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View Full Version : One shot stop - a reality?



todd_xxxx
04-11-2005, 01:16 PM
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_Projectile,,00.html?ESRC=soldi ertech.nl
be sure to check out the videos.

Ammo Lab
04-11-2005, 04:17 PM
This is the alternative product i.e. lightweight for the caliber under penetrating loading for the 12 gauge shotgun. It may or may not present some level of advantage depending upon the situation but it will not meet the standards necessary for todays duty ammunition products.

Gabriel Suarez
04-11-2005, 05:28 PM
The link aside, the term One Shot Stop is stupid. Anyone who thinks their bullet will stop a man with one shot is suicidal, anyone who only shoots once is poorly trained, and any company that uses that notion as a selling point for their ammo is crooked. My opinion.

todd_xxxx
04-11-2005, 06:26 PM
I agree that it is a ridiculous term, and a ridiculous thought process. The fact that I don't think it is a reality is the reason for the post heading. I agree with you completely.

Treyarch
04-11-2005, 06:35 PM
The link aside, the term One Shot Stop is stupid. Anyone who thinks their bullet will stop a man with one shot is suicidal, anyone who only shoots once is poorly trained, and any company that uses that notion as a selling point for their ammo is crooked. My opinion.

Can I use that with credit to you?

Guantes
04-11-2005, 06:48 PM
One shot stop......a rarity.
That might be more like it.

Steve Camp
04-12-2005, 07:30 AM
The link aside, the term One Shot Stop is stupid. Anyone who thinks their bullet will stop a man with one shot is suicidal, anyone who only shoots once is poorly trained

The problem with using terms like anyone, everyone, no one, never, always etc is that they are seldom true.

I do not think that US Army and USMC snipers, for example, are poorly trained... and I would not be surprised if a properly prepared sniper expects one shot, properly placed will result in a one stop shot, especially when they start shooting .50BMG. Of course, I am sure they are prepared to fire again, as well.

Relevant to the discussion at hand? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I think, though, that all-inclusive or all-exclusive terms or words should be used with care. My opinion.

Gabriel Suarez
04-12-2005, 07:53 AM
Steve,

Apples and oranges pal.

"The problem with using terms like anyone, everyone, no one, never, always etc is that they are seldom true."

No, not in context. How often are those terms used to describe centerfire rifles and match grade ammo? Seldom. How often to describe pistol ammo? More often than not.

I do not think that US Army and USMC snipers, for example, are poorly trained... and I would not be surprised if a properly prepared sniper expects one shot, properly placed will result in a one stop shot, especially when they start shooting .50BMG. Of course, I am sure they are prepared to fire again, as well.

See above

Relevant to the discussion at hand? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I think, though, that all-inclusive or all-exclusive terms or words should be used with care. My opinion.

Anyone who thinks their bullet will stop a man with one shot is suicidal

The term is used, and mentioned by me as it is ofetn presented, for small arms in CQB situations. But to humor your concept, Even elite snipers work their bolt quickly. Why? Because they do not expect to need only one bullet.

anyone who only shoots once is poorly trained

Again, snipers, to humor the all-inclusive discussion, often favor semi auto rifles for the express capability of repeat rounds. Killing is not as clinical as firing an MOA group at a known distance. pros know this and take steps to be prepared.

In the case of small arms in CQB, well...need I say more?

dgg9
04-12-2005, 08:03 AM
I do not think that US Army and USMC snipers, for example, are poorly trained... and I would not be surprised if a properly prepared sniper expects one shot, properly placed will result in a one stop shot,

It's all a matter of degree and context. A sniper would not absolutely guarantee, but could reasonably believe that a head shot from a .308 is fairly likely a OSS. A CCW holder absolutely should assume that a torso hit from a service caliber won't be a OSS, and plan and train for a string of shots.

Al Lipscomb
04-12-2005, 09:49 AM
Just remember that even David picked up more than one stone!

Even when you have a high percentage chance of the first shot working, who in their right mind is going to bet their life on it if they don't have to? Steve, I know what your are saying and absolutes are difficult, but I think they are fine if enough context is included.

RMF
04-12-2005, 11:02 AM
Just remember that even David picked up more than one stone!

Excellent !! I'll have to remember that. Couldn't be said any better.

MTS
04-12-2005, 01:53 PM
The problem with using terms like anyone, everyone, no one, never, always etc is that they are seldom true.

I do not think that US Army and USMC snipers, for example, are poorly trained... and I would not be surprised if a properly prepared sniper expects one shot, properly placed will result in a one stop shot, especially when they start shooting .50BMG. Of course, I am sure they are prepared to fire again, as well.

After hearing a military sniper go on one time about the effectiveness of snipers, "one shot, one kill" etc. I asked him why if he was so sure of "one shot, one kill" he used a repeating rifle instead of a single shot rifle.:)

Guantes
04-12-2005, 02:06 PM
One shot stops are like a hole in one. They may be nice but you're not going to get many.

rgrgak
04-13-2005, 07:23 PM
After hearing a military sniper go on one time about the effectiveness of snipers, "one shot, one kill" etc. I asked him why if he was so sure of "one shot, one kill" he used a repeating rifle instead of a single shot rifle.:)

Because there's lots of bad guys that will rapidly need that single shot each? :D

MTS
04-13-2005, 08:32 PM
Because there's lots of bad guys that will rapidly need that single shot each? :D

After stammering a moment that was his response.;)

Bravesfan1995
04-13-2005, 11:30 PM
I've heard it said, and found it to be true, "If it's worth shooting once, it's worth shooting again".
One shot/one stops DO happen. Do they happen consistently? NO. Should we plan on one round to the head/chest to work everytime? NO.
I'm sure we all have our own preferences,and we know that the specific situation will dictate exactly how much time (rounds) are devoted to a single target. The best advice I've ever heard came from Alan Brosnan at T.E.E.S. , "Is he down? Are there anymore"?

Shoot and eval, shoot and eval.....repeat til threat is neutralized.

Ammo Lab
04-14-2005, 01:50 PM
Or one can always think of the FL attorneys advice in one of Ayoob's old columns- "ammo is cheap, spend a few dollars to make sure you are still alive when the fights over".

Guantes
04-14-2005, 08:01 PM
Just look at it as changing out your carry ammo.

Cold War Scout
04-15-2005, 05:00 AM
On March 22, 1989, police officer Corporal Charles Hill of the Alexandria, VA P.D. was shot to death at close range by a hostage taker who had a sawed off shotgun. The hostage taker managed to kill Corporal Hill after a department sniper shot the subject ONCE as we was going out of the back door of the townhouse at which the hostage standoff had been going on. Despite being mortally wounded, the hostage taker managed to take several more steps, round a corner, and kill a surprised and suddenly no longer behind cover Corporal Hill.

Issues of controversy:
--------------------------
- Shot placement (I have searched far and wide on the Internet but cannot come up with the facts of this case)

- .223 caliber's effectiveness

- "One shot kills"

todd_xxxx
04-15-2005, 08:04 AM
Issues of controversy:
--------------------------
- Shot placement (I have searched far and wide on the Internet but cannot come up with the facts of this case)

- .223 caliber's effectiveness

- "One shot kills"

Just my opinion, but I would say the second point has a very small part to play in the outcome and the first and third points are the factors that really matter.

GeorgeG
04-15-2005, 08:47 PM
I think the issue with #2 is how 'forgiving' the caliber is to #1.

yoni
04-27-2005, 08:04 AM
I have a friend who as a Spetsnaz sniper was in Afghanistan the whole time the Soviets were there. He currently is the head of sniping at the guerrilla warfare school in Israel.

He would load one round at a time in his sniper rifle, having learned that under the conditions in Afghanistan this was the most reliable way of doing things.

I have seen him achieve multiple hit on terrorist more than once,
using this method.

In Israel we have used the shoot them to the ground for a long time and then when you go past them you put one or two in the head to make sure. :D


Yoni