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targetblaster
12-11-2004, 02:37 PM
I want to purchase a 12 gage home defense shotgun. Someone tried to sell me a Remington 870 HD (12 gage pump synthetic 18" barrel) for $330.00. I could purchase a Remington 870 express 12 gage at Wal-Mart for about $250, although it would have a hunting-length barrell. Is it better to go with the 18" HD model, or maybe even go a bit further and get an 870 Marine Magnum which will probably literally last 1000 years, or would the Wall Mart gun be ok for home defense?

Dr. Snubnose
12-11-2004, 02:46 PM
I have one of those Remington 870 Marine Models with a pistol grip....18 inch barrel....it's a dandy....my absolute favorite and well worth the money.

OdieWon
12-11-2004, 03:05 PM
You could buy the 870 at Wal Mart, and get another barrel for it, if I were starting over that's what I would do. Then the shot gun could do double duty as a waterfowl/upland game/rodent etc etc hunting weapon.

I actually ended up with a 870 Super Mag Express 3.5inch for hunting, and a 870 Police Mag for business.

2 nights ago one of our dogs and a stray were attacking our horse out in the yard, and I put a 3inch 00 Buck in our dog and it was finished in less than 3 seconds, right were he stood. Last night when the stray was on the porch as I pulled in the drive, I hopped right out of the jeep, and put a 3inch BB into the stray, right on the 'Ol Ticker, frontal shot. The stray bolted 70 yards or so, full bore before she layed it down. I was probably 7 feet away from target, in both cases. It really makes a difference what it's loaded with, even at indoors ranges.

In any case, the 870 is MORE than capable of doing both jobs, and to swap the barrel (if you even care about hunting with it) only takes a few seconds.

Hicap
12-11-2004, 07:06 PM
You can get the combo at Walmart for around $350 if they have it in stock.

Fredo
12-12-2004, 06:36 AM
You could buy the 870 at Wal Mart, and get another barrel for it, if I were starting over that's what I would do. Then the shot gun could do double duty as a waterfowl/upland game/rodent etc etc hunting weapon.

I actually ended up with a 870 Super Mag Express 3.5inch for hunting, and a 870 Police Mag for business.

2 nights ago one of our dogs and a stray were attacking our horse out in the yard, and I put a 3inch 00 Buck in our dog and it was finished in less than 3 seconds, right were he stood. Last night when the stray was on the porch as I pulled in the drive, I hopped right out of the jeep, and put a 3inch BB into the stray, right on the 'Ol Ticker, frontal shot. The stray bolted 70 yards or so, full bore before she layed it down. I was probably 7 feet away from target, in both cases. It really makes a difference what it's loaded with, even at indoors ranges.

In any case, the 870 is MORE than capable of doing both jobs, and to swap the barrel (if you even care about hunting with it) only takes a few seconds.

You shot your own dog? Gee, I never thought of that method of disciplining my dog. :rolleyes:

targetblaster
12-12-2004, 07:28 AM
Wow, that was my first post on this forum and I heard about people blowing away their own hounds, this place must be rough!

Well anyway thanks for the advice.

I had a feeling the Marine Magnum was an awesome shotgun.

Tex
12-12-2004, 08:31 AM
You can get the combo at Walmart for around $350 if they have it in stock.

You mean it would come with two barrels?

OdieWon
12-12-2004, 11:40 AM
Some random thoughts.

Do you know how much a horse costs? http://www.warriortalk.com/images/smilies/eek.gif
Once a dog has gone feral and attacked your own livestock, do you let it go to attack your neighbor's livestock?
Once a dog has gone feral and attacked livestock, are you ever going to let it near your own young children? http://www.warriortalk.com/images/smilies/eek.gif
Once a dog has gone feral and attacked livestock, are you ever going to let it near anyone elses' young children?
A man who has the stones to shoot his own now-feral dog is a man to be respected.

Well, I should probably have given a little more detail there. Thank you Marc for the kind words.

We do live about 25 miles from town in any direction. There are lots of farmers around here, with livestock, and kids. That is exactly why it had to be. We have 3 girls of our own. The other thing, is that the wife is very fortunate to have a really nice horse, and he values in at about $5,000. Not to mention that she is REALLY attatched to him. SO in short, after he had killed several of our chickens, when he started going nuts after the horse, I had to go ahead and shoot him. Otherwise he did seem to be a really nice, intuitive dog.

I didn't feel so bad about the stray, as it is customary to shoot them instantly when they attack livestock.

Mainly I brought it up to show the versatility of a 870, and how either way it can be used to engage fast moving targets at close ranges, as one would need it in defense of your home.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, and don't normally have to discipline my dogs in this manner.

AND I didn't mean to take this off topic so far, it was just fresh in my mind, and illustrated my point.

pete f
12-12-2004, 01:41 PM
one, I believe if you want a NIB home defense shotgun an 870 express combo is a great deal.
I have a hard time paying the markup and usually try to find good quality used shotguns. On the 870 I usually only look for one tell tale other than general overall condition. Flip the gun over and look at the edges of the loading port and the ejection port. If you see divots and scratches that look like someone was trying to pry a jammed shell loose then skip that one and move on. For some reason every once in a great while, an 870 will be prone to double feeding or jumping. This can be fixed with a new magazine cut off but why bother unless you can talk the salesman way down.

second regarding dogs. My wife's family raises high end horses and they are very careful to limit the number of chances a dog would have if that dog shows any tendency to harrass or chase horses. Feral dogs are a huge problem in the rural areas around big city suburbs. It seems a lot of run away dogs or dogs that people have given up on out in the country. I am out at my brother in laws farm at least twice a week sometimes more trying to help with my wifes new horse.

We have about 187 acres there and we have a terrible time with feral dogs and cats and they are all considered a target of opportunity. We raise a few hogs and cattle for home use and it is a nightmare trying to keep dogs of the barn during farrowing (birthing of piglets) and out of the pasture when calves come. My son has standing orders at the farm to shoot any stray and feral dog. (Believe me, we do not go wantonly shooting Bubba's lost hunting dog. A dog that has not gone feral will usually approach you tail wagging or tail between it legs in a submission pose. A feral dogs tail will be down and out and he will not approach straight on but try and cut and angle on you.) My son goes nowhere on the farm with out his .44 mag Model 94 trapper.

At my father-in-laws' farm in southern Missouri, they have less trouble with dogs being further away from the city but they have had a lot of trouble with feral hogs and wild pigs. They raise Pasofino horses too and with over 400 acres of land that borders a national forest, damaged fences could be disasterous and they shoot feral hogs around their property because they seem to enjoy ripping up fences even electric fences do not seem to slow the hogs down. Father in law carries a S&W 65 in 357 shooting 140 jsp or tmj. Has had good luck he says, He also does not care if the pig dies right away. If he shoots it broad sides and dies within a couple for hundred yards he is happy.

Fredo
12-12-2004, 02:14 PM
Odiewon:

Thanks for the explanation. I now see your situation. Any dog I've had would have attacked the stray, not the horse. Dogs can go bad too, I guess.

John Silver
12-12-2004, 03:16 PM
No dog talk, but about shotguns...

It's impossible to go wrong with any Rem 870.

That being sadi, since this is about HD, I'll give my 0.02. How/where are you going to be using it - in the house, maybe garage, or the yard at most.

Many people will have the plan of locking themselves in a room, call the cops and wait. For such a thing, barrel length doesn't matter. In a yard, barrel length doesn't matter. Going room to room with a shotgun - well, if you train at that level then you will have other weapon choices for the task at hand.

Back in the gunshop days, I sold more than one Rem 1100 Youth 20ga to couples who didn't own a gun and wanted to cover the HD base. It's light, has a fairly short barrel should you need to go looking for bad guys in close quarters, short stock shoulders quickly, proven action, chambered for a round that doesn't intimidate the wife yet works wonders at close range, and is so court friendly it's sick - blue steel, polished wood, scroll work, word "youth" in the designation.

Lesson: don't get sucked into the "tactical" world and have it set your limitations. Amazing what other good solutions can be found if you truly identify the goal and look for what will get you there.

targetblaster
12-12-2004, 03:51 PM
I don't care who shoots their own dogs or for what reason, I just thought it was almost funny that my first post was answered with a story about blowing away a dog.

combat effective
12-12-2004, 07:28 PM
I am a huge fan of the Remington 870. I have an 870P and an Express model. The Express will more than get the job done. One of the combos would allow you to have a hunter/sporter and a protector in one package.

That being said there are also plenty of police trade ins floating around that can be had at good prices.

The Mossberg line is a better value when compared to the 870P line.

Dan-O
12-12-2004, 11:08 PM
Noticed that nobody piped in about the Nova's
Anyone put a bunch of rounds through one,how they holdin up ect...
I was thinking of getting one when I get back.

DaveJames
12-13-2004, 08:18 AM
I'm really getting to like the Novas, haven't used any of the riot versions, but in my neck of the woods its shotgun/buckshot only for deer, I have seen several this year and last go thru a heck of alot of buckshot and their running smooth,, the whole plastic thing is a little unnevering at first but it sure takes a beating

Chuck Burnett
12-14-2004, 01:48 PM
The Novas that have come through our two and four day classes have performed well.
I personally like the the Mossberg 500/590 pump guns. The controls are a little more ergonomic than the 870s, especially for ambi use.
We just acquired several youth stocked Mossberg 500s in 20 gauge for our smaller statured students.
They're very light and fast handling.Also hard to beat the price.($200 at Big 5)
Using #3 buckshot we get a dense hand-sized pattern at 10 yards with everything still on the torso at 15 or so.
Not exactly a Vang-Comped 590A1 but certainly more than adequate for home defense.

Chuck

chaos122967
12-14-2004, 02:08 PM
I have a Nova with a seven round capacity and a twenty inch barrel and have to admit this thing rocks. The plastic stock kind of sucks but I have since gotten used to it. This gun has taken a beating and come back for more. Great gun at a great price!