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manonfire1007
03-03-2009, 09:58 PM
I've had my sub-2k for a few years now, and although it is a niche weapon, it can do things no other rifle can. Reliable, my wife shoots it well, simple, mag and ammo interchangeability, very affordable, etc. One of the few guns I won't sell.

Gabe and other instructors, from what you have seen in classes, how has the sub-2k held up? For that matter, how has the SU-16 held up in carbine classes? Obviously not usable as an impact weapon, but otherwise?

An AK it is not, but I'm curious on how they have endured a class.
:D

BillyOblivion
03-04-2009, 03:50 AM
Gabe and other instructors, from what you have seen in classes, how has the sub-2k held up? For that matter, how has the SU-16 held up in carbine classes? Obviously not usable as an impact weapon, but otherwise?


An acquaintance of mine had a SU 16.

The barrel didn't hold up well to her volume of shooting--she shot the barrel out in a fairly short time, but she shot several thousand rounds through it.

From the few people I know who have them, they're fine "trunk guns", but not the most robust combat rifles out there.

I have no idea about the Sub-2k, but would be interested to hear as well.

lilc
03-04-2009, 06:27 AM
An acquaintance of mine had a SU 16.

The barrel didn't hold up well to her volume of shooting--she shot the barrel out in a fairly short time, but she shot several thousand rounds through it.

From the few people I know who have them, they're fine "trunk guns", but not the most robust combat rifles out there.

I have no idea about the Sub-2k, but would be interested to hear as well.I used to have an SU-16 Charlie, and I just got a Glock-compatible Sub 2000 9mm. The SU was a handy rifle, but the S2K seems to be about ten times as sturdy. The fixed forend, beefier Zytel overmolding on the receiver and grip frame, and the stout buffer tube are a lot more confidence-inspiring. Sure, it's not a TEOTWAWKI battle rifle, but for a take-along SHTF pistol-caliber carbine that can be with you when no other long gun -- not even your AK folder -- can be, I think it will serve admirably.

Gabriel Suarez
03-04-2009, 06:53 AM
For what it is, it is a VERY sound weapon. It is not an AK or a FAL, but it WILL allow farther and more accurate shots, as well as repeated hits than a handgun in the same hands.

The SU16 has not held up well, I think in part, to the pressures of the 223. But the 9mm has worked fine. As we begin the push for the SMG Training, I think we will see alot of these handy little carbines.

dletsch
03-06-2009, 11:22 AM
I've had my sub-2k for a few years now, and although it is a niche weapon, it can do things no other rifle can. Reliable, my wife shoots it well, simple, mag and ammo interchangeability, very affordable, etc. One of the few guns I won't sell.

Gabe and other instructors, from what you have seen in classes, how has the sub-2k held up? For that matter, how has the SU-16 held up in carbine classes? Obviously not usable as an impact weapon, but otherwise?

An AK it is not, but I'm curious on how they have endured a class.
:D

I took a PCC course from another trainer last year - excellent course. Of the 10 students, there were two Beretta Storms, 1 9mm AR, and 7 Kel-Tecs (2 Sub-9, 5 Sub-2000s).

The front sight on the Kel-Tec is a piece of shit. I don't remember if all of them failed during the class, but most did. (This was a 1500 round 2-day class.) Other than that (which can be fixed by the Blue Force Gear replacement front sight), the guns hold up fine. There were a couple of loose bolts on the Sub-9s, but a little loc-tite fixed that. The Beretta Storms worked fine as well.

This class covered techniques for removing the Kel-Tec from a discreet bag, unfolding it, and engaging. The instructor used to be with DSS when they used Uzis and carried them in discreet bags in Latin America, so the techniques were proven (with the unfolding of the Kel-Tec substituting for the stock extension on the Uzi.)

The class made me substitute a Kel-Tec for the AMD-65 that I used to carry in a particular regularly visited, indoor, 150-yard-shot-possible NPE.

I have a SU-16 that I used to carry in my car (replaced with AK in discreet bag.) I still carry it when I am forced to go to California as it is the A model which is CA-legal (I even own 3 10-round AR mags just for that.) It is way better than nothing - it is also better than a Mini-14, but not by much. I would not want to put money on my SU-16 surviving a 1500-round carbine class.

steve b
07-19-2009, 04:45 AM
On Kel-Tec's website, am seeing a price of 406 bucks. Is the going rate for the Sub-2000, Glock versions ? Would it fit in a laptop case ? Hmmnnn.. steve b

ltnotbob
07-19-2009, 06:19 AM
Yes, it does fit in a laptop case. ;)

ChuteTheMall
07-19-2009, 08:25 AM
On Kel-Tec's website, am seeing a price of 406 bucks. Is the going rate for the Sub-2000, Glock versions ? Would it fit in a laptop case ? Hmmnnn.. steve b

Street price for the Sub2k ranges from about $299 to $349, but availability is the problem; they sell out fast.
I think I paid $315 NIB.

Unless one is heavily invested in G19 mags, be sure to consider the G17 mag compatible version first. The grip is way too short on the G19 version, it's far shorter than a G26. The carbine grip feels different from a Glock pistol grip. As usual, YMMV on subjective matters like fit.

I'm exploring options to cushion the buffer tube against my face. :eek:

manonfire1007
07-19-2009, 03:15 PM
Too bad an offset red dot on this won't work well. I just keep coming back to this rifle. It is amazing where it will fit

kabar
07-19-2009, 04:11 PM
Check out this DIY solution for a Sub2K scope mount.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxeKzpK9OgI

John W in SC
07-19-2009, 04:42 PM
A friend is on his third P-11 (Kel-Tec 9mm pistol). He shoots them in IDPA, and runs a lot of rounds through them. (If you laugh at his choice of competition gun he will only beat you more badly!) He says after 10,000 rounds or so the guns are just worn out. He sends them back to Kel-Tec and they send him a new one under warranty.

Kel-Tec has very good customer service. If you wear out one of their products, they will replace it. They have sent me parts at no charge. I have a P-11, a Sub-2000 (G-19 version) and a SU-16C. None would be mistaken for battle rifles or race guns, but all do what they were designed to do, and at a reasonable price.

With respect to the buffer tube on the cheek, I put a piece of foam tape on mine. Its the stuff used to seal camper bodies to pickup beds. Not perfect, but better.

My biggest complaint with the SUB-2000 is the wierd ergonomics. Still, if you want the smallest possible pistol caliber carbine, and one that takes your Glock mags, there ain't no competition. I use mine when I want more than a pistol, but discretion is essential. (They do look nice with a happy stick hanging out of the mag well.)

John W in SC

DonWorsham
07-19-2009, 05:55 PM
A friend is on his third P-11 (Kel-Tec 9mm pistol). He shoots them in IDPA, and runs a lot of rounds through them. (If you laugh at his choice of competition gun he will only beat you more badly!) He says after 10,000 rounds or so the guns are just worn out. He sends them back to Kel-Tec and they send him a new one under warranty.


John, do you know if his P-11 is stock or does he do anything to make it run better in competition?

John W in SC
07-19-2009, 06:02 PM
John, do you know if his P-11 is stock or does it do anything to make it run better in competition?

As far as I know its stock, although I assume the usual "fluff & buff". I don't remember if he had a steel guide rod or P-40 recoil springs, both of which I have in mine. I've never shot it. From the outside it looks stock enough for IDPA. Its what he carries every day, so he made sure he can use it, and competition is one way to test his skills with it.

John W in SC

PaulD
07-19-2009, 09:06 PM
TacticoolProducts sells a buffer that significantly reduces felt recoil and bolt tube slap. They also sell a bolt tube cover but it's kydex and not padded. I was thinking of padding the bolt tube as well but the buffer eliminated that need in my opinion. The downside to the buffer is that the bolt can't be locked open unless it's trimmed. It almost locks but not quite. As for a replacement front sight Blue Force doesn't make them anymore. But, a 9mm High Point carbine front sight can be made to fit with a little reaming. An AMD-65 front sight will also work with a shim. There's information on both of these mods and the buffer on ktog.org.

lilc
07-19-2009, 09:11 PM
Actually, the current tube cover sold by Tacticool Products for the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is made from Santoprene, a durable medium-durometer polymer, which is much softer than the Kydex ones. For $13 delivered, it's a must-have Sub 2000 accessory.

manonfire1007
01-05-2010, 02:25 PM
Anyone else have any experience with these in a training class?
Instructors, feel free to chime in. So far I see problems with the front site.
Anything else a chronic problem in classes?

Michael Swisher
01-05-2010, 02:43 PM
Anyone else have any experience with these in a training class?
Instructors, feel free to chime in. So far I see problems with the front site.
Anything else a chronic problem in classes?

Not yet. I will be using mine for one day of Fighting rifle skills in May. We'll see.

Mike

manonfire1007
01-05-2010, 03:09 PM
I'd love to see it. If I can get out to train, i'll post results as well.

SqueeDAB
01-05-2010, 04:06 PM
Anyone put a vertical fore-grip on one of these? Maybe something on a short rail, rigged for quick on-and-off?

Sgt. Psycho
01-05-2010, 04:19 PM
Kel-Tech has a quad rail coming out for the Sub-2000.

Coolhand77
01-05-2010, 06:58 PM
I almost picked up one at the gunshow this weekend, but all I could find were the ones in .40. If they had one in .45 I would have gone for it, since there are the new KRISS mags that are G21 compatable, but they dont.

If I am going to get one, its going to be in 9mm, so that I can use happy sticks :D

Garloch
01-17-2010, 04:57 PM
I've been trying to find a local gunshop that would order one for me in Glock .40 configuration, but none of their distributors have any in stock and thought it would be a long wait.

I found a used one in my favorite gunshop two days ago and bought it for $225! It looks like it has been lightly used if at all.

I took it to a training session last night and have to say that I was most impressed with this little beast! It worked flawlessly and I had no trouble using it either right or left handed. I like to think that I'm no slouch with a pistol, but I'd be a fool and a liar if I said that I wasn't much more accurate and much faster on followup shots with this thing. And it is so light and tiny when folded! It fits in my laptop bag with a huge amount of room to spare, but I found a bag from a medical conference that my wife went to laying in the bottom of the closet and purloined it to haul the thing in. Talk about sneaky. No one would ever suspect.

It is hideously ugly, and I have no concerns whatsoever about scratching it up or using it hard. I am treating it like I would a jack or a tire iron.

Amazing little device. And it takes the same mags as my EDC (G35). I have a feeling that the little beast and Garloch will be spending a lot of time together.

egalloway
02-14-2010, 09:07 AM
First post on here I've been on the forum for awhile but not had anything to really add. Now I saw this post so thought I'd add my .02
I absolutly love my sub 2000. I have a 9mm glock mag unit. I carry it in a contractors bag, very discreet, holds the sub with flush G17 mag, G17 in front comparment holster, mag light, trauma kit, multi tool. I carry 4 glock 33 rd mags in holders next to the G17 (mags loaded with 124 gr corbons). The sub rides in the main compartment center divider. It is very fast to deploy and allows serious volume of fire. I carry a G26 ccw so all works really well as a system. I shoot leagues monday nights using the bag so I train how I carry, not that i generally leave the house with it but it does depending on my work plans. The gun runs flawless and I have a no name chinese 33rd malfuncation mag I mix in to insure a malf drill once in a while. Otherwise the little ugly thing won't malf. It is crazy accurate and I haven't had any issues with the front sight, I don't know if it is different cause mine is 6 months old, it is a little hard to pick up low light but really for what it is? I've been considering adding a folding foregrip and a buffer tube cover but hell it works so well and I'm used to it why change it. Anyways hope that helps, I abuse and use it and it keeps on running. I get some laughs from people not familiar with it or me at the range till they see it in action and then they search for one.

Garloch
02-14-2010, 06:27 PM
Egalloway, glad you like it. They are amazing little devices and if a person carries a pistol that the Sub2K is made in (i.e. takes the same mags) then I think it's a no-brainer to get it, make sure it works, and keep it available in the car just in case.

Who knows? You may break down in an area where it'd be mighty comfy to just be able to sling the laptop bag over your shoulder as you walk to wherever you need to get to. Or take it with you into the motel when you're away from home on vacation or business. Or maybe the earthquake/riot/hurricane/apocolypse/zombie invasion occurs when you're away from home.

Having something that takes the same mags as your ccw but you can shoot better, faster, and farther with might just win the day. Even if you never have to use it, having it as an option brings a good warm feeling deep down inside.

If it gets stolen, you're not out that much.

fixer
03-03-2010, 03:28 AM
a buddy of mine just got a Sub2K in 9, along with three happy sticks. $325 for the gun, and $29 each for the mags. i gave him a freebie laptop bag from a convention to pack it in.

i just wish the Blue Force Gear front sight was still available for it... i'll have to hunt down the AMD65 mod for him.

Garloch
03-03-2010, 06:30 AM
Well, I had about five failures to extract with mine at the range yesterday, out of maybe 100 rds fired. The first time it did it I racked the slide and got a double feed, so I took the magazine out to clear it, and noticed that the top round in the magazine had the bullet pushed into the case almost flush (like a full wadcutter). I'm glad that I noticed that!!!

The cases were just dribbling out, not ejecting far at all. The only other time that I shot this (several weeks ago the day after I got it) I had absolutely no issues with it, using the same 180gr Federal ball from Walmart.

I had cleaned and lubed the gun appropriately and know that wasn't the issue.

It finally occurred to me that the first time I shot it was in an indoor range, and I brought the ammo straight from my bedroom closet, so it was at room temp. Yesterday, it was relatively cold at the outdoor range and the ammo had been in my car all day. I'm pretty sure that it was just below the threshold of reliable operation with the ammo cold.

Kel Tec says to use high quality US made mid-weight JHP ammo, so I guess that I will take them at their word. I'm going to order a bunch of 165gr Gold Dot (the higher pressure of the two 165gr Gold Dot versions that Speer makes) and see if that clears up the problem.

manonfire1007
09-14-2010, 10:48 PM
Since we've had more discussion on the pistol Caliber carbine as of late, I'm curious of anyone has put one through one of the training courses. If so, how did it stand up to the demands of hard use?

irishmike
09-15-2010, 02:55 AM
I was thinking of buying one in the g17 version, but am still on the fence. Its this or an RMR for my 34, for a bag/truck gun, if the red dot allows easy hits at 100 yds, why even bother. Anyone have an RMR-equiped 34 and a sub2k to compare and contrast? Decsions, Decsions.

B+Shooter
09-15-2010, 04:12 AM
Its this or an RMR for my 34, for a bag/truck gun, if the red dot allows easy hits at 100 yds, why even bother.

One good reason would be some extra velocity on your rounds down range. Besides, it's another gun!
The biggest let down with losing the Blue Force Gear's front sight was that is had a Picatinny bottom for light/laser/VFG/etc. I pictured running a TLR-2 on the front as an alternative to a top mounted sight. I'm still thinking of putting a section of rail on the front anyways. I'm kinda pissed I didn't order the BFG when I first saw it. Oh, and I covered my cheekpiece with a foam from a handrail cover that goes on a treadmill

Mickey Rourke
09-15-2010, 03:48 PM
I was thinking of buying one in the g17 version, but am still on the fence. Its this or an RMR for my 34, for a bag/truck gun, if the red dot allows easy hits at 100 yds, why even bother. Anyone have an RMR-equiped 34 and a sub2k to compare and contrast? Decsions, Decsions.I don't have either an RMR or a Sub2K.

I do have a JPoint on my G19. Based on it's performance and the RMR's reported on this forum, I'm more in favor of the RMR-equipped pistol. I was going to get a Keltec, but I'm saving for an actual milled conversion now for my pistol.

The Glock is more compact and can be concealed in a smaller bag if that is the route you go. Also, it can be carried ready-to-go in an on-body holster. Downside is you don't have the extra contact points a PCC gives you.

Try carrying the Sub2K AIWB :D

alistar
09-15-2010, 04:16 PM
I have both the 9 and the 40 and have found them to be extremely reliable with glock 17 and 22 magazines, and the 31 and 22 rounders. Fits easily into a soft sided briefcase and easy to hit even with those lousy plastic sights out to 50 yards. Kel tec suggests that out of the longer barrel, the 9 has the same foot pounds as the .357. I haven't been able to find any data for the .40.

I think they fit well between the glock and the carbine. Bit of a chore to completely disassemble, but it doesn't need it very often. Love those boresnakes.

Bill Kutney
09-20-2010, 04:18 PM
Boy, I sure would love to see some data on this too. When I contacted Kel Tex, they told me they did not have any data, but my experince with mine mirrors that of the original post, great, fun and great fun!

TaxPhd
10-04-2010, 02:46 PM
Anyone have info. on the current street price? My local shop has a 9mm (Glock mag) version new for $299. Just wondering if I should pull the trigger.

Mickey Rourke
10-04-2010, 02:48 PM
Anyone have info. on the current street price? My local shop has a 9mm (Glock mag) version new for $299. Just wondering if I should pull the trigger.$375 out the door with the factory mag and one Happy Stick is the best price I've seen lately.

TaxPhd
10-04-2010, 02:50 PM
$375 out the door with the factory mag and one Happy Stick is the best price I've seen lately.

I can get Happy Sticks for $30.

Looks like a Sub2000 is headed for the safe.

GoCodeBravo
10-04-2010, 02:58 PM
Yes, it does fit in a laptop case. ;)

+1 on that. Most briefcases, about all backpacks, large beach totes, gym bags, tennis racket bags. I have tested all but one...you guess. Backpack is the 95% means to carry it...daily, in one of two cars.

62-10
10-05-2010, 05:52 PM
...My local shop has a 9mm (Glock mag) version new for $299. Just wondering if I should pull the trigger.

Yes, go for it.

moses1moses11
10-05-2010, 06:56 PM
I don't have either an RMR or a Sub2K.

The Glock is more compact and can be concealed in a smaller bag if that is the route you go. Also, it can be carried ready-to-go in an on-body holster. Downside is you don't have the extra contact points a PCC gives you.

Try carrying the Sub2K AIWB :D

Im shure there is a thread devoted to it, havent found it, but a glock stock like this can give u an extra point of contact, more concealable and cheaper too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4ytoM_N2Y8

Crucibleprep
10-05-2010, 07:01 PM
I ordered one of these sub2000 last week with the glock 17 grip, quoted lead time is 16-20 weeks... :(

Mickey Rourke
10-05-2010, 07:29 PM
Im shure there is a thread devoted to it, havent found it, but a glock stock like this can give u an extra point of contact, more concealable and cheaper too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4ytoM_N2Y8Not every state allows a shoulder-stocked pistol (classified as a short-barreled rifle [SBR]). Mine just approved them this year. Also costs an extra $200 to register it with the .gov. Another downside is that ATF has said the gun has to stay in SBR form the majority of the time and it requires paperwork filed in advance to transport out of state.

As for the thread on shoulder-stocked pistols (one of several, actually): http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=48817&highlight=stocked+pistol

manonfire1007
11-02-2010, 03:25 PM
I just took my sub2k out again. Put 300 of the worlds roughest reloads through it (the same reloads that gagged my previously flawless G26) . 600 total since cleaning. it ran like a champ. Hits at 140 yards are easy on a small propane tank (my version of minute of man).

I pulled it out of the car, cut off a length of paracord for a sling, slung it. Glock in the waistband with a ZAC, and maxpedition versipack pack as a dump pouch. I ran crap 9 all day. The glock choked twice on the reloads. These things had 1 inch strings of brass shavings coming off the sides from reseats. If the Sub can take more than my glock, its a winner in my book. As soon as I can take an SI class I'll post my results. I see it as a 150 yard carbine. Although I can replicate some of the Subbie shots with my g26, doing it reliably with the subbie is fantastic.
I'll clean it out tonight and see how filthy I got it. Its not an ak, but ti serves as a good enough gun for the majority of what I need it to.
As an aside, there was a deer carcass sitting in the middle of the impromptu range. I did some testing with the 9. coming out of the sub2k, the 9 blew right through the thickest bone with no trouble. good enough for me.

MikeE
11-02-2010, 08:01 PM
I have a sub2k for glock 17 mags. I notice that the last round fired in a mag is sometimes not ejected, winds up crushed, but comes out when mag is removed. This happened today 3x out of 5 mags fired. Any ideas here?

RayMich
11-02-2010, 09:19 PM
Anyone have info. on the current street price? My local shop has a 9mm (Glock mag) version new for $299. Just wondering if I should pull the trigger.
Is that for a new gun? Is it the G19 or G17 version? If that's the price for a new gun, I would say that's a very good price. I've seen the Kel-Tec P-11 pistols selling for that much around here, so if you can get the S2K carbine for that much, I say go for it.

TaxPhd
11-02-2010, 09:33 PM
Is that for a new gun? Is it the G19 or G17 version? If that's the price for a new gun, I would say that's a very good price. I've seen the Kel-Tec P-11 pistols selling for that much around here, so if you can get the S2K carbine for that much, I say go for it.

Yes, it's for a new one. But they sold it the day I went in to buy it.

All that I have seen will take G19 mags.

There are two shops that are selling them for $299, but all they have right now are .40's, and they are complaining they can't get more. Something about slow production or something from Kel-Tec.

alistar
11-04-2010, 06:12 AM
Go ahead and buy the .40. I have both calibers and was out with the .40 yesterday with 22 round and 15 round magazines; no issues. Much easier to keep all hits inside the 8" target at 25 yards than with the red dot sighted glock.

Definitely more of a jolt with the .40 than with the 9, and I found the velocity data below at the kel tec owners forum. Added a Pachymayr decellerator and duct taped a layer of mousepad at the place where my cheekbone rests and shooting is nice and comfortable, and quieter on the ear as the padding eliminates listening to that that annoying ring as the bolt slams back.

I opened up the hole in the rear site with a needle file on both subs enough to make the sight picture more pleasurable.

Remington 155 gr. JHP
Sub 2k 1431 fps energy 704 ftlbs
Sig 229 1188 fps 485 ftlbs

Winchester 165 gr FMJ
Sub 2k 1212 fps 538 ftlbs
Sig 229 1017 fps 379 ftlbs

Speer 180 gr Gold Dot HP
Sub 2k 1163 fps 540 ftlbs
kahr p40 976 fps 380 ftlbs

Federal Personal Defense 135 gr hydrashok
sub 2k 1493 fps 667 ftlbs
Kahr 1204 fps 434 ftlbs

Hornady 180 gr XTP
Sub 2k 1184 fps 560 ftlbs

Remington 165 gr Golden Sabre
Sub 2k 1324 fps 642 ftlbs

Federal 180 gr Hydra shok
Sub 2k 1205 fps 580 ftlbs

Speer 155 gr FMJ
Sub 2k 1157 fps 460 ftlbs

Federal American Eagle 180 gr FMJ
Sub 2k 1036 fps 429 ftlbs

Pict
11-04-2010, 06:32 AM
I lurk on all of these SUB 2000 threads but don't post much for lack of experience with the gun. I have shot one once at an indoor range and liked it.

When I am back in the States I do multi-state road trips, basically I'm spending long days in the car traveling to speaking engagements. The SUB 2000 seems like a really convenient long gun to have along considering that my standard travel gun is currently a Glock 17 or 19. I'm leaning towards the Glock 19 model as I already have a good supply of 17 and 19 mags with a few happy sticks. I have heard that the Glock 19 SUB 2000 has a really short grip. Is that a problem for anyone? I don't have large hands and being able to use all of my Glock mags makes sense to me.

alistar
11-04-2010, 07:08 AM
I lurk on all of these SUB 2000 threads but don't post much for lack of experience with the gun. I have shot one once at an indoor range and liked it.

When I am back in the States I do multi-state road trips, basically I'm spending long days in the car traveling to speaking engagements. The SUB 2000 seems like a really convenient long gun to have along considering that my standard travel gun is currently a Glock 17 or 19. I'm leaning towards the Glock 19 model as I already have a good supply of 17 and 19 mags with a few happy sticks. I have heard that the Glock 19 SUB 2000 has a really short grip. Is that a problem for anyone? I don't have large hands and being able to use all of my Glock mags makes sense to me.

I have the 17 and 22 subs and I don't have big hands. Even so, the 17 size is not too small (could be bigger). So, since consensus seems to be that more is better, most of the time you will have a 17 or 31 round mag in the gun, I would get the full size grip. The grip on subs does seem a little insubstantial, but it holds up well.

What condition do you plan to carry the gun in? Open bolt, or closed with one in the chamber and safety on?

alistar
11-04-2010, 07:14 AM
One other reason to have a lot of ammo in the gun is how much effort and time it takes to reload and draw the bolt back. Especially with the clumsy ergonomics of this process, as with most long guns, transition is a useful tactic.

user_name
11-04-2010, 09:39 AM
I've used my S2K at training events, and it holds up admirably. It's place is in the trunk of the Jeep (fyi, if you have a newer jeep wrangler, that little trunk spot under the rear deck by the jack fits it, and (4) G17 mags + (1) 33-rd stick perfectly!!). It does fit nicely into a laptop bag, and when folded can reasonably be slung somewhat concealed under a heavy jacket. I don't find its long range [in]effectiveness merits any kind of optic system since the factory sights are easy to see, even in low light and rugged enough to not have to baby them (rattles around wrapped in a towel worry-free). The interchangeability of G17 mags is unmatched. I bought that 33-round fun-stick for it... and just for kicks stuck it up my G26's butt.... it looked ridiculous, but 33 perfect, non jammed shots later, no one was laughing.

user_name
11-04-2010, 09:41 AM
Oh, one thing to note on the S2K... if you have a long beard, it can easily get caught in the bolt as it cycles. I've never seen it happen in person, but the story I heard sounded pretty rough :-)

Garloch
11-04-2010, 03:14 PM
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]I opened up the hole in the rear site with a needle file on both subs enough to make the sight picture more pleasurable.


I like that idea! The main thing that I don't like about mine is the difficulty in getting a quick sight picture. This should help. Thanks!

manonfire1007
11-08-2010, 09:18 PM
I took the subbie out and cleaned it. It was the filthiest gun I have ever cleaned. The breakdown is very simple, and the cleaning took little time.

After looking at the level of filth in it, I'm shocked and impressed that it functioned as well as it did. I've had AKs that had more trouble than this subbie.

ImFromTheGovt
11-09-2010, 04:57 AM
I have heard that the Glock 19 SUB 2000 has a really short grip. Is that a problem for anyone? I don't have large hands and being able to use all of my Glock mags makes sense to me.

Remember that the barrel / bolt is higher than in a typical Glock pistol, so the one that takes Glock 17 mags is already pretty much like a 19 grip size. The Glock 19-size S2K is more like a Glock 27 from what I hear. I understand your wish to be able to use ALL your mags in the gun, but play with at the store before you jump in because the one that takes the 19 mags might be too short...

You can always cut the grip down on the 17-sized model if you need to later...

John W in SC
11-09-2010, 05:22 AM
<snip> I have heard that the Glock 19 SUB 2000 has a really short grip. Is that a problem for anyone? I don't have large hands and being able to use all of my Glock mags makes sense to me.

My SUB 2000 takes the G19 mags, and will also take the longer G17 and G38 mags. It will not take the shorter G26 mags. I chose this version for precisely the reason you give, which is to be able to use as many of my other Glock mags as possible.

Yes, the grip is a bit short, but nothing that causes a problem. This is low powered for a long gun, so recoil isn't an issue. We could go on about the strange ergonomics of the SUB 2000, but grip length with the G19 grip isn't a factor at all.

If you already have a G 19 and mags for it, go with the G 19 version of the SUB 2000.

John W in SC

Pict
11-09-2010, 07:09 AM
Thanks for the feedback. The Sub 2000 really makes alot of sense as a travel long gun. It is one of the few long guns that can go through a hotel lobby in normal luggage.

Garloch
11-09-2010, 11:28 AM
Thanks for the feedback. The Sub 2000 really makes alot of sense as a travel long gun. It is one of the few long guns that can go through a hotel lobby in normal luggage.

I've done that a number of times, and have been glad that I had it. No, it isn't an assault rifle, but it is a devilshly clever little device. The ergonomics may leave a bit to be desired, but it is a reasonable sacrifice to be able to have such a light, folding "long" gun that takes the same mags as a glock. I keep three loaded mags with 165gr HST in the bag with the Sub2K, and with the three identical ones on me (including the one in the G35), that's 91 rounds of ammo. Hopefully that will be enough to get me through most scenarios.

Pict
11-09-2010, 01:23 PM
I don't think I would ever encounter something at a hotel that my Glock couldn't handle. I just don't like leaving guns in my car. I know there's the whole sneakybag concept but my AK is full stocked. I'll most likely have to sell my SKS to afford one.

Garloch
11-09-2010, 01:35 PM
I don't think I would ever encounter something at a hotel that my Glock couldn't handle. I just don't like leaving guns in my car. I know there's the whole sneakybag concept but my AK is full stocked. I'll most likely have to sell my SKS to afford one.

Same here. I wouldn't plan on trying to whup open the Sub2k in my hotel room, either. I like to travel with a long gun in case of societal breakdown, and leaving it in the car is not something that I'd do at a hotel. Often I carry a non-folding long gun around town, but when I travel overnight, it's something that fits in a small bag so I can carry it inside without arousing suspicion.

Condition Write
11-09-2010, 04:11 PM
I keep looking at the Sub2k, but I'm not a Glock owner (yeah, yeah). Is there any way to modify one to feed reliably from CZ 75 or XD9 magazines - maybe, for the XD, start with the Beretta-compatible model?

Junkyard
12-29-2010, 10:34 AM
Sorry for resurecting an old thread, but I am truely impressed with the g-17 model I picked up a month ago. Reading this thread pushed me into it. I just hit 1000 rounds through it without cleaning it. I have had ZERO malfunctions with it.
Off hand at 100 yards I can empty a happy stick into a 9" paper plate. I am sure it could do better if I stoped moving and actually gave a go at acuracy.
I am under no delusions that this would ever replace my ak, but it was never intended to. I can, however, see clear applications for it, especially in regards to portability and concealability. It also compliments my G-19 well, as the two spare mags I carry on my person are G-17 mags.

egalloway
12-30-2010, 12:27 PM
I trimmed a little off the grip bottom with a dremel so my regular sub2k would work with my g19 mags. All I carry is g17 mags as spares but murphys law and all... The one time I need it and need to reload whatever reason it would be a g19 that otherwise would not fit right? The grip is fine to very little removed.
FYI my s2000 has been in every hotel room(family vacations, work training, and SI training classes) I've been to for more than 2 years. Better muzzle velocity than the pistol improved accuracy over a pistol. And it's just as descreet to carry into the room as a pistol. Overall great carry package.

azerious85
01-06-2011, 09:42 PM
any comparison pics between G19 AND G17 sub-2k?

Mickey Rourke
01-15-2011, 07:19 AM
OK, I had been on the fence about getting a Sub2K for a while. I finally bought a G17-size Friday. The events of the past week may have swayed me somewhat.

Got one barely used with 2 G17 mags + the factory 10-round for $300. Not too bad.

The owner had a couple of happy sticks, but had sold them before I got there (darn snow and ice). It doesn't matter though. I'm planning to use the G17+2's with mine for the most capacity vs compactness for the package.

Now to get a small bag for carry.

ChuteTheMall
01-15-2011, 07:33 AM
any comparison pics between G19 AND G17 sub-2k?

I find the grip too small on the G19 sized sub2k; it feels much different from the Glocks and would leave my pinki finger dangling. The G17 sized sub2k feels right, about like a Glock 19. Totally subjective, I didn't have opportunity to measure both.

Mickey Rourke
01-15-2011, 07:44 AM
I find the grip too small on the G19 sized sub2k; it feels much different from the Glocks and would leave my pinki finger dangling.You could run a G19 mag w/finger extension or +2 base and it might feel OK.

My EDC is usually a G19 or 26, but I carry a G17 mag as a spare. I'll won't change this now that I have the Sub2K as I can use the spare it it also.

B+Shooter
01-15-2011, 07:11 PM
Did a lot of AK training today, but when I brought my Sub2000 out, the other guys got really interested. I think when I was consistently hitting the same steel with it that we were hitting with red dot AK's they were impressed. The idea of this set up for a backpack gun coupled with a pistol & interchangeable mags really sells this. I can't fathom getting rid of it, it's one of my favorites.

SqueeDAB
01-15-2011, 08:56 PM
I think when I was consistently hitting the same steel with it that we were hitting with red dot AK's they were impressed. The idea of this set up for a backpack gun coupled with a pistol & interchangeable mags really sells this.

My experience with my S2K (in .40) is very similar. It fits in my Camelback quite nicely. Glad I stocked up on a few 22 rounders a couple months ago.

TennDECA
01-15-2011, 09:08 PM
any comparison pics between G19 AND G17 sub-2k?

I don't have it, but saw a comparison pic on another forum. Basically, the G19 size S2K grip is about the same as the factory G26 grip. Two finger grip with the pinky wrapping the bottom. G19 mags fit flush because the receiver on the S2K is higher up the grip than on a G26. That's why a G17 size S2K has a grip size the same as a factory G19, but fits the longer G17 mags flush.

egalloway
01-19-2011, 07:12 AM
OK, I had been on the fence about getting a Sub2K for a while. I finally bought a G17-size Friday. The events of the past week may have swayed me somewhat.
Got one barely used with 2 G17 mags + the factory 10-round for $300. Not too bad.
The owner had a couple of happy sticks, but had sold them before I got there (darn snow and ice). It doesn't matter though. I'm planning to use the G17+2's with mine for the most capacity vs compactness for the package.
Now to get a small bag for carry.

Welcome to the dark side. I love mine. Good buy got mine new couple years ago for 350 with a happy stick.

907Thunder
01-20-2011, 12:04 PM
saw a G-17 flavored Keltec in .40 S&W at the gun show the other day so i bought it for 350$ I have one happy stick and two regular mags im so glad i found one...ive been trying to find one for 6months

Mickey Rourke
01-20-2011, 01:17 PM
I ran a few rounds through mine today, but it was very windy and 37 degrees. I'll wring it out more when it gets warmer.

Groups were centered, around 1", but about 3" low at 15 yds. Elevation was easily adjusted.

Base Bleed
01-20-2011, 07:57 PM
Smince,
I held a 40 cal version today and was surprised how solid it felt. I'd prefer the concept of a 9mm version. Based on what you've seen would you recommend it?

Mickey Rourke
01-21-2011, 03:57 AM
Based on what you've seen would you recommend it?Based on my limited experience, I am ready to give this a definite 'maybe'.

So far, all is well, but yesterday was the first and only time I've shot one. I found little to not like. Lightweight, low recoil, reasonably accurate and magazine/ammo commonality with my Glock pistols. The folding thing is OK, but not that important to me. I'll be walking around the mall with my RDS-sighted G19 concealed instead of this.

There are many threads on WT about their accuracy and reliability, which is another reason I finally got one. I've read little on the 'net about S2K problems compared to other Kel-Tec designs.

I'd really like to see a review from someone who has ran one through an SI rifle course and get their impressions.

johnnyrebel87
01-28-2011, 03:29 PM
Put a new 40 layaway today that takes glock mags. I had never even considered one...but finally found a glock 40 version in the store today...handled it...man that's a cool little gun. I suck at gun stores, can't go in wit cash or I impulse buy. Lol. I don't know much about em, I'll have to read a little on em. Man that things small when folded, and light.

Mickey Rourke
01-28-2011, 03:56 PM
I shot mine a little more this week.

I could keep a magazine inside 2" at 25 yds (slow fire) propping across the hood of my Jeep.

Did some shoulder transition drills and GOTX with it. No reliability problems in about 200 rounds so far.

The front sight is a PITA to adjust, but it should stay put once set.

Attention TSD: since Blue Force Gear doesn't make their metal replacement sight any longer, we may have another project you need to look at :wink:

johnnyrebel87
01-28-2011, 05:03 PM
I shot mine a little more this week.

I could keep a magazine inside 2" at 25 yds (slow fire) propping across the hood of my Jeep.

Did some shoulder transition drills and GOTX with it. No reliability problems in about 200 rounds so far.

The front sight is a PITA to adjust, but it should stay put once set.

Attention TSD: since Blue Force Gear doesn't make their metal replacement sight any longer, we may have another project you need to look at :wink:

Awesome. Any companies that make gear for it still? I'll look up that blue force company. I'm curious to see a benchrest sandbag group from that gun, I betitl do an inch at 20 yards, my old hi point carbine did.

alistar
01-28-2011, 06:09 PM
The front sight is a PITA to adjust, but it should stay put once set.



These just cry out for a red dot mount that will fold to the side so as to not interfere with the folding of the carbine.

I have seen pictures and references to these over the years: If anyone comes up with a good solution, please post it to this thread or pm me.

Picture from Oleg Volk:

SqueeDAB
01-28-2011, 06:49 PM
These just cry out for a red dot mount that will fold to the side so as to not interfere with the folding of the carbine.


I've been looking into the same. My buddy has an Eotech x3 with a side-folding mount that seems like it'd be perfect. Haven't had a chance to test it. Might still require some dremel or milling work to recess the mount.

SqueeDAB
01-28-2011, 06:51 PM
Awesome. Any companies that make gear for it still? I'll look up that blue force company. I'm curious to see a benchrest sandbag group from that gun, I betitl do an inch at 20 yards, my old hi point carbine did.

There are some, but I'll have to dig. Most of it doesn't seem like anything necessary. The front sight was the best accessory I've seen. There are added butt-pads, some company used to make a railed handguard, and there's a device for the stock that will allow a mag to be stored. I'll dig a bit and send a PM.

alistar
01-28-2011, 07:24 PM
This guy did a good job, but I am but a simple caveman and have no machinist's skills or equipment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxeKzpK9OgI

johnnyrebel87
01-28-2011, 07:28 PM
Thanks, squee. I'm having trouble finding anything...my google-fu must be broke tonight :-/

Coolhand77
01-29-2011, 09:22 AM
Theres some magnifier and NV mounts out there that could work. Some are flip to the side, and theres a new one that "twists" out of the way. I think Larue makes it.

johnnyrebel87
01-29-2011, 09:56 AM
Ordered the tube cover from tacticoolproducts.com.

Can't wait to shoot it. Looks like it will add about 200fps or so to the .40 slugs, almost like shooting 10mm. Might be my new coyote gun!

SqueeDAB
01-29-2011, 04:55 PM
Took mine to the range today and consistently put coffee cup sized groups at 50yds with the factory sight (basically took out the facial eyes-and-upper-lip triangle of a profile target).

I've put about 400 rounds (via 22 round .40 Happy Sticks) through mine so far without a hiccup.

SqueeDAB
01-29-2011, 05:24 PM
Ordered the tube cover from tacticoolproducts.com.

Can't wait to shoot it. Looks like it will add about 200fps or so to the .40 slugs, almost like shooting 10mm. Might be my new coyote gun!

I've read that the extra barrel length helps bring the .40 up to .41 mag energy/ballistic levels.

I think it'd fill the coyote gun role nicely.

alistar
01-29-2011, 06:51 PM
Some interesting data

SqueeDAB
01-29-2011, 09:17 PM
Thanks for the chart, Alistar

74novaman
02-03-2011, 12:08 PM
Just picked one up in 9mm. Functioned fine, shot well. The only problem I have is I'm a lefty. So everytime I shoot it, I get a blast of hot gas and powder in the face. Not a problem on the range with glasses on, but its got me a bit worried about blinding myself in a self defense situation. Seems even temporary blindness would be a bad thing if I was fighting for my life.

osagemarine
02-20-2011, 12:59 PM
i always wear glasses. change lenses when it gets dark. your other option is to run it as a righty. i carry mine and never even worry about the gas, but i have shot it without glasses southpaw and its not an issue.

Mickey Rourke
02-20-2011, 01:10 PM
Just picked one up in 9mm. Functioned fine, shot well. The only problem I have is I'm a lefty. So everytime I shoot it, I get a blast of hot gas and powder in the face. Not a problem on the range with glasses on, but its got me a bit worried about blinding myself in a self defense situation. Seems even temporary blindness would be a bad thing if I was fighting for my life.I ran mine in some shoulder transitions (from the AK DVD) and didn't notice any gas in the face at all :confused:

Tengu Joker
02-23-2011, 04:34 PM
13391
13392
13393

My favs from the Kel-Tec forums, in the bottom one the owner moved the charging handle ...

johnnyrebel87
02-23-2011, 05:22 PM
Scott, I didn't realize Bama SBR SBS were already in effect!!!!!

denko
02-23-2011, 06:45 PM
I like that,I like it allot.

cbrant
02-23-2011, 06:52 PM
I really like my Subbie, but it seems that the optics start to negate one of the major advantages of it, which is the small package when it is folded.
I've seen a springed hinge and rotating hand guard that allow optics to still be attached and the rifle folded, but for a 125 yard rifle it seems all like overkill adding significantly to the weight.

At some point it pays just to steep up to the AR/AK

Crucibleprep
02-23-2011, 08:19 PM
I've been waiting around 15 weeks on mine, when I called this week they said delivery is still 1-2 months out... :(

Mickey Rourke
02-24-2011, 02:01 AM
Scott, I didn't realize Bama SBR SBS were already in effect!!!!!Yeah, they went into effect last July. IIRC, 60 days after the vote.

Jethro Bodine
09-21-2011, 06:42 PM
I have been looking for the Glock 9mm version for 6 months now. I finally found a slightly used one at the gun show (with 33rd mag and case) for $220. Ya I dropped the $. Now I'm trolling for ideas on a reflex sight. I like the spring hinge idea. Or maybe an old "tip-off" scope mount. Hope for range time this weekend.

Mickey Rourke
09-22-2011, 01:22 AM
Now I'm trolling for ideas on a reflex sight. I like the spring hinge idea. Or maybe an old "tip-off" scope mount. Hope for range time this weekend.http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?89228-S2K-Optic-Idea

Jethro Bodine
09-28-2011, 07:44 PM
I tried the spring mount and the 45 degree mount. Some fooling around to get them to work, but I have decided to for-go the optic. The thin, snag free design is what I need. I mean really, a scope would be great, but a red dot (not magnified) is not alot of help for me past 150 yds anyway. So I will spend $ on happy sticks instead.

Jethro Bodine
10-12-2011, 07:48 PM
I'm an idiot! Went to the range, was able to make head shots at 50yds, torso shots at 100yds. Not too happy with those results. I had the stock sights on it. I took the plunge and cut off the front sight, installed 2 universal picatinny quad rails at the end of the bbl. One hung slightly off the end of the bbl. The other was next to the forearm. I put an old Ultra Dot red dot scope on it and took it back out. Now I am 1.5 inch at 50 yds, 5in at 100 yds. Holds zero. Still folds up aallmmoosstt the same size as before. Head shots at 100? I'm sold on this little critter. And 100% reliability. Something to think about.

kabar
10-12-2011, 08:05 PM
Pics or it didn't happen! :thumbsup:

Actually, I just want to see how you did it.

Jethro Bodine
10-18-2011, 07:49 AM
Bear with me. I'm really slow on the pic thing. Ok I have not figured it out yet. I will figure it out and post some. I think you will like it. Or pm me and I can email them.

Jethro Bodine
10-18-2011, 02:53 PM
lets try this pic thing.

Jethro Bodine
10-18-2011, 03:03 PM
50 yards with the red dot

Jethro Bodine
10-18-2011, 03:05 PM
and 100 yards for the disbelievers. This was with 115 gn S&B ball ammo.

Jethro Bodine
10-18-2011, 03:07 PM
IIRC, the smaller holes were from my 10/22

Jethro Bodine
10-18-2011, 03:23 PM
Here is another view of the scope

DmDbo
10-18-2011, 03:59 PM
Is the rearward picatinny quad rail long enough to mount a t1/h1/trs25 etc. red dot to avoid the second quad rail and third pic rail?

Jethro Bodine
10-18-2011, 04:38 PM
Good question. I found I needed the riser to bring the scope up enough to be functional. I do not have any experience with the optics you mentioned. My red dot is 5.1" long. The rails are under 2" each.

Mickey Rourke
10-18-2011, 05:22 PM
Similar to my idea in the other thread. Only my idea was to keep the stock sight and off-set the RDS at an angle to allow the S2K to retain folding capability.

I like it, though.

Jethro Bodine
10-18-2011, 06:37 PM
I tried the 45 degree offset. I found 2 problems. First it hung up when pulling it out of my backpack. Second I could not switch sides. I think if you use a shorter red dot sight and mount it on the end of the bbl you will be able to close it further. What I found with my set up is that is folds up almost into a rectangle, and therefore fits in a pack easily. Just my 0.02.

Corbin
10-14-2012, 02:36 PM
Hi guys.

I had a similar idea, but haven't got the mount yet. I purchased one of those barrel clamp quad rails, but removed the right rail, so I didn't have to cut my stock HG any more than necessary (I'm a lefty). I would have removed the top rail too, but that would have gotten too close to the bolts that held it together. The spring loaded hinge idea on that youtube vid looks interesting though.

Anyway, I'm looking at either a 45 degree offset mount or even a straight (to the side) mount that can attach to the left side rail and allow the micro RD to sit slightly off to the left, allowing the carbine to still fold.

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr298/Saiga-Fan/newer.jpg

I know the grips are off in the pic. LOL. I've been playing around with a range toy idea of a slide-fire type stock. Completely unecessary, but I get bored sometimes. :ponder:

The cocking handle has a 40 cent rubber stopper/cork that I drilled out. The nylon brass catcher is more to keep burnt powder from hitting me in the face than catching brass. The curse of being a lefty.

B+Shooter
10-14-2012, 03:20 PM
At the risk of the Ban Hammer- check out Red Lion Precision. They make a railed forend that swivels 180 degrees. A guy running one with a Leupold Deltapoint said he had no loss of zero running it folded/deployed.

Dark1
10-14-2012, 03:31 PM
Looks very front heavy and cumbersome with a a scope all the way at the end of the barrel like that have you tried CQB drills with it yet ? Also I would be scared of it getting snagged on stuff if I had out in the brush with that much stuff hanging so far out. I do not like it at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk DAMB AUTO CORECT !!

B+Shooter
10-14-2012, 03:55 PM
The forend with little/no rails, and a rear seated MRDS/H1/Deltapoint would be great. I don't like the picture on their website, but the one I saw in use had a better setup.

Tony71
10-14-2012, 05:47 PM
Looks very front heavy and cumbersome with a a scope all the way at the end of the barrel like that have you tried CQB drills with it yet ? Also I would be scared of it getting snagged on stuff if I had out in the brush with that much stuff hanging so far out. I do not like it at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk DAMB AUTO CORECT !!

I have the RL HG. It works really well. Holds the zero and after about 3000 rounds, never had any issues with the HG

Mickey Rourke
10-14-2012, 05:49 PM
You've got to ask though, how much are you willing to spend and add to an S2K?

Goodspeed(TPF)
10-15-2012, 09:03 AM
You've got to ask though, how much are you willing to spend and add to an S2K?

Exactly. It's quite handy and unique in it's original, as shipped configuration but once you start spending money on "tacticool" add-ons it gets more expensive and less useful. I think they fill a very small, unique requirement iffin you leave them alone.

Garloch
10-15-2012, 10:07 AM
I agree. The only mods that I made to mine were to bevel the chamber mouth a little bit and to open up the peep sight. I wouldn't mind having a couple of other improvements to it, but I really don't want to waste anymore money on what amounts to little more than a throwaway gun.

Mickey Rourke
10-15-2012, 10:53 AM
but I really don't want to waste anymore money on what amounts to little more than a throwaway gun.^THIS^

If you are going to put this kind of $$$ in an S2K, put a little more in and get an Uzi.

manonfire1007
11-04-2012, 06:40 PM
How long is the uzi w/ folding stock? Any way to get an Uzi into a 16 inch laptop bag in a non sbr state?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Garloch
11-04-2012, 06:51 PM
How long is the uzi w/ folding stock? Any way to get an Uzi into a 16 inch laptop bag in a non sbr state?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Dunno the answer to your question, but the barrel comes on and off in just a few seconds, so taken apart it should be 16" long.

manonfire1007
11-04-2012, 10:01 PM
Huh. Didn't expect that. Maybe its an option.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Scottman
11-09-2012, 04:18 PM
My sub was doing about 8 inch groups from the bench at 100 yds with the irons.

manonfire1007
02-25-2013, 11:38 PM
Will be traveling by air coming up. Want to take a rifle, but don't want the obvious make in and out of airport. Could have gone smaller, but chose a regular sized toolbox. Sub2k and glock fits well, and passes the lock ability test. Usually a laptop bag accomplishes the same when traveling by car. Say what you will about a pistol caliber carbine, but it extends my reach and travels like no other rifle can. I love this setup. Am trying to add a qd rmr to it. Will post when i get it done.