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View Full Version : Need advice on scope from Snipers/Long Range Shooters



Jack-O
07-05-2008, 12:02 PM
I'm looking for a good scope for a 300WM/1500 yard class rifle. it's going to be a bolt gun that is capable of 1/2MOA accuracy. THIS IS NOT A GEURILLA SNIPER GUN!!!

The issue I'm running into is that I'm not sure what magnification or reticle I should get. I am also worried about one of the scopes that only has 3 1/3" eye relief. I think that would be workable but at the lower end to be sure.

here are my questions for those with actual expereince with this type of optic

1- is the 3.3" eye relief OK?
2- how many MOA of adjustment do I REALLY need?
3- How much magnification is enough and how much is too much or unusable?
4- whats the benefit of first focal plane again?
5- which give more benefit a mil based scope with mil adjustments or a MOA based scope with MOA adjustments.


just as a heads up, so you know where I'm pointed, I've kinda narrowed down the choices to 2 scopes:
-the IOR 3-18 x 42 (in either MOA or Mils)
- the Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50 in MOA reticle and adjustments


I kinda like the MOA system as it's really easy to figure and estimate. IIRC I wanted the first focal plane which allows range estimation at any magnification (IIRC).

my biggest question was about the magnification. I didnt want to lose too much on the low end if the high end wasn't gonna get used or was unnecessary. Ideally I'd get a 2-22 x 45 scope. a little advice or well reasoned opinion is requested in this area please.

thanks
Jack

Onemoretime
07-05-2008, 09:44 PM
I've had both.... get the Nightforce, trust me.

SteveOR
07-12-2008, 10:16 AM
If you are going to be determining range by use of your scopes reticle. The FFP reticle will be accurate at any power setting. If not FFP then the reticle is only accurate for measuring at the highest power setting.

SteveOR
07-12-2008, 10:23 AM
If you put a 20 MOA base it will help. The problem I have encountered is that a scope with lots of adjustment may not zero for you at zero. Example I am currently playing with a high end scope on a 15 MOA base that still uses up half its adjustment just to get a zero at 100 yds. so I have 31 moa of adj left in it. This limits me to about 1150 yards.
My bad - I was caught on an internal elevation turret cam that turns upper indicator to yellow when past first revolution. This scope does have 65 MOA +

( as far as 2900 fps out of a 190 gr - I do not max out my loads in an attempt to maximize my brass reuseage. )

I changed the Ballistic coeficient to a more accurate model and get 50.6 MOA to 1500 yds... Your actual mileage may vary...

dletsch
01-31-2009, 07:38 AM
I assume you have read Zak Smith's article on optics?

http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/

Also consider the new Premier Reticle scopes. 117MOA total internal travel, really well-thought-out features. Premier actually made the Schmidt and Bender scopes that the Marines are using. They are currently advertising the 3-15x50, but I have handled the 5-25, and it may be the perfect scope for you.

It is mils/mils, but that is the way to go. I wish my S&B was mils/mils.

Jack-O
01-31-2009, 09:59 AM
I actually talked to him about this. that is an excellent article though.

I decided to go with a MOA/MOA since i already have a firm grasp of the MOA concept and it doesnt require a calculator to use. Mil's is completely foriegn to me and doesnt offer any advantages over the MOA setup TMK

I also decided that the USO was the scope for me as it had the FFP and a large knob that didnt have 6 turns or more to get the elevation. it only requires like 1 or 2 turns so it'll be less difficult to get lost in rotations

I think I've settled on the 3.8-22x sn-3


now all I have to do is come up with $2800 for the thing, then wait 3 months.:dope:

mooseman100
01-31-2009, 12:50 PM
I also have a 300wm that I use for long distance shooting. I have shot Shepherd scopes, don't do that, and leupold with Premier reticles, don't do that either.
I shot IOR and Nightforce prior to purchasing mine. I felt IOR had better glass, but I also liked the MOA idea and went with the 5.5x22x50 Nightforce. This is my mountian hunting rifle and it endured a trip on horseback and backpack this past fall with no worries. It tool a pretty good beating and is all marked up from going through the alders and willows in the northern Yukon. Zero held and it never fogged in the snow/rain days nor on the days of heavy fog. I would recommenc the .85 mounts in order to get good cheek weld. Mine are 1.12 and too high so I had to put on a cheek piece with foam under it to get a leverl sight line.

I think I paid 1400ish this past summer.

dletsch
01-31-2009, 02:50 PM
I actually talked to him about this. that is an excellent article though.

I decided to go with a MOA/MOA since i already have a firm grasp of the MOA concept and it doesnt require a calculator to use. Mil's is completely foriegn to me and doesnt offer any advantages over the MOA setup TMK

I also decided that the USO was the scope for me as it had the FFP and a large knob that didnt have 6 turns or more to get the elevation. it only requires like 1 or 2 turns so it'll be less difficult to get lost in rotations

I think I've settled on the 3.8-22x sn-3


now all I have to do is come up with $2800 for the thing, then wait 3 months.:dope:

I think you have made an excellent choice, just understand that a FFP reticle will be almost invisible at 3.8x, and too large for some precision work at 22x.

For my eyes (yours may be different), mils offer better range estimation than MOA in terms of both practical utility and "cluttering" of the image. Plus, 1/10 mil clicks are just about perfect for shooting humanoid targets at distance - .5 MOA is too much, 1/4 MOA is too little, .1 MIL is just right. YMMV, and at 1500 yards it may be that 1/4MOA is preferable assuming you have the shooting skill and the rifle accuracy.

I don't think you can go wrong quality-wise with US Optics. S&B or Premier. Nightforce makes a quality scope, but the mil measurements are wrong on many/most (all, according to some people) of them. Their MOA reticle may be fine.

With 300WM and a brake or suppressor, 3 1/3" will be enough eye relief. Without a brake or suppressor, it will still be enough eye relief but you are getting close.

ticboom
01-31-2009, 04:16 PM
I've owned them all, and I'm back to S&B when I feel rich, and Nightforce when I dont. I believe USO are overbuilt, bulky without design, and heavy. I have beat the crap out of several nightforce lately, and I am impressed.