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SMDS141
09-27-2003, 10:15 AM
I just received another product from Kramer's two days ago and once again I am pleased with what I bought. I purchased an IWB for my S&W 640-1 (.357) and the holster fits like a glove. My gun actually snaps into the holtser like a Glock snaps into a plastic holster that was molded for it. This is the third product I have bought from them over that last few years, and while they are a bit expensive it's well worth the investment. I never understood why someone would spend hundreds of dollars buying the perfect gun for them and then buy the cheapest hoslter off the rack they could. It's like buying a brand new car and then putting the cheapest tires you could find on it, just doesn't make sense.

RhoneRanger
09-27-2003, 06:37 PM
I am still waiting for my first true custom holster, ordered from Taurus Leather for my Kimber Gold Combat. I spent alot of time searching through the web sites and 1911 Forum before choosing this shop. It was supposed to take 3-4 weeks, but I am now going on the 6th week, should be soon. I was going to buy from Horseshoe Leather out of England, but could not get through the money transfer problem, maybe next time. It would be great hearing what everyone else is using, or has chosen not to use.
Thanks........RhoneRanger

M700
09-27-2003, 07:28 PM
Nearly ten years ago I bought a Kramer IWB for my 1911. It hasn't been a daily wear kind of holster, but often. After all that time, it still fits me and the pistol very well. The quality looked great then, and now it's proven to be very durable. Kramer makes a mighty fine holster. Regards, Guy

SMDS141
09-27-2003, 07:33 PM
Nearly ten years ago I bought a Kramer IWB for my 1911. It hasn't been a daily wear kind of holster, but often. After all that time, it still fits me and the pistol very well. The quality looked great then, and now it's proven to be very durable. Kramer makes a mighty fine holster. Regards, Guy
For those not familiar, Kramer uses mostly horse hide to my understanding; which is thinner and more tough than cowhide. The holster will wear like iron for years to come, my feeling is you cannot go wrong with their products.

rjg45
09-27-2003, 09:49 PM
I also like Kramers. I have two IWB3 - one for my GLock 23 and one for my full size 1911. Very rugged, very comfortable, well made and can be adjusted for different belt widths which is a nice plus. I also have an IWB2 for a SIG P226 which is also worked very well (I've since sold the SIG).

RJG45

billcameron
09-28-2003, 01:26 PM
Another fan of Kramer horsehide here. I am wearing a Kramer IWB, FBI tilt with 1.5" double thick belt all in horsehide carrying glock 27. Have been wearing this rig for two years daily. It really holds up. Have about half a dozen Kramer holsters. They have great retention, never had a problem. While I don't chase BG and jump over fences I have done normal household stuff wearing holster and no problems. However, Kramers can be tight, tight out of the box- as in pulling gun up to armpit and gun still in holster. For this I recommend another great product- rosen's leather lighting. Will come back and post a link. Rosen also have very expensive stuff. I only have his pocket holster for smith 640, but it catchs on pocket for me where I had problem in this regard with Kramer pocket holster.

http://www.mitchrosen.com/


And while I am at it. Link to Kramer


http://www.kramerleather.com/

devotedad
09-28-2003, 06:30 PM
My very first quality holster was and is my Kramer #3 for the G19. BC is right, very tight out of the box and squeeked pretty loud too, especially with a leather belt while moving around, i almost considered returning it because it was pretty loud, even walking around a grocery store isle. But after a couple of weeks of daily wear, it was broken in and now nearly 11 years later, it is still going strong. Just FYI, it rides fairly high compared to the low ride IWB's from say, bladetech, and if the belt is not cinched tight, can flop around becasue it rides high. The adjustable belt loops is a plus too.
DD

spmacq
09-28-2003, 11:40 PM
.... I never understood why someone would spend hundreds of dollars buying the perfect gun for them and then buy the cheapest hoslter off the rack they could. It's like buying a brand new car and then putting the cheapest tires you could find on it, just doesn't make sense.

But after you wear out the set that came with the vehicle, it's a crap shoot on the replacement.

I think it's easier to find a weapon that works for you than it is to find out what really works for carry. (like tires, you have 60K miles and a lot of rotating).

I love blade-tech holsters for times and places that you can get away with and dress (heavy) for them, but when it comes to everyday wear at work (my job is a big corporation) and other places, it's just plain better to have a gun in a comfy holster, even if you can't get to it in record times. That said, I have to recommend a look at this Kramer holster, which I have worn for about a year:

http://www.gokart.net/cgi-bin/store.cgi/kramer?page=/hholsters/iwbsheep/index.html&cart_id=%%cart_id%%

After trying many IWBs, this one wins out in terms of comfort and concealment. Even wearing shorts and a t-shirt, I have not 'been made' with it. I fully understand that it does not cut it with many retention arguments, but it is so comfortable and concealed that you are more likely to have it on you than not, and that takes care of that, since there is no retention argument if you are not carrying.

Happy Joy Features -

- Well, it's Kramer.
- The holster itself is horsehide, and mixed with your own sweat, forms very nicely to the weapon, even if the mold used was not your own gun.
- Nicely glued to the holster is a perfectly cut piece of sheep skin. Acts kind of like wool sock in wicking away moisture. Not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter.
- On that note, the sheepskin keeps the pointy parts of the weapon, which transfer to a well molded holster, off the tender parts of the belt line.
- concealment is optimal. Tucks where a man would not think it would because it is painless.

Joyless -

- The clip is still a clip, and can be rotated quickly by a trained individual
- The sheepskin adds about a half an inch to the waistline (I have been forced to reduce my age 40 waistline because I don't want to buy new trousers - good incentive I might add)

Glad to have a prima-donna free forum - thanks Gabe.


Mac

adriangordon
09-29-2003, 10:54 AM
I'll be the voice of dissent here. I've had a number of Kramer products over the years. In my view, they are good, but they are not great. The normally fit the gun well, but not perfectly and they are not molded nearly as well as some others.

Mitch Rosen makes a great product but I quit dealing with him quite some time back because I got tired of having my credit card charged when I place the order and not getting my order for six to eight months. maybe this policy or wait period has changed since I last ordered from him, but if not, suffice to say it is really annoying.

If you like the Rosen designs and work, try Josh Bulman (www.bulmangunleather.com (http://www.bulmangunleather.com)). I understand that Josh used to be Rosen's chief holster maker until the two split up. He has many of the same designs, the wait is a fraction of the wait for a Rosen product and you don't get charged until he makes your order.

I have also had great experience with Matt DelFatti (www.delfatti.com (http://www.delfatti.com)) who does truly first rate work and has some good designs.

Depending (doesn't it always) on your build and preference, I think Milt Sparks probably makes as good an IWB holster as you can find anywhere and has several models to choose from.

Finally, Comp-tac does some really incredible plastic (OK, Kydex) holsters at reasonable prices. I am using his Gurkha IWB and can say it is as comfortable and stable an IWB as I've ever worn, is cheaper than most of the quality leather designs available, and draws faster than any leather holster that I've ever used. To make it even better, it only takes a few days to get one.

A few other thoughts. Make sure you have a good, sturdy belt, especially if you are wearing the holster with a dress belt that is 1.25 inches wide or less (and I would not recommend less). Make sure the belt slots or loops on the holster are cut to the same width as the belt you wear. .25 inches to big here makes a lot of difference in how stable the holster is. It is really irritating to have one that moves around all the time. If you wear different sized belts get holsters to fit each or get an IWB holster with interchangable belt loops (Sparks does this, not sure about others).

Now, if I could just find a way to get rid of this trunk full of "tried and didn't like" holsters that I have sitting in the basement...

SMDS141
09-29-2003, 01:44 PM
I'll be the voice of dissent here. I've had a number of Kramer products over the years. In my view, they are good, but they are not great. The normally fit the gun well, but not perfectly and they are not molded nearly as well as some others.

Mitch Rosen makes a great product but I quit dealing with him quite some time back because I got tired of having my credit card charged when I place the order and not getting my order for six to eight months. maybe this policy or wait period has changed since I last ordered from him, but if not, suffice to say it is really annoying.

If you like the Rosen designs and work, try Josh Bulman (www.bulmangunleather.com (http://www.bulmangunleather.com)). I understand that Josh used to be Rosen's chief holster maker until the two split up. He has many of the same designs, the wait is a fraction of the wait for a Rosen product and you don't get charged until he makes your order.
-------------------------------------

Depending (doesn't it always) on your build and preference, I think Milt Sparks probably makes as good an IWB holster as you can find anywhere and has several models to choose from.
-----------------------------------------
A few other thoughts. Make sure you have a good, sturdy belt, especially if you are wearing the holster with a dress belt that is 1.25 inches wide or less (and I would not recommend less). Make sure the belt slots or loops on the holster are cut to the same width as the belt you wear. .25 inches to big here makes a lot of difference in how stable the holster is. It is really irritating to have one that moves around all the time. If you wear different sized belts get holsters to fit each or get an IWB holster with interchangable belt loops (Sparks does this, not sure about others).

Now, if I could just find a way to get rid of this trunk full of "tried and didn't like" holsters that I have sitting in the basement...
Well, Kramer cannot please everyone or there would be no need for other holster makers. The only holster they've made me that didn't fit like a glove was my pocket holster, and I believe that was by design so I didn't have to fight the holster for the gun inside my pocket. Their IWB's are also adjustable for belt width.
You make some good points about belts. Basically, if you can crush/pinch the leather of your belt from top to bottom, the leather is way too weak. I saw a site recently where the belts were made with a curve in the middle. All my belts seem to do this over time because of the way the human body is made. Seems like you'd get a lot more comfortable fit. Now if I could only remember which site that was.
I own a Mitch Rosen ankle holster which I wear almost daily (for the last 6-8 years) and while I like the design, the holster was not made quite long enough for the modification S&W made to the 640 when they made it the 640-1 in .357. Not to mention the elastic material that goes around your ankle is not standing the test of time and the fact I had to have more velcro added after purchase as it was positioned in such a way that I would need gargantuan ankles. I do like the elastic snap over the trigger gaurd as there is not hammer on the 640. I the foot pursuits I've been in I have never had the gun come lose or been worried about losing the holster.

adriangordon
09-29-2003, 02:02 PM
Now if I could only remember which site that was.

www.miltsparks.com (http://www.miltsparks.com)

Orive 8
10-04-2003, 02:01 PM
I've been using Kramer Holsters since 1989. I have carried different guns in Kramer holsters on a daily basis, to include working in a plain clothes LEO assignment for two years.

Kramer's stuff is the best. My wife, also a Firearms Instructor, has used Kramer holsters since 1989 and finds his holsters to be the best.

We still have some of the holsters that we first purchased in 1989 and they are in the same excellent condition.

You can't go wrong using his products.

SMDS141
10-04-2003, 07:02 PM
I've been using Kramer Holsters since 1989. I have carried different guns in Kramer holsters on a daily basis, to include working in a plain clothes LEO assignment for two years.

Kramer's stuff is the best. My wife, also a Firearms Instructor, has used Kramer holsters since 1989 and finds his holsters to be the best.

We still have some of the holsters that we first purchased in 1989 and they are in the same excellent condition.

You can't go wrong using his products.
Here, here. Let's hear it for horse hide and Kramer's artisans.