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Lou Costello
10-14-2004, 07:15 AM
Just wondering what weight heavy bags people use for SD training.

A long time ago I used to work with a spring suspended 120# bag. Tough on the wrists and knuckles.

A few years ago I switched to an Everlast 40# bag. Easier on my wrists and it moves more like somebody would if they got hit.

Do three 2 minute rounds (mandatory 8 kicks) just to try to keep in shape.

Vinnie Moscaritolo
10-14-2004, 07:44 AM
you don't want to do heavy bags for long term training, it actually will slow you down a bit. You should use them but not as the bulk of your training.. I can also personally attest to the fact that it does cause damage to your joints over long term.. wait till you get older and find out. when you use a heavy bag, you must be sure to wrap your wrists and hands properly.. any good boxing coach should be able to show you how.

you use the light bag for speed and timing..

but let me ask, are you planning to fight in a ring?

Lou Costello
10-14-2004, 07:58 AM
I am older! I had to show my AARP card yesterday in order to get my flu shot.

michael
10-14-2004, 02:42 PM
I have both a wavemaster and a BOB bag. They are both great for what I use them for. I've used heavy, sand-filled bags, but don't see the need anymore.

Decado
10-14-2004, 07:20 PM
I always liked the 6' long banana bag that the Thai Boxers favored. In fact I have been thinking of buying one for my basement, along with a double end ball to get some h2h practice in.

Decado

Skpotamus
10-15-2004, 01:00 AM
You work on Heavy bags for power, you shadow spar for speed, you use hand pads for timing and accuracy. You can modify your workouts, and use the heavy bag for combo training with more timing involved (add in a swing), but it will slow you down.

If you're doing any type of pad work, be it on focus/hand or heavy, you need to wrap your hands as stated above.

I second the recommendation for getting a Thai banana bag. It gives you a full sized target, with resistance. I've played with BOB bags and other life like dummy systems and standing bags. I've knocked all of them over with anything near a full power punch (combo) or kick. The thai bag you won't knock over. Plus the added weight (120lbs versus most bags in the 70-80 lb range) makes the bag act a little more like a real person.

The best workout if you're looking for pad drills, IMHO, is getting a good padholder and working out on focus mitts and thai hand/arm pads for everything. A good partner will push you, a bag will only push as hard as you push yourself. You can spar, work grab regrabs, and a whole realm of other moves you can't with a bag.

I will respectfully disagree with the comment about bag work causing joint problems. I've seen no studies that could prove that working on a heavy bag with proper wraps and gloves can cause any type of long term damage. Plus, from my (limited I'm only 23) years of gym time, I've seen a lot of older guys who've boxed for years (one of the coaches in my first gym was 64 when I started) who had no hand, elbow or shoulder problems that could be attributed to boxing. He continued to work out on the bags until he had to have a a heart surgery when he was 71. Then he backed off a little bit on the training and focused almost entirely on coaching.

Decado
10-15-2004, 06:14 AM
I couldn't agree more skpotamus. When I was applying to my former dept. for a full time position working out with on the Thai Pads was one of the best things I did to get ready for the PT test. My training partner had trained with some of the top Muay Thai instructors in the country and really kicked my ass. :D Other then full on sparring in Brazilian jui-jitsu I have never had a harder workout then on the Thai Pads.

Decado

Justin_P
10-16-2004, 11:55 AM
As long as you're punching properly, you shouldn't hurt your joints. That includes wrapping your hands, using good gloves, making a proper fist, not bending your wrist upon impact, and not locking your elbow. Failure do do any of those will lead to injury.

It's a VERY good idea to make sure that you do excersizes to strengthen your grip and your forearms. This will help a lot in making a proper fist and make your wrist less likely to bend upon impact.

Besides, there are other things you can do on a heavy bag. Elbow shots, knees, and kicks can be developed on a proper punching bag.

I have to side with the crowd with the Banana Bag. Ringside has a 100 lbs bag that I can vouch for favorably. Use a punching bag to develop power. The heavier, the better.

Coops
10-18-2004, 01:06 PM
I think that the heavy bag could cause joint problems for some people. However, being the sufferer of two broken wrists, I still use the bag for fight fitness. To qualify that a bit more, I had to re-educate myself to punch straight on with a vertical fist. I cannot hook as that causes me pain, but if I straight punch I can get a great workout on the bag.

I have no interest in sport fitness though. I tend to work on full power punches to sap my anaerobic capacity. I might work the bag for a minute then have twenty seconds off, then work again. That for three rounds is taxing. Doing it that way actually makes it safer because after after the first round, you're weaker so don't hit as hard. Thus the impact is less because you're taxing the muscles so much.

As for the weight, too heavy can hurt the wrist. I find that if the bag moves when you hit it that actually reduced the stress on the joints. Too light is worse though - I hate chasing the bag when my aim is anaerobic stress.

I agree with Justin, elbows are a great taxer. One minute of them exhausts your shoulders and trunk muscles.

Decado - you must be some warrior. Those Muay Thai guys are way too fit for us old timers :)

Skpotamus - I agree with your comments about bag work being safe, so long as you train right. I've been hitting things for thirty years (some of them hit back unfortunately :o ) and even with damaged wrists I can still hit a bag, so long as I'm careful with my joints. I belive it's due to punching being a gross motor manouvre. There's no strange twists on joints and no odd positions needed. Punching is simply an extension of the arm, so it doesn't over stretch any joints. Just keep the wrist straight. You don't even have to tighten a clenched fist so long as the hand, wrist and arm are aligned.

An exellent workout, especially as the winter closes in and outside work becomes distasteful. Also, when it comes down to it, close quarter stuff means hitting hard, not fast. Put the BG down NOW! some people can do it without training. I'm not any sort of natural athlete so I have to work for it :(

Those that are meeting in Memphis - what about some training after school (or before school). Maybe look at some of our 'Fit to Fight' drills? If you've got the bottle that is :D

BladeMaster
11-19-2004, 02:46 PM
Howdy, Just to weigh in...I use the bag for primarily knees & elbows and open hand "face/rib" work. No real tax on the joints & the open hand slaps toughen the hand. Good for jaw dislocations if they are slack jawed at the time of impact. Keep practice'n.

Charles Rives
11-19-2004, 02:53 PM
In Michael Janich's Book Homemade Martial Arts Training Equipment : A Do-It-Yourself Guide (Paperback: 112 pages, Publisher: Paladin Press (July, 002) ISBN: 158160341X) He has a neat design for a homemade freestanding heavy bag. I built mine for about $50. It's a flexible design. You can play with it a little. I substituted some cheap ground sleeping pad from the camping section at WalMart for some of the other padding material.

Chuck

Coops
11-19-2004, 03:30 PM
For years I've slung a heavy bag in the rafters of my garage. If there's only one or two people using the bag there's no need for a leather one. A vinyl one will set you back about 20 ($30 ish). It will serve you well for many years training.

Francisp
11-29-2004, 07:43 PM
Coops on the present dollar-sterling exchange rate it may very well be over FORTY DOLLARS! As recently as March, the dollar was 2.05 on the sterling!

Coops
11-30-2004, 02:28 PM
Coops on the present dollar-sterling exchange rate it may very well be over FORTY DOLLARS! As recently as March, the dollar was 2.05 on the sterling!

Cheers Francisp, but what price your fitness :D

Ares
12-11-2004, 01:56 PM
A couple of you guys mentioned that working on a heavy bag will slow you down. Why is this the case? I'm not implying it's not true I have just never honestly heard that before, please fill me in.

Coops
12-11-2004, 03:04 PM
A couple of you guys mentioned that working on a heavy bag will slow you down. Why is this the case? I'm not implying it's not true I have just never honestly heard that before, please fill me in.

It won't Ares187.

Training can be segmented into three areas - static, fluid and dynamic. I would suggest that bag hitting in in the static part.

Fluid might be a spontanious drill with focus mitts. Dynamic mightuse a FIST suited adversary who shouts and swears at you.

If you get away from the SD environment, bag work is damn hard and good for that reason.It makes you fitter, hit harder and be able to work longer.

Exellent training!!

Skpotamus
12-12-2004, 12:29 AM
Ares187, the common though in boxing gyms is that working on only the heavy bag will slow you down while increasing your power. No one has ever been able to tell me why exactly, but I have noticed in my own training that when I would just use the heavy bag for a few weeks to stay in shape, and went back into the gym, I was punching slower. When I do more shadow boxingt I punch faster, but not as hard.

I think the difference was in my recovery after punches. When I'm hitting the heavy bag, My fist connects, pushes into the bag, making my arm work harder, while this is happening, the bag is stopping my punch, all the momentum etc, and then I pull the arm back with no real resistance. Muscles going out got more workout, but muscles coming back got less.

When I shadow box, I have to stop the punch on my own, then pull it back. The muscles invovled with pulling the arm back got more of a workout while the muscles going out get less.

Also, when I work the heavy bag, I'm relatively stationary, even if I'm doing footwork and trying to focus on movement, I'm in a relatively small area, maybe an 8 foot circle. When I shadow box, I tend to move more, use the whole ring, punch covering more distance, etc.

I think you need a good mix, my boxing coach told me to do as many rounds shadow boxing as I do on pads. IE, 6 rounds on focus pads, 6 rounds on heavy bag, then 12 rounds shadow boxing.

Ares
12-12-2004, 01:55 PM
Makes perfect sense to me by your analysis.

bodyguard
12-15-2004, 06:26 AM
Just wondering what weight heavy bags people use for SD training.


me heavy bags weight around 220 pounds

the underside bottom of the bag hangs on approximately 4" off the floor

lenght of the bag is approximately 7 feet , width about 20"

looks a resembles a little bit a Thai banana bag

@lou


it moves more like somebody would if they got hit. mine moves also like this

@vinnie


you don't want to do heavy bags for long term training, it actually will slow you down a bit....that it does cause damage to your joints over long term
I personal find that not true


The best workout if you're looking for pad drills, IMHO, is getting a good padholder and working out on focus mitts and thai hand/arm pads for everything. A good partner will push you, a bag will only push as hard as you push yourself. You can spar, work grab regrabs, and a whole realm of other moves you can't with a bag.
200% true