to hear you don't want trouble, as you continue to run/avade their advances.



can I suggest "no disparen, no disparen"..?

regards

emsmiller
09-14-2010, 07:50 PM
I find some of your local ham radio operators or contact the nearest RACES team. They should be able to steer you in the right direction. Just make sure it is programmable to contact local LEO/emergency services. Some agencies do monitor the CB bands but double check.

The 10mm is a good choice. I go with a sjambok, the Saiga and a .22lr revolver and you should be good to go. Another possibility is a Ruger Mini-14 or Mini-30. Or even better yet, go get an AK-74 in 5.45x39. If loaded with the Hornady V-max rounds, it would make a great varmint rifle and a good choice for SD.

But the best thing you can do is learn fieldcraft skills, be aware and have a plan for just in case. Also let others know where you are going and so forth in advance. As for books, there are lots of them out there but frankly you can only learn so much from a book. Get out there and practice. Have someone local show you the tricks for that area and practice, practice and practice!

Cosantoir
09-16-2010, 08:05 AM
Good link. Interesting.
But horses can be trained/made to lay down. No need to sacrifice them like that.

S.



For that matter, he was already in dead ground. No need to use the horse for cover. Grab the rifle, the canteen and whatever ammo is on hand, slap the horse on the ass and take up a good prone position.

If you want to lift a lesson from this: don't count on your enemies being such idiots that they all bunch up and plink away at you from one spot, rather than maneuvering around to your flanks...