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DragonRider
12-27-2004, 05:32 PM
This thread is sort of going along with the thread in Ballistics and Stopping Power about Multiple Firearms in the Same Caliber http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=1433&highlight=multiple+pistols

I am looking for various methods people are using to carry more than one pistol. We all know carry one IWB and another in a pocket or on the ankle. I'm looking for other methods. Example. I know DD used to carry dual G19's and other assorted gear.

That is the kind of information I am looking for. Right now I am carrying a G22/G35 IWB on primary and a G23 OWB on left with a spare G22 mag @ 7 o'clock.

What are your methods??

John
Have a Happy Holiday!

yoni
12-27-2004, 05:36 PM
I carry in high threat situations two Glock 9mm's both inside the pants. Spare mags in mag pouches left side if I am in jeans or dressed up they go in front pockets.

Yoni

Deaf Smith
12-27-2004, 06:47 PM
In the winter here I just about always carry my Glock 26 on the right and Smith M640 .38 Centennial on my left.

I've found Winchester +p+ LEO 127 really does clock out at 1240 from my 26, and Buffalo Bore 158gr. LSWHPs really do clock out at 1010 fps from my 2" Centennial! So that's good enough for me as a load. The Glock 26 carries 12 rounds and the Centennial, of course, carries 5.

Usually the Centennial IS my spare magazine!

jack76590
12-27-2004, 07:39 PM
I don't generally carry two guns. On rare instances I do it is centennial in coat pocket. This is more for access when have coat on and slow to get at IWB holstered glock.

But I think before you decide on rig you should decide on why you want second gun. For me is mainly in rough order 1. access, including ability to move gun around and for this hard to beat Jframe centennial 2. Ability to arm second person- again revolver is good choice for people not super into guns as they are easier and not much difference in buttons between revolver manfacturers 3. backup in case of malfunction- I doubt if I will have to do NY reload with even glock 27.

So I think Deaf's choice would reflect my needs. Now Yoni seems to have different needs and they seem to relate to potential need for firepower that would go beyond "normal robbery". If terrorists attacks ever got bad in US or if a Rodney King riot type situation was in development I might consider Yoni's rig.

DaveJames
12-28-2004, 02:52 AM
When I carried wheel guns, and was younger and better shape I carried he Colt 6" on the hip and the S&W 27 3" in a shoulder holster, have use one of Chic Gaylords dual hoslters and carried a pair of cut down 1917's with 2" bbl's.

With autos I find if they are full lenght,I go with a matched pair of IWB's,for car carry its a dual shoulder rig{which I don't use much at all}

On duty its a hip rig and pocket carry..IF your going to carry double, you just spend more time working out the bugs.

One ole timer I knew carried a piar of 1911's in his hip pockets, on his bib-overalls or his carpenter jeans.

Gun Mutt
12-28-2004, 05:33 PM
I always carry 2 Glocks.
Used to have a lifestyle that allowed me to dress to conceal a G23 IWB (right) & a G27 OWB (left).
When lifestyle once again allows 2 at the waist carry, I intend to invest the $$ in some jeans & slacks that are big enough to carry both IWB.

7677
12-29-2004, 11:49 AM
When I worked uniformed patrol, I carried a Sig 226 and a G19 and when we were authorized to carry the 357Sig I carried a G31 and a G33.

dgg9
12-29-2004, 12:30 PM
When I worked uniformed patrol, I carried a Sig 226 and a G19

Just out of curiosity, why two wondernines of a different brand? Why not two of the same?

7677
12-29-2004, 02:05 PM
Dgg9,
I was issued the Sig 226 and at the time you had to carry the issued weapon while on duty. I'm left handed the glock 19 fit me better and plus it was smaller, lighter and cost nearly $200 less then the Sig 226. This was also prior to the G26 or the Sig 239 coming on the market.

OdieWon
12-29-2004, 02:21 PM
I think that 2 pistols is a plausible solution to many problems. But I'm thinking to myself, if I were carrying 2 glocks, of any size, (which is what I carry BTW G27 and G22) on the waist IWB or OWB every time I bent over they would be printing like crazy, unless I'm wearing a long puffy coat.

I have 3 kids, and have to go to the grocery store and change tires, and be prepared to do anything while remaining covert with my weapons.

I don't find it difficult to carry a G22 and a spare mag, but it does require my attention to detail in my movements. I have been known to carry the G22 OWB, and the G27 in rf pants pocket. This is not at all uncomfortable, and often times I go with G27 in pocket, and that's it.

Another thing that seems to get me, is that if I always have a cover garment, I end up getting really really hot, especially when we go to WalMart or something like that where we are walking around in a heated place, where one might have to bend over to get something off of the bottom rack. Then I find myself wanting to strip off some layers, and you can only go so far with that.

For a while I trained myself to endure that, by wearing two shirts all summer long in Oklahoma, working as a tire shop manager(where incidently I carried almost all of the time.)

As I get older this seems to be more and more a pain in the a@@ and one gun seems to seem more reasonable. Of course one gun is too much, for people in the family who aren't "believers" in self reliance and self responsibility. They seem to think I'm some type of a freak if they notice.

I guess that's a good thing though, it's really encouraged me to be even more covert. Now most times, no one knows except for the wife, and the pastor. :)

ISRAELI EXTREMIST
12-29-2004, 03:17 PM
Odiwon , do not bend over always kneel that prevents the printing and a good holster should prevent the gun from printing if it has the FBI cant. Like a Kramer or Milt Sparks.
Still do not bend over always kneel. I learned that long time ago.

michael
12-29-2004, 03:53 PM
Not only does bending over print your weapon, it's bad on the knees, but the worse thing is that it forces you to look down and not at your surroundings. You should always be aware of whats around you, and bending over does not allow you to do this. If you squat, you can maintain a visual lookout.

jack76590
12-29-2004, 04:06 PM
[QUOTE=OdieWon]I

Another thing that seems to get me, is that if I always have a cover garment, I end up getting really really hot, especially when we go to WalMart or something like that where we are walking around in a heated place, where one might have to bend over to get something off of the bottom rack. Then I find myself wanting to strip off some layers, and you can only go so far with that.

For a while I trained myself to endure that, by wearing two shirts all summer long in Oklahoma, working as a tire shop manager(where incidently I carried almost all of the time.)


Odie,

For casual wear try an untucked polo or rugby shirt. Come in various weight fabrics and needs to be no more heavier than a regular shirt. Another plus, for me at least, is you can wear suspenders under polo. I find suspenders keep undershirt tucked in and with untucked polo suspender does not show. I carried this way a lot during No. Va summers and I suspect a lot more hot and humid than in Oklahoma. My rig was Kramer IWB holster with Kramer double thick 1.5" wide belt with glock 27.

38SUPER
12-29-2004, 04:14 PM
Another option is the guayuberra shirts. They are loose enough to let air circulate and you can wear them with anything from khakis to jeans. I carry OWB and have never had a problem with this style shirt or untucked polo as jack recommends

Erich
12-29-2004, 08:22 PM
When I carry 2, it's in the Security model (2 equal sized pockets) SmartCarry. Generally I do this with J-frames, since the fastest reload for a J-frame is to draw another one. :D

I usually just load up the off-side pouch with mags, though.

Dr. Snubnose
12-29-2004, 09:00 PM
I always carry two Ruger Sp101s in 357 mag....one strong side in an Alessi IWB Talon Clip Holster and the other crossdraw in the same Holster but tucked under the belt with the clip on the outside, there is also a Smith and Wesson 340PD 357 mag in a pocket holster inside my side vest pocket and a NAA Mini Mag in .22 mag in a pocket holster, front pocket of the jeans and another in deep concealment inside a groin holster called Thunderwear. Deep Winter weather (when gloves are needed)calls for the strong side Ruger to be replaced by a Sig P220 in 45ACP, the rest remains the same.

warhawke
12-30-2004, 01:17 AM
"Beware the man who carries only one gun, He probably knows how to use it."

He probably has extra ammo as well.

ISRAELI EXTREMIST
12-30-2004, 10:52 AM
Warhawke if the man with one gun has a mishap and his gun breaks or looses it or gets taken away from him then what happens? if he finds another different gun ? he might have a problem using the gun he does not know. :D
I do not think that it is a virtue to carry and know only one gun, but to be familiar and be good in the use of various guns is a plus in case sh-t happens.
I can shoot most guns well including the Glock, 1911, Sig, S&W and revolvers. Because I had a lot of practice with all this guns although I prefer the Glock and the 1911 more then the others. :)

sp0rk
01-04-2005, 01:09 PM
Referencing http://www.warriortalk.com/showpost.php?p=14921&postcount=4 , and considering that there are no 'rules' or limits to when you are defending your life in a gunfight, that we live in a 360 degree environment, and that we are all capable of firing a weapon accurately from one hand be it primary or secondary hand with practice and training invested, how many of you would use a gun in each hand?

Erich
01-04-2005, 02:10 PM
Probably not me - barring some extremely weird circumstance.

I don't think that it's likely that - even in the highly unlikely event that I was ever in a gunfight, G-d forbid - I'd ever be in one that was long enough to draw the second gun. I think of my second gun as a reload, essentially. I practice off-hand shooting, but I would think that virtually any time I'd have to shoot, I'd be much better off with drawing the primary gun and dropping into the more-practiced two-handed fire.

On the other hand, if I find myself gathering my breath for a charge into the jaws of death, sure, why not draw the second gun? (Anybody else recall Steve Earle's "Tom Ames' Prayer"? ". . . So he cocked both his pistols and he spit in the dirt . . . and he walked out into that street.")

warhawke
12-29-2006, 10:06 PM
Warhawke if the man with one gun has a mishap and his gun breaks or looses it or gets taken away from him then what happens? if he finds another different gun ? he might have a problem using the gun he does not know. :D
I do not think that it is a virtue to carry and know only one gun, but to be familiar and be good in the use of various guns is a plus in case sh-t happens.
I can shoot most guns well including the Glock, 1911, Sig, S&W and revolvers. Because I had a lot of practice with all this guns although I prefer the Glock and the 1911 more then the others. :)

I have so many people tell me this it ain't funny. Sure, if you are a cop or a SEAL or a Delta Op, you might want to carry 2 pistols, or 3 or 7 or 22 1/2, or whatever. Me, I'm just a private citizen, for me my pistol is a self-defense tool. I'm not going into combat, I'm not expecting to engage North Korean Paratroopers or Crackdealing Atomic Mutant Zombie Bikers, if and when I do you can dang well bet I will have a long arm with me.

Can my pistol break? Sure, my car can break too but I don't carry a Yugo in the trunk! Instead I carry a spare tire, a jack, fan belts, fluids and a tool kit, and I make sure my car is in good repair at all times. I carry spare magazines for my pistol (magazines being the #1 cause of malf's) and a small parts kit (not that they will be much good in the middle of a fight) and I make sure that my weapon is clean and ready to go! I am udderly paranoid about the condition of my weapons, if the slightest hick-up occures in training or practice I run down it's cause INSTANTLY or I deadline the weapon until repaired, and if I can't that weapon is GONE ASAP!

Sorry, I'm not trying to burn you or anything, but I've just had one too many ChairBorne Commandos who tell me what an idiot I am for only packing one pistol when he carries 3 Glock 19's for "New York Reloads" and the idiot couldn't hit an elephant in the a$$ with an RPG! Your carry choice is your own and you should carry what and how and how many you like but I'll struggle by with my one little .45.

enoch
12-29-2006, 10:58 PM
I live in the country and most of the time I carry only one rig and it's a 9mm CZ OWB strong side. I wear long sleeve black army issue tee's with a lightweight vest over and it keeps me from printing. I'm good as long as I'm not in church with all those loving hugging christians grabbing me. I do on occasions carry two 9mm's or one 40 xd strong side OWB with two backup mags weakside and one 9mm shoulder rig with one mag backup. I only carry that much gear if I'm in and around the city or going to a fair or somewhere where there is alot of teenager biker druggie types likely to be around. In church I carry IWB 9mm Star at 1 o'clock. Nobody's going to touch me there cept my wife and she's hip to what I'm doing. I grew up in the big city like Detroit. If I lived there you can bet I'd always have at least two guns two knives a couple of handgrenades, a few m/cocktails and possibly an AK stuffed down my pants. ;)

Lawrence Keeney
12-30-2006, 07:23 AM
There is one certain time when I am sure I'd be carrying two guns.

In a disaster, like a tornado, or Katrina, or a SHTF situation, when a neighborhood is still substantially standing, and there are numerous homeowners there guarding their property.

Tensions will be high, and if there are both LEOs about, and the chance of looters, I will not be going anywhere unarmed.

If there are law officers disarming people like they did in nola, it would be a bad idea to be walking around in the neighborhood with my SKS, but my G17 and G26 under my photographers vest with six mags are certainly a viable options.

These are enough to fight my way to my door, where the real artillery is located.:D


In fact, if I lived in a storm area, I would probably own two compact revolvers or subcompact autos with right and left holsters for that exact purpose.

John W in SC
12-30-2006, 08:26 AM
My primary is a 5" 1911 strong side iwb, with a spare mag or two on the belt weak side. BUG is usually a 642 in one of several locations.

Why several locations for the BUG? So that it can do things the primary can't. For example, I often have it in a vest or jacket pocket over my heart, where I can reach it while driving, even wearing a seat belt and bulky coat. It also goes in a trench coat or heavy winter coat in an outer or inner pocket, left side or right, where I can reach it more easily than my iwb primary. Sometimes I use a Kel-Tec P-11 instead of the 642.

So, how do I get two different BUGs to fit several different size pockets, in different locations, on both the left and the right? I use a "pocket convertable" holster from K&D. You can see it at http://kdholsters.com/basefile/pdc.html.

The basic convertable starts as a leather pouch that can go in a front pocket. You then add a snap-on anti-print panel to either the right or left side. I ordered two holsters, one for each possible BUG. I also ordered anti-print panels for each, in two different sizes, to fit just about any pocket, and in left and right side versions. I now have a holster system for two BUGs that permits all sorts of carry combinations. (Kevin at K&D was a big help in working out the details of the system, and the quality is first rate. No, I don't have a financial interest in the business.)

Yes, I would be better off doing things the same way every time. But I don't dress the same way every time, so I need different options for different situations, such as summer or winter and casual or dressy. I'd also like to stick with one caliber and even one action type, but I haven't found a BUG as small, light, snag free and reliable as a 642 that shoots .45 acp from full size 1911 mags and is as comfortable to shoot as a full size gun.

John W in SC

Fredo
12-30-2006, 08:53 AM
Evan Marshall carries four. I certainly wouldn't criticize a guy who spent his police career in Detroit, but that seems a bit much to me. I can't visualize a situation where you would need that many. :confused:

CR Williams
12-30-2006, 09:19 AM
Actually, Marshall wears five normally; he cuts down to three when he has to dress up. I think I understand his reasoning, though I doubt I'll follow his example that closely. I'm working out my own logistics about carrying a pair of 9mms right now; still don't know what I'll settle on for that.

MTS
12-30-2006, 09:48 AM
Actually, Marshall wears five normally; he cuts down to three when he has to dress up. I think I understand his reasoning, though I doubt I'll follow his example that closely. I'm working out my own logistics about carrying a pair of 9mms right now; still don't know what I'll settle on for that.

Might be a bit of overcompenstaion. He got caught short once in a off-duty shootout when he only had a revolver and no reloads.

JohnH11B
12-30-2006, 11:22 AM
I used to carry a 642 in a pocket holster, but I always felt like a I had a big rock in my pocket and just the other day I tried it again in Dockers and everytime I stepped forward with the leg the gun was in I could see it, even though it was in a pocket holster. I am trying to find a way to carry it all of the time right now. Luckily it's jacket/coat weather so I slip it in to one of those pockets. But, being Texas, the jacket weather will go away very soon.
Me and ankle holsters don't get along and I don't want to buy my pants big enough to carry 2 IWB. I look like I have big hollow baggy spot in the seat of them right now, much less if I buy them even bigger.
Not to highjack the thread(which I have already done), but any suggestions?

ChuteTheMall
12-30-2006, 12:22 PM
Sew in deeper pockets?

DonGlock26
12-30-2006, 07:10 PM
I carry a P-220R(duty holster) and a P232(vest) why on patrol. Off duty, I use one high quality pisto(P229/G-26)l with a reload and a folding knife.

badgerw
12-30-2006, 08:18 PM
Mr. Hambrick -

I can offer my experience.

I carry a 3" 1911 in a Tucker Gunleather "The Answer" IWB holster at about 3:30, supported by a Liger gunbelt.

My BUG is a Colt Mustang Pocketlite in a Ken Null ankle holster. If you've been unhappy with ankle rigs because they don't feel secure or are uncomfortable, look for a better quality one. Ken Null's is great. I've heard great stuff about Lou Alessi's work, too.

My other suggestion is a J-frame in one of Ken Null's shoulder holsters. I'm planning to get a Null SKR for my 642.

Bill

MNBurl
12-30-2006, 11:12 PM
At times I carry 3 guns but nomally 2.

3 guns would be one on each hip and one in a back or coat pocket

2 guns would be one primary right side and secondary/BUG on the left side. OR Smartcarry and bug in front left pocket.

CR Williams
12-31-2006, 07:12 AM
Might be a bit of overcompenstaion. He got caught short once in a off-duty shootout when he only had a revolver and no reloads.

That would lead me toward overcompensation and I'm not even an ex-Detroit cop!

CR Williams
12-31-2006, 07:15 AM
Can my pistol break? Sure, my car can break too but I don't carry a Yugo in the trunk!

I don't think you've a wimp or an idiot for carrying one, but your anology there doesn't hold. You can't fit a Yugo in the trunk, but you can fit a second gun somewhere on your person.

There is an idea, though...a folding bicycle in the trunk, or one of those little-bitty scooters in the van. I could see some utility in that...

Rammer
12-31-2006, 08:23 AM
I always carry at least two. At work I carry g27 in the rf pocket and a 357 snub in the lf pocket. That way I can access a gun with either hand if the other hand is busy or injured. Outside of work I will usually discard one of the pocket guns and supplement with a g23 owb strongside.

7677
12-31-2006, 10:19 AM
To each their own but carrying five handguns IMHO is little over kill. Especially if you give up caliber size in order to carry five of them. When I worked patrol in Dallas, I carried Sig 226 and a Glock 19. I later switched to a Glock 31 and Glock 33 with a Mossburg 500 in the cruzier when I worked for the county. I liked the G31 and 33 combo because it gave me 27 rounds before I needed to reload and the G31 magazines worked in both guns.

I've worked all of the big events in Detroit and while it reminds me of South Dallas I can't see having to carry five handguns. When I know I'm going into those types of neighborhoods, I take a shotgun or carbine to in addition to my G19 and G26 combo instead of another pistol. With that said, a airweight J frame revolver makes a nice addition in a jacket pocket during the winter months.

ChuteTheMall
12-31-2006, 02:15 PM
This crazy old coot carried 8, and none of them hi-caps:



http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3961/boondocksaints5japja4.jpg

I guess you can't believe everything you saw in The Boondock Saints.:D

Rex G
01-01-2007, 02:18 AM
In private citizen clothing, an SP101 on each hip, in Milt Sparks PMK holsters, is normal, with a larger .357 sometimes taking the place of one SP101. The larger .357 might ride on the hip or in a Wilderness Safepacker. Even before we started hosting the better part of 200,000 storm refugees, armed robberies by teams were starting to occur, and now it's an everyday thing. It is not unusual for me to carry three revolvers. From 2002 to 2004, I carried a G22 as a duty pistol, and a G27 as backup, and when in plainclothes carried one on each hip. If I wanted to carry only one Glock, I went up in power and carried a G29. In 2004 I switched to a SIG P229R DAK as a duty pistol, and reverted to an SP101 for backup, and acquired an Alessi ankle rig, but usually only wear the ankle rig in uniform. Going back in time again, until mid-80's to 2002, I tended to carry only one pistol when on my own time, but it was usually a full-size service-type weapon, with 2+ reloads.

ChicagoPd
01-01-2007, 10:48 AM
Some of you guys are scaring me.4,5 guns? WTF? Where are you, Baghdad? 2 I can see,maybe.

Guantes
01-01-2007, 11:11 AM
Stay away from big magnets.:eek:

Cold War Scout
01-01-2007, 11:15 AM
Two guns is the most I will carry.

I did 3 guns once, one day very early in the career. A S&W model 19 2 1/2" as main gun, right hip. A Chiefs Special 5-shot on left hip. And a Walther PPK/S on my ankle. The reality was that I was just looking for an excuse to carry the James Bond gun, and after the day was over I never tripled up again. It was all an ego thing.

DragonFire
01-01-2007, 11:30 AM
Carrying 5 pistols makes no sense and is rather stupid. The optimum setup will be 2 identical pistols or at least have the SAME caliber and SAME system such as:

Glock 17/19/26
Glock 22/23/27

If you feel the need to carry more than 2 QUALITY pistols, then you'd better get a RIFLE!

weasel
01-01-2007, 11:40 AM
Some of you guys are scaring me.4,5 guns? WTF? Where are you, Baghdad? 2 I can see,maybe.

I agree. You guys must live in third world countries or the U.S. equivalent
dirtball havens. I don't think I'll be moving to your guys neighborhoods any time soon. Good luck. Stay safe!:)

John W in SC
01-01-2007, 11:41 AM
Several years ago a local officer was transporting a prisoner in the back of his car. Things went bad. The officer was down to his third gun before resolving the situation. (Yes, the mainstream media made a big deal out of carrying three guns. But they were authorized by his department, and he did go home at the end of his shift.)

I suspect many of us here are not LE or otherwise at elevated risk. And even most officers go through an entire career without drawing, let alone firing, their duty weapon. I'm sure fewer still fire their backups.

Still, who here wants to tell the wife of the officer mentioned above that he should not have been carrying so many guns?

John W in SC

michael
01-01-2007, 11:53 AM
I rarely carry more than 1 pistol, but don't denegrate those that do.;) Individual needs vary, as do weapons requirements and determining what is optimal for a given situation. As I mentioned before, it is all about evaluating the threat level that YOU face and carrying the tools appropriate to YOUR situation.

If I feel I am in an elevated threat situation for whatever reason, then I may carry 2 pistols. If I know that I am going into a hostile situation, then I either would not go, or would take a rifle/shotgun/insert your favorite weapon.

I always carry 2-3 knives in addition to my pistol (either a S&W 642 or Glock 19), which in the situations and places I find myself should be sufficient.

It is all a matter of balance and what works for you. If you evaluate your threats wrongly, then it is you that will pay the price.

CR Williams
01-01-2007, 12:08 PM
Some of you guys are scaring me.4,5 guns? WTF? Where are you, Baghdad? 2 I can see,maybe.

You're overreacting or don't understand. I was talking about somebody else. They can do what they want according to their evaluation of the potiential threat. So can you. It is a (nominally) free country still, after all.

Marshall was one of the first officers, supposedly, who advocated that LEOs and later civilians carry more than one decent-caliber gun. He got a lot of your reaction then, but a lot of people, LE and not, are alive now because they took his advice. People think I'm crazy sometimes because I wear a gun in the house, until they find out how insignificant my outer doors are to an intruder. Jim Cirillo carried, what, four revolvers back in the day? Of course, to me some parts of New York wouldn't be much different from Baghdad. ;)

Al Lipscomb
01-01-2007, 12:53 PM
Multiple guns has been "normal" for a long time, just in the last 30 years or so did the one gun mentality start to sink in. Most of the older LEOs I know had at least two on them. Back in the days of the revolver you had six and then a problem.

I would rather carry extra ammunition and "tools" than a third handgun. On a night I expect to be "busy" a full loadout would be something like this:

Primary with 12 rounds of .40
Two spare magazines of 11 each (total 34 rounds)
BUG in .40 10 rounds
Spare magazine for BUG with 15 rounds
Primary flashlight
backup flashlight
Primary knife
Backup knife
4 handcuff keys
handcuffs
OC spray
Radio

Stuff starts to get heavy!

Michael Biggs
01-01-2007, 02:22 PM
Carry whatever you are comfortable with, can control and conceal.

CR Williams
01-01-2007, 03:11 PM
Carry whatever you are comfortable with, can control and conceal.

Quick and to the point.:D

Manwell
01-01-2007, 03:41 PM
I carry mi Sig Pro 2340 with one spare 12 round magazine, Surefire P6 and at least two knifes. If I ever get caught needing more than one gun itll suck to be me!

Manwell

zippy
01-01-2007, 05:32 PM
In case someone has not mentioned this yet, the kangaroo carry
works pretty well for an extra pistol. You might get made if you
have to hugh someone, but mine has worked well.

I've also found mine could carry extra ammo too.
I may have to get a 20 round mag for *special* occasions.
I'll bet Yoni could modify one to pack 66 spare rounds
of 9mm. :)

Zippy

weasel
01-01-2007, 06:06 PM
Question for you guys, who carry two or more pistols while working in sometype of uniformed patrol, either police or security operations. Our Chief finally passed a new back-up gun policy this year for the first time. I am looking at getting some type of j-frame wheel gun for my back-up. Just curious on where to place it? I was thinking on either my ankle or under my uniform shirt attached to a vest carrier. Obviously good and bad points to both. Looking for your opinion. :)

Al Lipscomb
01-01-2007, 08:17 PM
Question for you guys, who carry two or more pistols while working in sometype of uniformed patrol, either police or security operations. Our Chief finally passed a new back-up gun policy this year for the first time. I am looking at getting some type of j-frame wheel gun for my back-up. Just curious on where to place it? I was thinking on either my ankle or under my uniform shirt attached to a vest carrier. Obviously good and bad points to both. Looking for your opinion. :)

I carried my BUG set up for a support side draw in a good quality ankle holster. Due to knee problems I moved to a vest holster last week and was very happy with the reduced levels of pain!

I like the ankle holster better because I could access the weapon in a very covert manner while sitting in a cruiser. I chose the support side access because I figured the main reason I would need the BUG was due to the strong side having a problem.

Guantes
01-01-2007, 08:31 PM
Working an area of frequent foot pursuits, I personally did not like ankle holsters. Our nylon field jacket had an inside pocket more or less designed for a "J". It had a small snap flap to prevent accidential droppage. It was either that or a shoulder rig.

michael
01-02-2007, 03:17 AM
I was thinking on either my ankle or under my uniform shirt attached to a vest carrier. Obviously good and bad points to both. Looking for your opinion. :)

Attached to your vest with a simple IWB Uncle Mike's or similar holster This is what I did, and it worked well. You just have to train it, and to be prepared to rip your shirt up to get to it if need be. I liked not having to worry about losing another gun in a struggle, which you do with ankle carry. My old beat partner lost his ankle gun twice in one week during fights. I made him quit carrying it that way, before we both got killed. I do not like ankle carry for patrol use at all.

Al Lipscomb
01-02-2007, 07:12 AM
We don't do foot pursuits at all, but I can see where it could be a real problem while running.

7677
01-02-2007, 07:45 AM
Attached to your vest with a simple IWB Uncle Mike's or similar holster This is what I did, and it worked well. You just have to train it, and to be prepared to rip your shirt up to get to it if need be. I liked not having to worry about losing another gun in a struggle, which you do with ankle carry. My old beat partner lost his ankle gun twice in one week during fights. I made him quit carrying it that way, before we both got killed. I do not like ankle carry for patrol use at all.

...+1 :cool:

weasel
01-02-2007, 09:33 AM
Attached to your vest with a simple IWB Uncle Mike's or similar holster This is what I did, and it worked well. You just have to train it, and to be prepared to rip your shirt up to get to it if need be. I liked not having to worry about losing another gun in a struggle, which you do with ankle carry. My old beat partner lost his ankle gun twice in one week during fights. I made him quit carrying it that way, before we both got killed. I do not like ankle carry for patrol use at all.

I think that was my biggest concern; losing it during a fight. I figure fights occur more frequently and the risk of of someone grabbing it or having it fall out are greater than my immediate need to to access a second weapon. I would hate to loose it during the run of mill disordely person call or during a foot chase. Thanks guys for your input I appreciate it.:D

MACOP
01-02-2007, 01:10 PM
This is my first post in awhile.

But, to give my 2 cents on weasel's question, I would suggest vest carry under your strong side arm. This makes it accesable to your weak hand.

Currently I carry my j frame in the kangaroo pouch. But the new vest being issued does not have that pouch so I am going to the method described above. I did it when I first came on the job and it works well.

DonGlock26
01-03-2007, 09:03 PM
I carry my back-up(P232 or G-26) in a IWB holster under my shirt in the vest straps. Works for me. Second choice would be a j frame in the weak side pants pocket.

Guantes
01-03-2007, 09:14 PM
Cool ideas. They never occurred to me as we didn't have vests.

fenrix43
01-04-2007, 06:27 AM
I carry a Taurus PT745 in a fobus holster strong side and a G26 in a smart carry, one extra mag each. I would not carry in an ankle holster, for the simple fact it takes away the ability to be on the move while drawing.

Randy Harris
01-04-2007, 10:37 AM
I generally carry two pistols. 99% of the time it will be a full size Glock and a 10.5 oz SW342. Unless wardrobe considerations conspire against me I will carry a high cap fullsize pistol. That is just what I choose to do. Not saying that you (or I) couldn't get by just fine with something else, but my opinion is that I would be better served with a fullsize gun that holds alot of bullets.And I carry a spare mag.

Why the J frame then? I look at it more like the old west gunfighter looked at the deringer. A concealable pistol that can be carried in any number of places on the body that can be either used as a backup gun in case of malfunction, a backup gun in case of running out of ammo (HIGHLY unlikely) or simply as an "auxilliary gun" to augment the primary-that is how I view the SW J frame. I can carry it in a pocket easier than virtually anything else. Yes I know I'm not going to get it out quickly from a pocket mid-fight, but I feel it makes up for this in the ability to covertly palm it BEFORE the fight and have no one be the wiser. And besides I have other options to access midfight that are easier to get to than the pocket carried gun.

I generally do not carry spare ammo for the SW342. "Oh NO! surely you don't mean that" you gasp! Well, for ME the time that I would have spent reloading the Jframe DURING A FLUID MOVING CONFRONTATION would be better spent GETTING AWAY! Sorry ,but I'm not Jerry Michelik, reloading a full size moon clip fed revolver under range conditions. I'll be trying to reload from a speed strip or speed loader while trying to not be bludgeoned, shot or stabbed. And this is AFTER I have emptied the full size glock and the reload for it! So lets keep things in perspective. Better yet, try it in FOF and tell me how that works for you.

Now I know some are saying "then why not carry a G26 that uses same mags as your G34 and holds more ammo". Well, you have some valid points there. And back when I thought guns could solve ALL your problems I might have said the same thing. But within touching range the knife (or sap or blackjack) is often going to be a better choice than the gun. Not all problems are shooting problems, and few problems encountered in CIVILLIAN life are MULTIPLE GUN problems. I am trying to not be weighed down with accoutrements. Some of us walk around like we are in downtown Baghdad. Back when everyone carried revolvers this might make more sense. But with magazine fed pistols......I think we might be trying to carry too much. I've seen guys that will drown if they fall in a puddle from all the iron they carry. For ME in my circumstances, the 10 oz. Jframe is a better compromise. If my circumstances change I will reevaluate. For now though, I'll simply muddle through with my present gear.

yellowdog762
01-04-2007, 04:42 PM
To answer the original post: I often carry a G23 on the strong side in or outside the waistband and I almost always carry a Kel-Tec .380 on the ankle. I like the ankle rig as I can wear it with jeans and a tee shirt or slacks with a button down shirt. Id PREFER to have the G23 in a fight but Id also rather have the poodle shooter on the ankle than nothing. I am about to acquire Comp-Tacs neck rig for the Kel-Tec.

I checked several ankle rigs and chose one by Jag Wear. They have a support strap that goes above the calf and a Velcro strap that secures the pistol in the holster. You will probably have to shorten the strap to make it fit just right though. I cut the spare part I trimmed off into two pieces, one to feed through the key ring attachment on a small LED light and the second piece to stop the light from flopping when I walked and ran. I chose a red LED thinking that I could use the light w/o ruining my night vision and some perp might mistake the LED for a laser and thus be a little more intimated.

I also stitched a second piece of Velcro over the slot designed to hold a spare mag as the elastic got tired and the mag fell out twice, both times going rapidly down stairs. There is also room to tuck in a CRKT M-16 folding knife. I have run, ascended and descended stairs rapidly and completed several two day shooting schools with this rig. Zero failures.

My logic behind carrying two pistols when I am able:
1) I may be disarmed before I can deploy my main pistol and perhaps the bad guy wont think to look for a second weapon.
2) My rig rides high enough on my leg that it is conceivable that someone binding my ankles MIGHT not note the second weapon esp if it is a coworker/co-hostage forced to tie up fellow hostages. I then have a knife and pistol that I can reach with my hands bound behind my back.
3) I could arm an assistant/spouse or someone that I trusted.
4) (Distant fourth) Backup in case of malf or loss due to a fall.

Before I added a third pistol I would be sure to have at least one spare mag for each pistol, two knives and two lights with at least one being a super bright lithium type light. Personally, Id probably even add pepper spray before adding a 3rd pistol.

To be very clear, I prefer to have a G23 or other real gun on me but I often have the Kel-Tec when I would not otherwise be armed. If I KNEW that I was going to need a pistol then Id take a rifle or just not even show up. J

dogfacedan
01-06-2007, 01:28 PM
I was going to comment on the " binding my ankles" but it's almost time for my meds.

yellowdog762
01-10-2007, 07:26 PM
Don't knock it until you try it! :)

ckd
01-11-2007, 12:08 PM
+1 to Cruel Hand Luke's postion and EDC.

Nanuk
01-12-2007, 04:31 PM
I carry a H&K P2000 and 2 extra mags in a Galco shoulder holster, and a S&W 360 PD strong side appendix. If going into a hight threat area that I know of in advance I add an H&K USP/C at 5 oclock. Both H&K's are .40 and use the same mags, the 357 is loaded with DPX's. I work plain clothes 99% of the time.

Nomad, 2nd
01-14-2007, 03:26 PM
The Marine Corps tought me:
3 is 2
2 is 1
1 is None.

I carry a 1911 (3 spair mags) and a S&W .357 with one speed strip.
(One avalable to each hand incase one is incapacitated.)
Also, I can have my hand wraped around the .357 w/o it being seen.

If I were a cop I'd have a last ditch mousegun.

Grasshopper.vs.Ant
01-15-2007, 01:30 PM
I carry two pistols on me when working. I carry a G22 and a G27. The G27 is not really for rention of the primary but if I have a catasaprohic gun malfunction I can still use the bullets on my belt. I do not think I will ever need the second gun but there is a Fire Extinquisher in my POV and one in my Kitchen and I do not intend on using those either.

Rention I think a weak side knife could do wonders for you.

The guys who carry Multiple, Multi guns I do not agree with. I fight on the ground WAY WAY WAY WAY more than I shoot people. IF I have a gun on the ankle, one on the strong side, one on the weak side and a mouse gun somewhere's else.. that is ALOT of sides to watch for gun grabs trying to get bubba to "Come along quietly."

TWO guns is plenty to try and keep in mind when I am dosing out bruises, abrasions and lacerations.

Just my .02

warlordct
01-15-2007, 08:28 PM
I always carry 2 handguns. Either a 1911 (Taurus PT1911) or Beretta M9 2+1 mags and a Charter Bulldog (44 Special, I use Magsafe SWAT 94gr, 1500fps).

Erik
01-18-2007, 01:48 PM
Usually a "duty" pistol somewhere and a J frame somewhere else.

Every now and then a Seacamp just because...

62-10
01-18-2007, 04:26 PM
There's a time & place to have the appropriate number of tools onboard, given the risks/threats of where one goes &/or what one does. That said, one who doesn't first address their own personal health risk factors, regularly consumes/ingests/inhales excessive known harmful substances, doesn't routinely wear a seatbelt, doesn't have a working smoke detector in the home, &/or has no basic medical skills might be better served to reconsider the long-term utility of taking multiple guns to the shower vs. the attention devoted to those other things.

sg4x4fordtough
01-18-2007, 06:02 PM
well lets see right now i have a sig p220 in a strongside and a heckler and koch in a shoulder holster. plus a seecamp .32acp in my pocket. along with 2 surefire lights 2 asp batons one in each suit jacket pocket. two cell phones a pda, and not to mention 2 benchmade knives so i guess i agree with the multiple gun concept. lets not forget just for good measure my 2 notebooks running right now.:)

Nanuk
01-18-2007, 06:14 PM
There's a time & place to have the appropriate number of tools onboard, given the risks/threats of where one goes &/or what one does. That said, one who doesn't first address their own personal health risk factors, regularly consumes/ingests/inhales excessive known harmful substances, doesn't routinely wear a seatbelt, doesn't have a working smoke detector in the home, &/or has no basic medical skills might be better served to reconsider the long-term utility of taking multiple guns to the shower vs. the attention devoted to those other things.


HUH???? I think you took this a little out of context.

62-10
01-18-2007, 08:05 PM
HUH???? I think you took this a little out of context.

Perhaps so.

Eric
01-28-2007, 05:01 PM
Referencing http://www.warriortalk.com/showpost.php?p=14921&postcount=4 , and considering that there are no 'rules' or limits to when you are defending your life in a gunfight, that we live in a 360 degree environment, and that we are all capable of firing a weapon accurately from one hand be it primary or secondary hand with practice and training invested, how many of you would use a gun in each hand?

I train leftie/rightie in MA for all tachnique; two handed with nunchaku, sai and Butterfly swords; so one sidearm in each hand seems quite natural to me. Have practiced at the range with them, but never firing at 2 targets at the same time. Range master would skin me alive! :eek:

Re carry rig, I've given this much thought of late. I would gravitate towards a Galco Jackass rig for my H&K USP, with a IWB for my Glock 30 carried SOB (gonna try the Galco Walkabout for this). Seems to me that the 2 modes of carry will keep either from becoming overly conspicuous. And IWB in the SOB allows weapon dreaw with either hand.

Even been giving thought to adding a Cold Steel tanto to the mix along with my 4" Cold Steel Voyage that I practically sleep with. Hope to carry the tanto on the weak side, attached to the underside of the mag carrier. Not sure if this will work, but worth looking into.

But I'd only do this for BOB situations as it seems like way overkill for the nightly run to the stop-n-rob. Normal circumstances, seems to me the GLock 30 w/extra mag in the same carrier, along with the 4" Voyager and H2H training would be enough for civilian uses.

HiWayMan
01-29-2007, 07:02 AM
I've just recently started carrying two Js, mainly cause I just bought a second. A S&W 49 setup as a "Werner" (ie Hip-Grip, Tyler T, and A Hand-all Jr.) goes at 1 o'clock and is accessible to either hand. The primary is a Taurus 651 carried IWB at 4 o'clock.

While wearing my heavy winter coat they can be placed in the two inside pockets for a psuedo sholder holster effect. Also work well in pants pockets and elsewhere. Two Js offer a startling amount of versatility.

Tactical556
01-29-2007, 08:04 AM
Great reads in here folks, me personally I carry a .40, Surefire G2, 2 folders, one short and one long.

Like some said before, if I feel an elevated threat then I will be armed with a long gun of some sort. My primary vehicle always has a long gun ready to go inside it.

Also I too find it hard to conceal at say Wally-world or the mall or something along those lines when in street clothing and no jacket, So I end up either not carrying the pistol and just the knife or I try to conceal it thru an un-tucked shirt, but that usually leave me to imprinting on the outside of the shirt.

DragonRider
01-29-2007, 04:08 PM
It is nice to see this thread progress over the years. Back when I wrote the original post, it was mainly in the hope of seeing the methods that people carry and where they carry. Now this is dictated by a number of factors. Carrying 2 guns as a police officer is vastly different than a person with CCW.

Part of my reason for wanting to know how to carry multiple pistols are various. 1 is my wife can shoot very well, but doesn't choose to carry often, also 2 of my daughters shoot very well, 1 in competition. Now giving them a pistol if the SHTF is not a primary reason in my book to carry 2 or more guns.

The ability of Yoni to carry what he did/does vs someone else is not the issue, but the method he makes it work is more what I am after. Hearing methods is what a forum is all about and for people to take and choose.

With appendix carry I can make carrying multiple pistols much easier, but it depends on the situation. When using a shoulder harness, I have the problem of the mags under my right arm banging into the primary at the normal CCW position, due to the length of the mags. Primary being a G17 or G19 and the Secondary being a G19 or G26. If carrying the G17, the size of the spare mags is dictacted quite clearly. Carrying the G19 as Primary, my options for the spare mags have more possiblities.

Appendix is still a work in progress. Carrying a 2nd pistol at 6-7 with a primary at 3:30-4 doens't work due to the way of the holsters making my pants loose. Holsters are either CTAC or Sidearmor.

Just some thoughts. Thanks for the interesting discussions.

John