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bosco w.
02-28-2008, 05:22 AM
Hi Folks,
This looks to be the forum for AR-related posts.

In short, I have an Eagle Arms/Armalite AR-10. It seems to me an excellent pointing weapon and VERY accurate. Problem is it malfunctions about every 20-30 rounds - and these are not easy malfs to clear - half the time we are talking about a double feed, the other half the time, we are talking a nasty double-feed/stove pipe mess that requires I snatch the stuck case out of the ejection port even with a locked back bolt.

Anyway, I am beginning to understand why I got such a great deal on this thing (heh). Anyone have experience with these rifles and know of a fix? I've heard the gas system and/or the proprietary mags are the issue - ?

Ammo I was running thru the thing while I had the problems was good surplus ammo and some of my handloads. I have also heard that these rifles require some break in (yeah, I'll break it soon alright ;-} ) - recently attended a rifle course and ran about 500 rounds thru it. I also tried break free on the bolt and cleaning the bolt although I have yet to find some time to pull the bolt apart.

Any insight into this problem would be appreciated.

TIA.

GTC-554
02-28-2008, 07:19 AM
When I had problems with my AR10 I sent it to Armilite. It works perfectly now.

sjc3081
02-28-2008, 07:50 AM
I wasted 800 rounds of great surplus trying to break in my AR10. Same problem as you. I sold that POS and never looked back.

Section1_Operations
02-28-2008, 09:32 AM
Either sell them off once they get back from Armalite or see if ADOC will correct the reliability issues as they have a good track record with the platform.

mpasanen
02-28-2008, 12:01 PM
Mine (a4 spr 20") has run fine with new gen. Armalite mags.
First gen. mags were POS. Had three and two of them gave
constant malfunctions. Thats like with mousegun AR's, get
the best mags and 95% of the issues dissappear. Armalite has sale
on newest gen. mags, check their website...

bosco w.
02-28-2008, 02:46 PM
Indeed - I have been checking the Armalite website and talking to their tech support - the mags I have ARE Gen 1 - they are recommending Gen II.

Meanwhile, those of you that have AR-10s, have you found the rifle likes a heavier projectile - like 165/168 grains? This is the other recommendation as the surplus portugese ammo I was running most of the time is most likely 147 grain.

Missed the acronym there 'Spec Ops' - ADOC?

I would really like to fix the malf issues as the only other thing I feel the rifle needs is a Hogue pistol grip. Accuracy is superb.

BTW: Armalite is telling me that this rifle was 'born' about 3/04 and needs a $16 bolt release to use the new mags too.

I am warey of spending more $ on a rlfle that is not functioning properly though.

Section1_Operations
02-28-2008, 03:51 PM
Missed the acronym there 'Spec Ops' - ADOC?


Northeastern OH based firearms dealer & custom shop that specialize in the AR15/AR10.



I would really like to fix the malf issues as the only other thing I feel the rifle needs is a Hogue pistol grip. Accuracy is superb.

BTW: Armalite is telling me that this rifle was 'born' about 3/04 and needs a $16 bolt release to use the new mags too.

I am warey of spending more $ on a rlfle that is not functioning properly though.


Here's the deal, Armalite needs to repair the rifle and update it to current specs, and shipping is the only thing that is reasonable to ask you to foot in the bill. Additionally, they should swap your GenI magazines for the latest Gen. as part of a (1) time correction to make their rifle function as it should have in the first place from the factory out of the box. If there’re unwilling to correct their P.O.S. product item tell them where they can stick it as there’re enough companies out there that would simple tell you to box it up and send it in – they’ll make it right.

Either the company and product stand on their own, or they blow smoke asking people to stupidly spend more with them.:mad:

Topmaul
02-28-2008, 04:53 PM
I am more an AK guy than an AR guy so take this for what it's worth I would try new mags before I sent it off or anything else. Double feed does not sound like there is anything wrong with the gun it sounds like a mag issue.

How many mags do you have and does it malf with all the mags? If so maybe try another brand of mag.

Section1_Operations
02-28-2008, 06:36 PM
I am more an AK guy than an AR guy so take this for what it's worth I would try new mags before I sent it off or anything else. Double feed does not sound like there is anything wrong with the gun it sounds like a mag issue.

How many mags do you have and does it malf with all the mags? If so maybe try another brand of mag.


You might have missed it...

The AR10 has a new GenII (?) magazine that requires a modified bolt hold open for proper functioning -- the rifle needs to be corrected at the factory on both issues.

glock21guy
02-28-2008, 09:00 PM
I had the same problem with my used 10. Talked with the support forks, and they sent me a new extractor spring but it did not help much.

The next step was to send it back to Armalite. After getting it back I have had no problems. Less than two weeks turnaround.

If your rifle is in stock from, i.e. has not been altered they will cover the repair under warranty. I did not know this when I send it back. I cost me $130 but it is working just fine.

Warranty page. http://www.armalite.com/Categories.aspx?Category=9e7fe07c-588d-4bc1-b7d1-69594117d2ab

mpasanen
02-28-2008, 10:35 PM
I would like to recommend, order the new mags while the sale is on and
while you can. New gen. mags work with your ar10, the bolt just will not
lock back but it goes bang. Armalites has constatly modified the rifle
to make it "better".

Armalites budget brand (eagle arms) has
non crome lined barrels/chambers and that may give some issues.



"BTW: Armalite is telling me that this rifle was 'born' about 3/04 and needs a $16 bolt release to use the new mags too."

Topmaul
02-29-2008, 07:45 AM
You might have missed it...

The AR10 has a new GenII (?) magazine that requires a modified bolt hold open for proper functioning -- the rifle needs to be corrected at the factory on both issues.

Sorry I missed that, should have read it closer, sorry.

bosco w.
03-04-2008, 08:36 AM
Thanks for the info folks. I have a plan and will post to the group on what I find after the rifle is modified (fixed). If the updates do not solve the problem, I'll simply sell the rifle and look for something else. I have a bolt lock and mag conversion OTW.

cb (Bosco w.)

mpasanen
03-07-2008, 10:50 AM
"Meanwhile, those of you that have AR-10s, have you found the rifle likes a heavier projectile - like 165/168 grains?"

My ar-10(rt. 1:11.25"/20" br.) is very accurate <=1moa with lapua 167gr scenar bullets.
Use VihtaVuori N140/150 powders for reloads. Lighter 155gr scenar is not so accurate(=1moa) but will not lose stability until >1000m. 167gr scenar
bullet is great up to 700-800 meters. Got some .30 185gr scenars but
have not tried them yet.

bosco w.
03-16-2008, 08:15 AM
Update:

Converted Gen 1 Mag to Gen 2 mag - still having malfunctions.
Here is a pic of the typical malf - hopefully, the attachment uploaded.
Friend of mine wants to give it one more try and thinks it the extractor at this point. Makes some sense with what I have heard. If this doesn't fix it, the rifle is going bye-bye.

Again, thanks for your help. cb

bosco w.
03-16-2008, 08:24 AM
One additional thing (for the curious):

So what we think is happening is that the extractor is sliding off the case rim and thereby leaving the fired case in the action - bolt goes back far enough that it strips the next round off the magazine only to run it together with the fired case - resulting in both fired case and next live round contending for the chamber. Nasty.

cb

Pokeguyjai
03-16-2008, 09:11 AM
Regardless of what it is, if its unacceptable (IMO) that your weapon is still jamming after that much time and effort has been put into fixing your weapon.

I would definitely call Armalite demanding some kind of compensation/refund for your troubles if the extractor fix does not work.

Best of luck.

bosco w.
03-24-2008, 06:12 PM
I hear you Pokeguyjai. If it was up to me, I think this thing would be history but seeing as I got a great deal on this rifle (paid less than 1/2 list w/only 60 round thru it) and have a Bud that likes to fix things....I'm employing the 3 strikes rule - one more strike and its out. BTW: Armalite did send me the upgrade parts for the extractor at no charge - not that they would have cost that much but I didn't pay shipping either. I'm hoping to replace the extractor bits and test fire this Friday.

will know more then. cb

Frank Pinelander
03-24-2008, 07:19 PM
I didn't see this mentioned in previous posts: what ammo caliber? .308 or 7.62? What is the rifle chambered for? A friend has an AR10 in .308. It will shoot .308 all day long. Won't shoot 7.62.

Yes, the chambers are different.

Rummy
03-24-2008, 07:38 PM
I'm employing the 3 strikes rule - one more strike and its out.


tell that to the ZOMBIES!!! :eek:




in all seriousness, i'd REALLY chew on what SectionOps had to say about them standing behind their products. close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades...in precision, CNC milled steel? not so much.
the more your buddy toys with it, the more the chances are that they'll deny your request for repair due to obvious tool marks indicative of of an amateur gunsmithing. hedge your bets, he'll still like you after the fact.




::subliminalAKsubliminal::

RazorCityRifleman
03-25-2008, 03:54 AM
I had an AR10 in 93" it was hit and miss with modified M14 mags being the main culprit I'm sure, with other little design problems contributing, I ended up getting rid of it.

I've now got a current production AR10 SPR, it has a standard profile, chrome lined barrel/chamber, threaded muzzle, flat top reciever, A2 furniture. All the current upgrades, "M4" cut, Gen II mags.

It runs like a top, shoots Nato spec ball just fine, most right around MOA, it hasn't malfuctioned in the 340 rounds I've shot it since the cleaning and lubing I gave it when I first bought it. I've ran South African, Cavin, M80 and Hietenburger ball though mine. The more I shoot it the more accurate/consistent it seems to get. I'm not sure if it's me getting a feel for the weapon or it's just breaking in. I did nothing special for break-in.

IMO no other 7.62 semi-auto scopes or handles as well and I've rung out nearly all of them. If you resonate with AR's you will probably like it when you get it sorted out.

I personaly would just send it back and insist all the upgrades be installed, remembering you catch more bee's with honey than vineger :D

Den

Pokeguyjai
03-25-2008, 08:50 AM
Sorry guys, couldn't resist...

http://www.lwrifles.com/sabrr/SABR2.jpg

End of discussion! :D

RazorCityRifleman
03-25-2008, 09:58 AM
Sorry guys, couldn't resist...

http://www.lwrifles.com/sabrr/SABR2.jpg

End of discussion! :D

Oh maybe it is :D But you probably have a better chance of finding a lost bigfoot rumaging in your trash can than LWRC's in wide enough circulation to give it any kind of serious consideration.

Den

Pokeguyjai
03-25-2008, 12:39 PM
Well when the SABR does come out, they hopefully will be in their new facility and pumping them out like theres no tomorrow.

RazorCityRifleman
03-25-2008, 01:04 PM
Well when the SABR does come out, they hopefully will be in their new facility and pumping them out like theres no tomorrow.

That will be great I'm sure!

However I've been around this shooting thing long enough to have seen dozens of these next-best-things to know they don't just fall out of the sky :D

It takes time to sort anything out and this rifle will be like all the others in that reguard. Let's have this discusion again 5 or 10 years from now before you get too excited touting the LWRC's many advantages.

I do wish them well and like the hell out of the idea of AR type ergonomics and design coupled with a gas piston design. As well trying to bring a new combat weapon to market with the political climate we have in this country takes balls and deep pockets.

Den

Pokeguyjai
03-25-2008, 10:18 PM
That will be great I'm sure!

However I've been around this shooting thing long enough to have seen dozens of these next-best-things to know they don't just fall out of the sky :D

It takes time to sort anything out and this rifle will be like all the others in that reguard. Let's have this discusion again 5 or 10 years from now before you get too excited touting the LWRC's many advantages.

I do wish them well and like the hell out of the idea of AR type ergonomics and design coupled with a gas piston design. As well trying to bring a new combat weapon to market with the political climate we have in this country takes balls and deep pockets.

Den
Yes, we shall see! I'm very optimisitic though. :)

But thank you for the words of wisdom, I appreciate them very much.

Section1_Operations
03-26-2008, 03:11 PM
That will be great I'm sure!

However I've been around this shooting thing long enough to have seen dozens of these next-best-things to know they don't just fall out of the sky :D

It takes time to sort anything out and this rifle will be like all the others in that reguard. Let's have this discusion again 5 or 10 years from now before you get too excited touting the LWRC's many advantages.

I do wish them well and like the hell out of the idea of AR type ergonomics and design coupled with a gas piston design. As well trying to bring a new combat weapon to market with the political climate we have in this country takes balls and deep pockets.

Den


Had the SABR already been conceived when the SASS M110 was being solicited KAC would have lost outside the political clout.

With Matech now behind LWRC's production/facilities the issue of product availability and the incessant demand for the highest quality output is moot.

austin
03-26-2008, 03:27 PM
Had the SABR already been conceived when the SASS M110 was being solicited KAC would have lost outside the political clout.

With Matech now behind LWRC's production/facilities the issue of product availability and the incessant demand for the highest quality output is moot.

What he said!! +10000!

Section1_Operations
03-26-2008, 03:35 PM
What he said!! +10000!

Now, if it only had a folding stock...:cool:

Pokeguyjai
03-26-2008, 04:15 PM
Now, if it only had a folding stock...:cool:
I think Jesse mentioned something on LW forums about developing a folding stock for the M6A3?

I'm not too certain though.

Section1_Operations
03-26-2008, 08:49 PM
I think Jesse mentioned something on LW forums about developing a folding stock for the M6A3?

I'm not too certain though.


I've toyed with the idea of what it would entail and to accomplish the task the bar is high.

arrowrod
03-27-2008, 02:29 AM
AR10 Malfunction. I just bought a new mini-gun. Dillon is now selling these commercially.

And, I just purchase a MIG 17. So I can mount my minigun.

Oh, this is a "AR10 Malfunction" thread. Why didn't you say so.

As a toy, the AR10 is what it is. Armalite has no clue on how to fix it.
The extractor slips off the rim of the cartridge. Their "repair kit" consists of a heavier extractor spring with the plastic insert and a o-ring.

I shoot mine in 3-Gun matches. I always take the extractor out of the gun and scrub it to remove even a hint of dirt. I have also gone to Ace Hardware and gotten a thicker o-ring. I also case gauge every round I am going to use during a match. I do not have malfunctions with this regimen, but I would not take this gun into a situation...

The engineering solution is probably a extractor that grabs more of the rim,
but Armalite seems to be doing fine with smoke and mirrors.

Of course, they could have looked at the M14 extractor and just copied it.

RazorCityRifleman
03-27-2008, 09:12 AM
AR10 Malfunction. I just bought a new mini-gun. Dillon is now selling these commercially.

And, I just purchase a MIG 17. So I can mount my minigun.

Oh, this is a "AR10 Malfunction" thread. Why didn't you say so.

As a toy, the AR10 is what it is. Armalite has no clue on how to fix it.
The extractor slips off the rim of the cartridge. Their "repair kit" consists of a heavier extractor spring with the plastic insert and a o-ring.

I shoot mine in 3-Gun matches. I always take the extractor out of the gun and scrub it to remove even a hint of dirt. I have also gone to Ace Hardware and gotten a thicker o-ring. I also case gauge every round I am going to use during a match. I do not have malfunctions with this regimen, but I would not take this gun into a situation...

The engineering solution is probably a extractor that grabs more of the rim,
but Armalite seems to be doing fine with smoke and mirrors.

Of course, they could have looked at the M14 extractor and just copied it.

How many rounds do you go though before you have extractor drama?

I'm over 500 rounds (probably another 100 tonight :D) though a newish AR10 SPR with no cleaning or aditional lube from my initial tear down and lubing (Mobil 1) when I bought it. I've been running all my surplus "remnents" though it and will continue with no maint. till it chokes. The bolt face is pretty nasty right now with that green primer pocket sealer used on Cavin ball but it's still running fine.

Den

FSW Shawn
03-27-2008, 09:18 PM
Of course, they could have looked at the M14 extractor and just copied it.

That's funny

bosco w.
04-10-2008, 07:50 PM
OK Folks,

Finally got the new 'doughnut w/spring' bit for the extractor installed.
Noticable difference in the pressure it now takes to push the extractor back compared to the old one.
Ran 120 rounds of surplus ammo thru the thing w/o no malfunctions.

Also of note - tried both style magazines (new w/metal follower AND the old with plastic follower) - both worked fine.

Thanks for those of you that offered up helpful hints.

cb