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View Full Version : Tactics at a tailgate party...dos and dont's



Cold War Scout
09-05-2004, 01:15 PM
Am interested in thoughts on this one.
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Two men fatally shot before college football game

RALEIGH, North Carolina (AP) -- Two brothers were arrested in the shooting deaths of two young men at a tailgate party before a college football game, authorities said.

Witnesses said a fistfight preceded the shootings Saturday evening.

The victims, identified as Kevin M. McCann, 23, of Chicago, and Marine 2nd Lt. Brett Johnson Harman, 23, of Park Ridge, Illinois, were tailgating before North Carolina State University's season-opening football game against Richmond. Neither was a student at the university.

Tony Harrell Johnson, 20, of Raleigh, and his brother, Timothy Wayne Johnson, 22, an NCSU student, were arrested a short time later and charged with two counts of first-degree murder, said sheriff's department spokeswoman Phyllis Stephens.

A first appearance hearing for Timothy Johnson was scheduled for Tuesday, Stephens said. Information about Tony Johnson's first hearing was not immediately available.

Because of the Labor Day holiday, their earliest court date would be Tuesday.

A witness, Brian Smith, 31, said the victims had been tossing a football when a car drove recklessly in a parking lot packed with football fans. He said the men pulled the blond-haired driver from his car and beat him, pushing his head into the dirt.

The blond man left in his car, shouting curses and threatening revenge, Smith said. He returned later and asked Smith where to find the men who had beaten him, saying he had "a .38 Smith & Wesson for them."

Smith, who said the man appeared intoxicated, pointed in the direction of the victims and heard gunshots a short time later.

Smith ran to the shooting scene and found one victim wounded in the face, the other in the upper torso.

"My reaction is that I got two guys killed," Smith said.

The second suspect drove the gunman from the scene, Smith said.

Witness Jason Seaton, 32, said he was standing less than 30 feet away when he saw two young men get out of a car and walk up to a small group of tailgaters.

Seaton said he then saw a puff of smoke and heard what he thought sounded like a series of bottle-rockets.

"I saw the two guys, and they weren't sprinting out of there," he said. "They were all nonchalant jogging out of there."

Seaton said he found the two victims on the ground and used two of his shirts to try to stop the bleeding. But it was too late for one of them.

"I saw him gasp three times, and he was dead," Seaton said. "When I get out of here, when nobody's looking, I'm gonna cry about this."

The second victim died at a hospital.

Steve Camp
09-05-2004, 01:33 PM
Here are my initial thoughts, responses, questions:

When the story stated that the two victims "beat" the blonde-haired driver (for driving recklessly in the crowded parking lot)... to what extent did they beat the driver? Doesn't sound like they seriously messed him up. It sounds more like they pulled him from the vehicle, and drove him into the ground, rubbing his face in the dirt while probably encouraging him to drive more carefully in the parking lot...
If you are going to pull someone from his car for almost killing people...

Don't let him go. Call the authorities and hand him over for arrest.
If you do let him go... make sure you are armed in case he comes back
If you are armed, or have firearms in your vehicle for your protection... DON'T be drinking. (There is no note in the story of the victims having been drinking... I'm just saying that if you are going to be pulling people out of vehicles... you should be armed or someone else should be pulling armed security, and the armed people should NOT be drinking.)
Don't pull someone out of a car, but DO make sure you report the driver to the authorities: request a patrol car, give a description, state you want to press charges of attempted murder, or attempted involuntary manslaughter or something.

You MUST NOT REMAIN IN WHITE. ANYWHERE. ANYTIME. When you see the dude you yanked out of his car approaching sometime later with one or more friends... you OUGHTA be in bright ORANGE IF NOT bright RED.


Even if you are not armed... if you see the stoopid driver returning with friends... if you are alert... you should be able to escape and evade...

WTF was that guy Smith thinking? Did the shooter mention that he had a ".38 Smith & Wesson for them" before Smith pointed out where they were? Smith was not responsible for pulling the trigger, but his response does not read like the brightest one out there either.