PDA

View Full Version : Skorpion article...



Steve Collins
03-11-2009, 09:31 AM
in the latest "Guns" magazine. Not a bad write up, but guess I'd better get one now since everyone will see the article and want one too...:rolleyes:

Steve Collins
03-11-2009, 12:05 PM
Definitely going to go the SBR route. I'm still considered an Oregon resident, and they are a class III state!!!:D Just have to leave it there when I come back up here, but it's only 1.5 hours away; good reason to get out of town!

EDELWEISS
03-20-2009, 05:31 AM
SMALL ARMS REVIEW did one last month. They compared the pistol with a SBR and a Full Auto version. I think this months issue of SWAT has one too. I dont usually by SWAT but its sometimes fun reading while drinking a caffenated beverage.

Steve Collins
03-25-2009, 03:19 PM
Read the SWAT article. Knothead writing sees it as a 'range' gun, but can't see any value to it as a personal protection piece...:rolleyes: Dumbass!

He shows a picture of his son shooting it, and I think that is one of the great values of it. A smaller shooter can handle it, and while it's not the thunderbolt of Zeus, it is still better than a .22, IMO.

He also reported having problems with anything other than hardball. Then again, he only tried 3 types of ammo with it!:mad: I'm thinking something along the lines of Cor Bon .32 when I get mine.

eaboecke
03-27-2009, 04:59 AM
I have a question, I am genuinely curious and not just trolling here. Why would I prefer a Skorpion over a G17/19? I have handled a Skorpion at the gun store and while it looks very cool, it seemed unwieldy and rather pointless without the stock. It was also rather large, proablly larger then a G17. You pick up a couple extra rounds in ammo and go from a 9mm which is a good fullsize round to a .32acp which is generally considered a mouse gun round. (No I don't want to be shot with either but if I am doing the shooting I would prefer the 9mm)

Staying with Glocks you keep your same mags and and same ammo. If you want a stock you can SPR your Glock and there are several differnt stocks avaiable.

As for a younger shooter. 9mm is pretty easy shooting, (add short stock and its even easier) and I have seen 12 year old girls handle a G19 at a class just as well as her dad.

Condition Write
03-27-2009, 02:25 PM
I called Czechpoint today to satisfy my curiosity. I blame everyone who's already posted in this thread. :)

Their vz.61s with threaded barrels (http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-61-scorpions/sa-vz-61-scorpion-silencer-ready/) are now in stock for $819 shipped, and their affiliated smith will do the SBR engraving and stock attachment for $175 parts and labor once you have the approved Form 1.

Ghostmedia
04-01-2009, 11:36 AM
I would agree with "eaboeke" about preferring a high capacity GLOCK etc over the Skorpion pistol. Skorpion SBR might be a little different story..maybe. That was the intended point behind comment of current CZ-USA Skorpion not being a valid personal defense weapon. If I sound like I am defending the "Knothead" and "Dumbass" there is a good reason. Would I pick it if nothing else was around...definitely. Curious on how Cor Bon .32 will function.

seth bailey
04-01-2009, 11:52 AM
Not to be the resident dummy, but I thought they made some in 9mm to? Is that a still rarity? Are the ones coming in not available in that at all? Just asking.

Ghostmedia
04-01-2009, 11:58 AM
Skorpions were chambered in 9MM, .38O, and other European chamberings. I believe only the .32ACP is being offered now.

Condition Write
11-09-2009, 07:16 PM
Per Czechpoint, .380 Skorpions are on the way in the first half of next year. No word on 9x18mm.

EDELWEISS
11-10-2009, 06:37 AM
Now thats interesting. I wonder what the mags are gonna cost? The 32 mags went through the roof. When I first got the gun you could find two 20s in a leather pouch for about $50. Now Ive seen a single 20rounder go for that much.

A 380 or 9MAK would be nice but its worthless without reasonably priced mags.

Coolhand77
11-10-2009, 10:49 AM
I'll wait for the 9mm version that uses glock happy sticks :D

Eric
12-17-2009, 08:06 AM
I have a question, I am genuinely curious and not just trolling here. Why would I prefer a Skorpion over a G17/19? I have handled a Skorpion at the gun store and while it looks very cool, it seemed unwieldy and rather pointless without the stock. It was also rather large, proablly larger then a G17. You pick up a couple extra rounds in ammo and go from a 9mm which is a good fullsize round to a .32acp which is generally considered a mouse gun round. (No I don't want to be shot with either but if I am doing the shooting I would prefer the 9mm)

Staying with Glocks you keep your same mags and and same ammo. If you want a stock you can SPR your Glock and there are several differnt stocks avaiable.

As for a younger shooter. 9mm is pretty easy shooting, (add short stock and its even easier) and I have seen 12 year old girls handle a G19 at a class just as well as her dad.

Just noticed this thread. Figured I'd chime in, if belatedly.

The Skorpion's niche is in the "PDW" role, where you need to "reach out" with alot of lead in a short period of time. The flip-over stock and the smaller round make it drop-dead accurate within the 25 yd envelope. Meaning you can fire almost continuously at a 25 yd target and get really good hits time and again. THe short stock makes for a very tight weld, really close in, that makes it hard to see, profile and disarm. Though people like me with long arms find it uncomfortable.

In a 9mm configuration, that spreads the distance out considerably. In an "active shooter" or Mumbai-esque situation, the Skorpion would be a much better choice than a Glock due to the foregoing. Any kind of Urban CQB can be fought better with a platform like this. Think MP5's little brother.

I'd back one up with a Glock for sure, but if I'm looking for something that will let me get lots of accurate hits really fast and be a great asset in CQB, the Skorpion fits the role nicely. Much beter, IMHO, than an SBR'd AR or AK.

Smaller than an Uzi, bigger than a Glock, tighter than an MP5, and you can use your rifle skills with it. Put a small red-dot on it and Yahoo!

If I could get my hands on one, then I'd have a seriosuly compelling reason to migrate from .45 to 9mm across the board.

s4141
12-19-2009, 08:52 PM
OK, got home from the local gun show today with a semi-auto Scorpion. My son was with me and I heard him say pretty loudly "a scorpion!" So after walking around some more to show him some more options(AK, Glocks, and other pistols) he wanted the scorpion. I asked him how he knew what it was and he said it is on his Modern Warfare game. Anyway, I ended up getting it for him (ok me too). Came with case, 2 20 rounds mags, 1 ten round mag, holster, magazine pouch, and some other strap. Spent $620 for it. Nice Christmas present. Oh, got 300 rounds as well to start off.
Hope to shoot it tomorrow. As a side note, lots of people were calling it a "cool gun."

EDELWEISS
12-19-2009, 09:59 PM
There are several reasons to like the Skorpion. Its incredabily easy to SBR and fairly inexpensive to do so. The original was built as a small SMG, before anyone heard of PDWs. In 32acp its so controllable as to almost be recoil free. When it has a stock SBR or SMG the stock is hardly noticable when folded, thats not something many other SMGs/PDWs can say. That does come at a price as the stock leaves something to be desired from a Western traditional SMG approach; but it does what it was designed to do, and isnt that whats really important.

Theres been alot of talk about SBRing Glocks etc. I known there are a couple of stock options, but none of them can compensate for the slide moving back and forth inches from your nose. The Skorpion, like the Broomhandle Mausers dont have that problem.

As a semi auto pistol, yes its as big or bigger than a Glock 17/22/21, but it has a 20 round magazine that doubles as a forward grip. The rear or the receiver screams for a MP5K sling loop. Gabes right a loop is not the same as a stock but its better than just a two hand hold. It also means that it can be carried slung under an open coat like a "Whippet".

Living here in the Peoples Republik of Maryland, where even off duty officers cant be trusted to buy magazines over 20 rounds, (unless they drive out of state), the Skorpion has the advantage of 20 round mags. Surprisingly its available for sale here as well, unlike pistols like MACs etc.

A 9mm / 40S&W or 45acp Glock may have more terminal impact but in the land of 300+ homocides a year, and daily handgun violations, the Skorpion has more stage presence than you average HiPoint.

s4141
12-19-2009, 10:07 PM
I've got the .32acp. Short of trying my google-fu,anyone know where to order magazines for it and any idea how to mount an MP5 type sling mount on it?

EDELWEISS
12-19-2009, 10:28 PM
Try Czechpoint for mags and maybe CZ-USA. They used to have them. Theres always Gunbroker. When I first bought mine you could find two like new mags in a leather pouch for $50.oo. The last I saw them, they were pushing $50.oo a piece and no pouch.

Im interested in the 308, 9MAK or 9mm versions but I want to see what the mag issue will bring. Magazine availability and price are what has kept me awy from guns like the Sterling too.

A sling stud can be drilled and tapped into the rear of the reciever for a single point sling. The "rate reducer" on the bottom of the pistol grip may be a second atchment point as well. The gizmo is useless in a semiauto gun anyway. Im not even sure its really a rate reducer on the pistol. It may just be a big screw to attach the pistol grip. Its got two loops exposed on the bottom, (mine is cocked at an angle) but a piece of para cord could be tied through the loops.

s4141
12-20-2009, 03:00 PM
Gotcha Edelweiss. Thanks for the info. Was thinking of using the reducer in the fashion you describe. Son is anxious to try it out this afternoon.

Eric
12-20-2009, 07:17 PM
OK, got home from the local gun show today with a semi-auto Scorpion. My son was with me and I heard him say pretty loudly "a scorpion!" So after walking around some more to show him some more options(AK, Glocks, and other pistols) he wanted the scorpion. I asked him how he knew what it was and he said it is on his Modern Warfare game. Anyway, I ended up getting it for him (ok me too). Came with case, 2 20 rounds mags, 1 ten round mag, holster, magazine pouch, and some other strap. Spent $620 for it. Nice Christmas present. Oh, got 300 rounds as well to start off.
Hope to shoot it tomorrow. As a side note, lots of people were calling it a "cool gun."

Very curious as to your first impression with it. Can you please post after you've run it, like first day?

Given I live in the DPRNJ, I'm green with envy... ;):p

sefus
12-20-2009, 11:30 PM
so the question is then if they come to the states in .380 or 9x18, which one is going to be the "better" version? I would almost think the 9x18 but not really sure why, lol.

-Sefus

EDELWEISS
12-20-2009, 11:53 PM
Eric, I took it with me on my last Patrol Rifle qualification day. It started to rain just as we finished qualifing. So because most cops melt in the rain, the fireing line cleared. Once I found a boss to Ok it I broke out the Skorpion. I was drenched when I finished but on the up side I had the whole range to my self.

Short of "Jon Woo movie" rolls, I put it through it paces, without a hitch. Mag changes take 'just a bit' of getting used to when youre used to pushing a button and having the mag fall free. If you use a grip on the mag hold, its not a problem. Your mag hold hand hits the release and you pull straight down. I havent worked on any tactical mag changes, but I suppose I should see whats possible.

I havent done the sling or para-cord loop yet either. When I take for backup on P/T assignments, it sits on the seat next to me and I dont want the sling catching on anything in the car. I figure if I need it I need it NOW! It drops in a bag when I have to leave the car, otherwise a newspaper covers it if someone walks by while Im in the car. Ive even carried it folded inside a news paper without any looks.

Disassembly is so straight forward that no manual (CD) was necessary. Cleaning is about what youd expect.

The bigger caliber versions are intriquing but I suppose theyll come at the same expense as the originals. The guns got larger with larger mags, and harder to control. For a non-issued standpoint, Im concerned about the cost AND availability of magazines. By the time the Czechs got to larger calibers the perceived need had all but been replaced by folding stocked rifles. The production numbers of the 9mmMAK guns is comparitively tiny next to the 32acp guns.

There was a US made 9mm version in the 80s or early 90s during the reign of the MAC10s and Miami Vice days, but it never came close to competing with the MACs or Tec9s. As a side note those US 9mm Skorpions are specifically banned here in Maryland as are MACs and Tec9s--cant you see how much safer we are for it--its for the children...........

s4141
12-21-2009, 04:19 AM
Ok, ran 200 rounds through it this evening in 40 Degree weather.

Had 100 rounds of Wolf and 200 rounds of Sellior and Bellot.

Shot the S&B the first 20 rounds. Flawless. Shot beautiful from the 15 yard line. No kick to speak of. Sharp crack when it fired(had to try it without ear protection). Accurate. My 15 year old son shot it first and made a nice 3 inch group unsupported his first 5 rounds. Rounds were about 2-3 inches high from point of aim. Had the rear sight on the "75" meter setting, so maybe that is why it was shooting high from closer range? Trigger felt a bit mushy but easily manageable. I didn't have a trigger gauge, but I bet it was under 5 lbs, probably 4 or maybe less. Safety was a bit stiff, but being new, maybe it will work out some.

I took it back to 25 yards and fired 10 rounds of Wolf with no problems. Placed all 10 in the head of a TQ-19 target, aiming at the mouth level. I held it like a normal pistol in an Isocoles Stance and not using the magazine as a hand grip. I did not really like holding the mag, but I've not held something like this before. I'm just comfortable with a regular pistol grip technique.

The rear sight does not really allow much "daylight" between the rear notch and the front post. Almost like one solid darkness mass. The rear sight notch should be a a bit wider for my personal taste. I'm thinking about getting some phosporesence paint and painting the from post to make it stand out more.

One 20 round mag kept causing double-feeds. Looked at the lips and didn't see any difference from the others that were working. Will try it again next time. The other two mags never had an issue. I've got an e-mail in to CZ asking for magazines and prices, so hope to have an answer on that this week.

Didn't get back any further with it as daylight fell short.

Overall, i thought the gun shot pretty well. It was accurate, no recoil to speak of, and outside of the one magazine, functioned flawlessly with FMJ ammo. My son loved it, which makes it all worthwhile. Oh, the straight-up ejection of the spent round was impressive. Lots of height with it.

Taking it apart was pretty easy.

Eric
12-21-2009, 01:10 PM
Edelweiss and s4141:

Thanks for the posts, I appreciate your taking the time (even if I am green with envy :D). Sounds about as sweet as I thought it would be. Now if I could just get my hands on one...

Sounds like you guys are both saying the 32 is about right? Would you put a red-dot on it, or would the iron suffice for, say, an active shooter situation? How about at night?

How do you guys think this would compare to, say, a micro Uzi?

s4141
12-21-2009, 03:32 PM
I like the .32, but I haven't shot any other caliber through it. I'm not much into dot sights or anything like that. To me, it was rather easy to point and shoot. Strangely, the balance seemed pretty decent to me. For acive shooter, I wonder the effectiveness of a semi-auto. Seems accurate enough, but is the round ballistically capable of doing enough damage through heavy clothing or other gear they might be wearing?

Can't help you with the micro-uzi comparison. Never held one or shot one. Shot a MAC-10, but it seemed awkward without a stock of some sort. Bigger bullet though.......

Eric
12-21-2009, 07:27 PM
I like the .32, but I haven't shot any other caliber through it. I'm not much into dot sights or anything like that. To me, it was rather easy to point and shoot. Strangely, the balance seemed pretty decent to me. For acive shooter, I wonder the effectiveness of a semi-auto. Seems accurate enough, but is the round ballistically capable of doing enough damage through heavy clothing or other gear they might be wearing?

Can't help you with the micro-uzi comparison. Never held one or shot one. Shot a MAC-10, but it seemed awkward without a stock of some sort. Bigger bullet though.......

Aim for the nose & try to make a nice, round hole about 3" across... :cool: :eek:

Thanks again for the writeup...

EDELWEISS
12-21-2009, 08:54 PM
Its an across the room weapon, not acroos the mall. That's just another reason why the 32acp works well for it. I think an optic would make it awkward. It would certainly screw up any chance of using it with a stock if you went the SBR route.

I had a full size UZI and a MAC10 back in the 80s. The Skorpion is MUCH lighter than either (as it was ment to be). I pistol terms the MAC "balanced" better because the full weight of the loaded mag is in the grip and centered on the gun.

IF we could have MACs here in the Free State, I might pick a MAC over the Skorpion but it would be a tough choice. The MAC has the advantage of bigger bullets (with more recoil and gun weight) plus it has 30 round Grease gun mags which are still plentiful and cheap. But the reality is that MACs are banned for everyones safety and Skorpions are available, so oim more than happy to have my little Czech friend.

s4141
12-21-2009, 09:19 PM
At the range some people called it a "ghetto gun." Some people just have complete disdain for any odd gun. Made in the land of my forefathers(Slovakia), so it has some "family" connections???? Sure would like a fully auto one to play with.

Funny that when I bought it our state statute allows CCW to bypass the $25 Brady cost, but LE has to pay it. I have no issue with it, but find it funny.

I liked shooting it, and my son liked shooting it. It's worth the cost and ridicule. Maybe the time will come when I have to use it for real. Hope not, but one never knows.

Jaybo
11-19-2010, 09:43 PM
At the range some people called it a "ghetto gun." Some people just have complete disdain for any odd gun. Made in the land of my forefathers(Slovakia), so it has some "family" connections???? Sure would like a fully auto one to play with.


Me too! :cool:

gunplumber
11-20-2010, 05:55 AM
I built one few years back from a kit. Was pleased. The inertial recoil abatement makes it surprisingly controllable.

emsmiller
11-20-2010, 09:55 AM
Another idea for the Skorpion came from Eric Haney's novel. The main character, Kennesaw Tanner had a full auto Skorpion as his last ditch/PDW on him at all times during the operation he was working. Just tied cord around the stock and looped it over his neck and kept the PDW under his robes while in North Africa. It makes a good idea for hiking in woods to have a SBR or PDW to have along. It is accurate, easy to shoot and 20 rounds of .32acp is nothing to sneeze at.

EDELWEISS
11-23-2010, 07:46 AM
Elbows, its clearly a speciality weapon. Many will tell you a G17 with a extended mag is a better choice BUT it is a compact package with 20 rounds and minimal recoil. The mag can be used to help steady your hold. The rear of the receiver is thick enough to tap for a stud or swivel if you want to use the MP5K sling method---BUT why waste time with that, SBR it.

anewconvert
11-24-2010, 05:27 AM
The only argument for the sling is, in some states, that keeps it a pistol which makes carrying it concealed in a small bag/car legal. Whereas the stock makes it illegal to carry as its now a concealed rifle. North Carolina is one such state.