The CIA is hiring

[Shdwdncr]

The CIA Recruits Spies on the Radio

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/nws/p/time_logo_101.jpg (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/time/brand/SIG=8rhvp9/*http://www.time.com)

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20090316/capt.photo_1237239264281-1-0.jpg?x=213&y=139&xc=2&yc=1&wc=408&hc=266&q=85&sig=qodQQEgz5SvlEAsdIfakow-- (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/intelligence-agency/photo//090316/photos_pl_afp/26c3883bac2147ce90b815b67101a176//s:/time/20090330/us_time/08599188817500)The CIA symbol is shown on the floor of its headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

By BOBBY GHOSH / WASHINGTON
Mon Mar 30, 6:55 pm ET

Being a spy may involve assumed identities and coded messages, but becoming a spy isn't exactly top-secret business. These days, in fact, all you have to do if you're interested in this particular career path is turn up your radio. The CIA is running ads on stations across the country for jobs in its clandestine service.

"Are you a person of curiosity and integrity?" asks one spot. "Are you ready for a world of challenge ... a world of ambiguity and adventure?"

The agency won't say how much it's spending on the ad campaign, but CIA spokesman George Little told TIME via e-mail, "We continue to seek highly qualified candidates to support the mission of America's premier intelligence agency." (See the top 10 Secret Service code names. (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/time/us_time/storytext/08599188817500/31487410/SIG=12k4kio8u/*http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1860482_1860481,00.html))

The campaign is the first by the agency under its new director, Leon Panetta (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/time/us_time/storytext/08599188817500/31487410/SIG=120qlgvha/*http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1877956,00.html), who has said he would like to recruit more people with foreign-language skills as well as more minorities.

The agency is not lacking for applicants; it gets more than 100,000 rÉsumÉs a year, and the number is growing fast. Little says if current trends hold, there may be a 40% to 50% increase in applications this year over 2008.

But the sheer volume of applications masks some of the agency's recruiting problems (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/time/us_time/storytext/08599188817500/31487410/SIG=120j8aada/*http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1838089,00.html). In a roundtable discussion with journalists last month, Panetta noted that less than 13% of his staff have foreign-language skills, and 22% are from minority communities. "I'd like to get to a point where every analyst and operations officer is trained in a foreign language," he said. Panetta also said he'd like to increase the number of minorities at the agency to 30%, "so that we resemble America." And he acknowledged the need for "better outreach for Muslims, Arabs, African Americans and Latinos." (Read "Six Ways to Fix the CIA." (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/time/us_time/storytext/08599188817500/31487410/SIG=120j8aada/*http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1838089,00.html))

The outreach program is already underway. Earlier this month, the CIA's third highest-ranking official, Scott White, held meetings with leaders of the Arab-American and Chaldean-American communities in Detroit. "In communities with large numbers of first- and second-generation Americans, we want the message conveyed loud and clear that we welcome their interest in employment with the agency, especially given their language skills and knowledge of other cultures," says Little.

The agency is also looking to reduce its dependence on outside contractors, which increased dramatically after 9/11. "I think we have to bring those capabilities in-house," Panetta said.

The CIA holds about 2,000 recruiting events a year, many of them at colleges and universities. It also advertises, selectively, on television, in print and even on airport billboards. The outreach extends to new media as well. For the past two years, the agency has used a Facebook page as a recruitment medium. Its TV ads can also be seen on YouTube (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/time/us_time/storytext/08599188817500/31487410/SIG=11ugqonup/*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ThJ0wxKZnI%26feature=related).

CIA officials say all this effort is bearing fruit. "We are on track to meet the hiring goals set forth by former President Bush in 2004, which mandated that we increase by 50% the number of CIA officers in certain job occupations, such as intelligence analysts and clandestine officers," says Little.

[austin]

The problem is that the CIA requires a degree to get good pay and chances for promotion.

There are a lot of talented minorities and immigrant patriots who would love to work for the Agency, but because they do not have that degree, would be paid chickensh** wages and would not get their talents fully rewarded.

The CIA has to change how it pays and promotes people.

And this is not just a problem with the CIA, but affects all US businesses and agencies. There are tons of talented people with no degrees who are really good at what they do.

[shootintexan]

Tell me about it!! 30+ years field experience so I get to train the degreed project managers. Actually, I'd rather be out on the construction site.

[Vinnie Moscaritolo]

you could always seek a degree while working for the company.

[austin]

you could always seek a degree while working for the company.

That is true, but its not realistic for field agents or cover agents to work on their degree. And the posting tempo or work hours precludes most people from doing it at home in the USA.

[Vinnie Moscaritolo]

do it online, most colleges support a good online program

[David Welch]

The biggest problem our three letter intelligence agencies have, is that they still have an aversion to hiring that particular type of person that it needs the most for field work. It's almost like they profiled what would be their perfect field agents, and then set up a screening process designed to exclude them.

[LMarshall73]

Not to hijack, but a degree shouldn't mean squat.

Exhibit A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5tXMLI-OsI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5tXMLI-OsI)

Unfortunately, my voice in DC. :dope:

Born in Jacksonville, Florida, Brown attended Florida A&M University, from which she received a bachelor's in sociology and a master's degree in education[1], and the University of Florida, where she was awarded an educational specialist degree. She received a Communications/Speech degree from Edward Waters College in Jacksonville, and has been on the faculty at the latter two schools and at Florida Community College at Jacksonville. (source - Wikipedia)

[/hijack]

[judomayhem]

The biggest problem our three letter intelligence agencies have, is that they still have an aversion to hiring that particular type of person that it needs the most for field work. It's almost like they profiled what would be their perfect field agents, and then set up a screening process designed to exclude them.


Straight up. Warriors tend to be violent, and difficult to control at times.
Better to send a letter to a Harvard Law grad's parents telling them of his unfortunate demise than to get reports of shenanigans out in the field. ;)
My Great-Aunt was OSS and a founding member of the CIA. I remember being scared of her as a kid, as her glares would skin a cat. d:mad:b :eek: As she lay on her deathbed back in the mid 90's she went in and out of cohesion. Said some rather interesting things.

[isis07734]

I think if you have what they are looking for the will overlook a lack of "degree". When it comes to this, the CIA seems to have more wiggle room than say, the FBI. IMO>

[The Bad Guy]

I am interested. My only experience in this subject is that I like Vince Flynn and Brad Thor novels

[kahvey]

Straight up. Warriors tend to be violent, and difficult to control at times.
Better to send a letter to a Harvard Law grad's parents telling them of his unfortunate demise than to get reports of shenanigans out in the field. ;)
My Great-Aunt was OSS and a founding member of the CIA. I remember being scared of her as a kid, as her glares would skin a cat. d:mad:b :eek: As she lay on her deathbed back in the mid 90's she went in and out of cohesion. Said some rather interesting things.


I think there is a misunderstanding of what type of person is being hired by the agency for what kind of jobs. The trigger-pullers have always been drawn from the ranks of established operators in the military for the VAST majority of hires. Degrees and education have little pull on that side of things. For your case officer-types, education is very very valuable. These are the people who will be running agents, making contacts, gathering and reporting info, etc. Most definitely having cultural background or language skills in the respective AOR is helpful, but the reason a Harvard dude is a hot commodity in the IC is that he/she has already demonstrated a huge desire to succeed, a keen intellect, a marked ability to learn, and the guts to stick with something to the end. That's a bit harder to quantify for those without a degree, make sense? Obviously we all know a few people from Ivy Leagues who are morons without common sense, but those types tend to weed themselves out of the hiring process.

As for warriors being violent, sure, when called for. Difficult to control at times? Those types don't go too far, at least as far as SOF, operators, or fighter pilots are concerned. Discipline makes for a good killer, not psychosis.

[Anthony]

The problem is that the CIA requires a degree to get good pay and chances for promotion.

There are a lot of talented minorities and immigrant patriots who would love to work for the Agency, but because they do not have that degree, would be paid chickensh** wages and would not get their talents fully rewarded.

The CIA has to change how it pays and promotes people.

And this is not just a problem with the CIA, but affects all US businesses and agencies. There are tons of talented people with no degrees who are really good at what they do.You could very well be talking about Brazil my friend.

No degree here and you can do squat!

I cannot apply for many jobs that I would no doubt find interesting, - Federal Police, for example, through lack of a degree.

And I have sat and talked with some pretty dumb Federal Police agents! :rolleyes:

I do not know when the degree suddenly seemed to have so much value around the world!?

Back when I left school in 1976/77, one only went to university if one's chosen profession required a degree. - Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, Dentist etc.

Such is life these days.

But we are seeing more and more, favoratism for degrees over life's experiences.
This does not bode well for the future IMHO.

Some of the stupidest questions I have heard have come from people with degrees! :eek:

Regards,
Anthony.

[Chevalier]

Good comments Anthony (I must say I always enjoy reading your posts).

As someone who worked as a headhunter (recruiter) for a year, I can tell you that a lot of companies use degrees to screen people out. They get so many resumes for open positions that they just use it as a tool to reduce the number of resumes that they need to look through. As many have pointed out, it is a truly stupid process and requirement - especially given the quality of higher education these days.

If I was running a business, I would want the best person that I could find for that particular position. I would care if they dropped out of high school.

Oh well...I don't make the rules...yet!

[gojira357]

I think there is a misunderstanding of what type of person is being hired by the agency for what kind of jobs.

This is spot on. They are not looking for James Bond to infiltrate enemy bases via air ducts to steal the latest stealth plane. They are looking for people who can get other people to get the information they need. Yes, they do need trigger pullers, but they won't put an ad in the paper for those types.

The other thing is that they are not looking for are Boy Scouts.

[sine timore]

Former CIA agent Robert baer has a summer home down the street from my house. I have shot the bull with him many times, and despite his liberal leanings he seems to have had a very interesting life.
As far as the wet work - he told me we hire the Brits to do most of that.

[Anthony]

As far as the wet work - he told me we hire the Brits to do most of that.I can believe that for sure.

Regards,
Anthony.

[David Welch]

I think there is a misunderstanding of what type of person is being hired by the agency for what kind of jobs. The trigger-pullers have always been drawn from the ranks of established operators in the military for the VAST majority of hires. Degrees and education have little pull on that side of things. For your case officer-types, education is very very valuable. These are the people who will be running agents, making contacts, gathering and reporting info, etc. Most definitely having cultural background or language skills in the respective AOR is helpful, but the reason a Harvard dude is a hot commodity in the IC is that he/she has already demonstrated a huge desire to succeed, a keen intellect, a marked ability to learn, and the guts to stick with something to the end. That's a bit harder to quantify for those without a degree, make sense? Obviously we all know a few people from Ivy Leagues who are morons without common sense, but those types tend to weed themselves out of the hiring process.

As for warriors being violent, sure, when called for. Difficult to control at times? Those types don't go too far, at least as far as SOF, operators, or fighter pilots are concerned. Discipline makes for a good killer, not psychosis.

I'm not talking about trigger pullers.

I'm talking about HUMINT. Our HUMINT capacities are still woefully inadequate, in part due to the fact that we refuse to hire the right people for the job. Even before 911 it was publicly admitted that we had let our HUMINT deteriorate to the point of uselessness because of that and an idiotic over reliance on SIGINT and other technology based intelligence gathering methods.

After 911, the hearings placed blame in part due to government policies that forbid our intelligence agencies from hiring "shady people".

"The other thing is that they are not looking for are Boy Scouts."

No, they want to hire Eagle Scouts, send them into pits of vipers, and then expect them to blend in.

[kahvey]

I'm not talking about trigger pullers.

I'm talking about HUMINT. Our HUMINT capacities are still woefully inadequate, in part due to the fact that we refuse to hire the right people for the job. Even before 911 it was publicly admitted that we had let our HUMINT deteriorate to the point of uselessness because of that and an idiotic over reliance on SIGINT and other technology based intelligence gathering methods.

After 911, the hearings placed blame in part due to government policies that forbid our intelligence agencies from hiring "shady people".

"The other thing is that they are not looking for are Boy Scouts."

No, they want to hire Eagle Scouts, send them into pits of vipers, and then expect them to blend in.

My previous quote was in reference to this thread which is discussing the CIA's recruiting efforts for organic hired resources. People on the GS system trained and beholden to Langley with shiny plastic badges and houses in northern Virginia.

If memory serves me, the problem wasn't with the hiring of 'shady' case officers, it was that the agency didn't want to associate with shady foreign agents. There was a concern that buying information from criminals or terrorists gets the agency's hands a bit dirty. Its true that you probably need some dirty dudes if you want to penetrate a small terror cell. You can't just hire a clean-cut Egyptian businessman and expect him to start pulling info from a PIJ cell commander. You'd more likely have to find a dude who has already cut a few throats. Those guys are hard sells, both to exploit/recruit and to sell it to higher-ups that you'd be associated with such types. Supposedly we're getting better at it, but I'd wager a guess we're simply tossing around suitcases full of money to get things done.

[judomayhem]

[quote=kahvey;700965] For your case officer-types, education is very very valuable. These are the people who will be running agents, making contacts, gathering and reporting info, etc. Most definitely having cultural background or language skills in the respective AOR is helpful, but the reason a Harvard dude is a hot commodity in the IC is that he/she has already demonstrated a huge desire to succeed, a keen intellect, a marked ability to learn, and the guts to stick with something to the end. That's a bit harder to quantify for those without a degree, make sense? Obviously we all know a few people from Ivy Leagues who are morons without common sense, but those types tend to weed themselves out of the hiring process.

quote]

This bogus line of reasoning only became prevalent post WW2. Post Vietnam, really. It was developed by managers (generally not warriors or business owners) and has contributed to a talent shortage in corporate, govt, and churches across America. Ford wasn't bankrupt when Henry would only surround himself with men who had come up through the ranks. I will probably not hire another AMERICAN college grad as they have proven themselves to be consistently arrogant, immoral, lazy, stupid, or some combination thereof. My biggest professional regret is that I waited until my senior year in college to drop out. Better late than never, I guess.
As to a Harvard grad being a hot commodity for the intel community....
the street punks that I used to run with as a kid in L.A. would have been able to deduce 9/11 beforehand given the readily available info coming through the wire. When someone with a violent past threatens you, believe them at their word and strike preemptivly. Which class at a godless socialist hotbed Ivy school teaches that in a lab environment? Evidently none. And if there was a contingent in the alphabet soup organizations that knew this attack was imminent, maybe they should have had more "guts to stick with" proclaiming this until they were heard loud and clear by those with the power to act. This is not meant as a direct slam against the couragous men and women who have sacrificed to keep us safe from post 9/11 attempts, but rather the irrational structure in place that limits the talent pool.

[badLT]

My own $0.02

The CIA is now actively pursuing MBA students from Big 10 schools. They are holding info sessions to attract students. With the economy in the state it is in now, it is one of the few info info sessions held by a major employer.

Should I ask if they let us use Aston Martins that shoot rockets?:dope::D

[The Shadow]

Well one thing we shouldn't do is hire under any circumstances and that's MUSLIMS!!!!!!!

I don't care if there Second, Third or Fiftieth generation Americans and that's if you can call them Americans, (phooey wash mouth out with Bourbon on second thought lets not waste good Booze.)

As long as they prescribe to there religion of *PEACE THEY CAN NOT BE TRUSTED BECAUSE THERE LOYALTIES ARE TO ALLAH (phooey wash mouth out with soap there that's better.)

[Dr_Dave]

...

I do not know when the degree suddenly seemed to have so much value around the world!?

Back when I left school in 1976/77, one only went to university if one's chosen profession required a degree. - Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, Dentist etc.
...


Anthony, my brother. From somebody who has more alphabet soup behind his name than a can of Campbell's Alphabet soup the answer is simple. The longer you're in school the more they can brainwash you. I see it all the time. Students' spitting back what the Prof wants to hear. No thought of their own, just spitting back the garbage. My students hate me. I force them to think, talk about kicking and screaming.
The powers like little sheeple, reason the 3 letter groups don't hire warriors. We think.

[michael]

I hate the whole idea of needing a degree to land "the job". I have always viewed them as necessary for only certain professions like law, physician, accountant, etc. That said, I have made the decision to finish mine to increase my future opportunities.

[Francisp]

I'm not talking about trigger pullers.

I'm talking about HUMINT. Our HUMINT capacities are still woefully inadequate, in part due to the fact that we refuse to hire the right people for the job. Even before 911 it was publicly admitted that we had let our HUMINT deteriorate to the point of uselessness because of that and an idiotic over reliance on SIGINT and other technology based intelligence gathering methods.

After 911, the hearings placed blame in part due to government policies that forbid our intelligence agencies from hiring "shady people".

"The other thing is that they are not looking for are Boy Scouts."

No, they want to hire Eagle Scouts, send them into pits of vipers, and then expect them to blend in.


I resent that. I was an eagle scout. Baden Powell was a member of British intelligence. I've done too many things i'm not proud of, and have learned things from a number of pretty dangerous people. I know a number of eagle scouts like this. some of us boy scouts are not boy scouts.

[kahvey]

[quote=kahvey;700965] For your case officer-types, education is very very valuable. These are the people who will be running agents, making contacts, gathering and reporting info, etc. Most definitely having cultural background or language skills in the respective AOR is helpful, but the reason a Harvard dude is a hot commodity in the IC is that he/she has already demonstrated a huge desire to succeed, a keen intellect, a marked ability to learn, and the guts to stick with something to the end. That's a bit harder to quantify for those without a degree, make sense? Obviously we all know a few people from Ivy Leagues who are morons without common sense, but those types tend to weed themselves out of the hiring process.

quote]

This bogus line of reasoning only became prevalent post WW2. Post Vietnam, really. It was developed by managers (generally not warriors or business owners) and has contributed to a talent shortage in corporate, govt, and churches across America. Ford wasn't bankrupt when Henry would only surround himself with men who had come up through the ranks. I will probably not hire another AMERICAN college grad as they have proven themselves to be consistently arrogant, immoral, lazy, stupid, or some combination thereof. My biggest professional regret is that I waited until my senior year in college to drop out. Better late than never, I guess.
As to a Harvard grad being a hot commodity for the intel community....
the street punks that I used to run with as a kid in L.A. would have been able to deduce 9/11 beforehand given the readily available info coming through the wire. When someone with a violent past threatens you, believe them at their word and strike preemptivly. Which class at a godless socialist hotbed Ivy school teaches that in a lab environment? Evidently none. And if there was a contingent in the alphabet soup organizations that knew this attack was imminent, maybe they should have had more "guts to stick with" proclaiming this until they were heard loud and clear by those with the power to act. This is not meant as a direct slam against the couragous men and women who have sacrificed to keep us safe from post 9/11 attempts, but rather the irrational structure in place that limits the talent pool.

Your post demonstrates a staggering sense of your own arrogance and ignorance. Coupled with the standard "Muslims are evil!" posts and a healthy dose of "colleges are liberal brainwashing facilities" paranoia, this thread has jumped the shark. Adios.

[Francisp]

Former CIA agent Robert baer has a summer home down the street from my house. I have shot the bull with him many times, and despite his liberal leanings he seems to have had a very interesting life.
As far as the wet work - he told me we hire the Brits to do most of that.


why is that the case? I know the British are damn good at that stuff but i find it embarassing as a country with the size of our military that we can't recruit people who can do that competently

[Francisp]

Well one thing we shouldn't do is hire under any circumstances and that's MUSLIMS!!!!!!!

I don't care if there Second, Third or Fiftieth generation Americans and that's if you can call them Americans, (phooey wash mouth out with Bourbon on second thought lets not waste good Booze.)

As long as they prescribe to there religion of *PEACE THEY CAN NOT BE TRUSTED BECAUSE THERE LOYALTIES ARE TO ALLAH (phooey wash mouth out with soap there that's better.)

Ali Soufan was pretty effective at tracking down the Cole bombers

[Anthony]

why is that the case? I know the British are damn good at that stuff but i find it embarassing as a country with the size of our military that we can't recruit people who can do that competentlyMy thoughts?

Deniability.

You have all those 'checks and balances' with Congressional hearings etc.

The UK doesn't.

Plus there is no law sanctioned in the UK, outlawing political assasinations. - I believe yours was signed into law during the Reagan administration?

So, by giving wet work to other countries ( not just the UK,) your CIA can both legally and honestly say, "we didn't kill 'such and such'!" :D

Regards,
Anthony.

[Mossyrock]

Let me preface this by saying I have worked in Military Intelligence (CI, specifically) for almost 30 years, both in the States and in various and sundry shit-holes on a couple of different continents. In the course of this, I have worked both for, and with, these jackasses on numerous occasions. There is NO amount of money that could persuade me to abandon by morals and conscience to work for this organization. Besides, I doubt they would have me...I don't have an MBA from Harvard, and my parents were married. :D