Saiga Shotgun Availability

[Dr John Meade]

I went to a gun show today, and specifically noticed that there were NO 12 gauge Saiga shotguns for sale. Last time I went to this same show (several months ago), there were at least 6 on the tables. Today, I saw one .410 and one 20 gauge.

[SHIHAN]

I went to a gun show today, and specifically noticed that there were NO 12 gauge Saiga shotguns for sale. Last time I went to this same show (several months ago), there were at least 6 on the tables. Today, I saw one .410 and one 20 gauge.

If there were 6 unless they wanted mucho $ for them I bet they didnt last long!

[WadeP]

Last month, I talked to the guy at Russian American Armory who said he expects a shipment of 12's in March or April. I have an order for 10 in with my distributor. Dealer price jumped ~$40.

[blackmamba]

Here in Italy my armorer said not to expect anything before the end of February...dunno why exactly, but they stopped providing them since November 2007...anyway I've just booked one.
Hope it won't cost me much...but I fear the price won't be less than 1000-1200 euros, as it was before the stop...:mad:

[bassbones]

Here's the story I just got. I'm just repeating here....dont know if it's true or not.

Izmash is re-tooling its factory for some new stuff. The shipments just in and just now comming in will be the only ones until June. During this time there will be no probduction at all. After starup in June, the price will be much higher.

One retailer I'm in line at expects a bunch in one week (already in country and waiting to be cleared). THe other retailer has no idea when to expect them.

John

[Aqua_Velva_Man]

Russian American Armory who said he expects a shipment of 12's in March or April.
In January they said the shotguns would arrive in the US in February. The Russians give new meaning to "mañana."

There were a handful of Saiga-12s available on Gunbroker and Auction Arms last week in the ~$600-$650 range. I consider those prices gouging and refused to buy one. $500 is my personal max. Haven't seen anything besides .410s at gun shows for over six months.

[ME109]

Discount guns in kirkland has a few

[bae4]

No Saiga shotguns of any type at the Chantilly show.

[ME109]

That is Kirkland Washington... $499 for the s109

[CB3]

Demand for this shotgun is going up, and supply is inconsistent. Those that are available now are leftovers from previous shipments. Those who have arbitrarily set a maximum price to pay under the assumption that a new shipment will be at old prices will likely be disappointed. Even if the Russians have only raised wholesale prices a little, most retailers are aware of the increasing demand for the Saiga 12 and the limited supplies. That is an opportunity to earn some extra profit for their stores. Not unreasonable considering their typically low margins and the fears produced by the upcoming election.

Fifty to $100 bucks more than you think they are worth now may be a piddly amount of money for such a gun come November 5th. This may be a case where wait and see will be wait and wait and miss out. If nothing else, buying one now at the "inflated" price of $599 may be an opportunity to make a couple of hundred bucks a year from now by selling the same gun.

Magazine fed, AK-reliable shotguns are not generally available. While there are other good tube fed shotguns on the market that cost the same or $100 bucks less, the Saiga features and convertibility justify the expense, IMO.

I paid $550 for mine three months ago and was concerned that I got ripped compared to what some people were claiming they were able to buy them for. After getting extra mags and taxes it was $675 OTD. Today I look at it as a reasonable investment, even with additional costs looming to de-sporterize it. I don't care if someone else somewhere else got one for $50 or even $100 cheaper.

CB3

[jlbraun]

$485 in a gun shop for an unconverted one here.

[Aqua_Velva_Man]

And now for a public service message from the Professional Gun Retailers Association:


Those who have arbitrarily set a maximum price to pay under the assumption that a new shipment will be at old prices will likely be disappointed.
As the price approaches P1, demand drops to Q1.

http://i.investopedia.com/inv/tutorials/site/economics/economics3.gif

I believe the equilibrium price (B) for the Saiga lies around $350. I also believe there is more elasticity to the price of Saiga-12's than you would have us believe. The supply has been limited by a single-manufacturer monopoly. Market demand has risen in response to the limited supply; however, the market itself is limited. What percentage of the population really wants a Saiga? It remains an esoteric firearm even among connoisseurs. Most shooters still want their 870 and are not about to buy some "weird lookin' Russkie shotgun."

My prediction: a Saiga "bubble" with the price peaking to ~$700 (A) as the next shipment arrives, and then falling off before the elections. Unless, of course, dealers have enough working capital to stockpile Saigas and keep them off the market for an extended period. Then they run the risk that an Obama White House would outlaw Saigas entirely and their investment would be worthless. Despite McCain's lukewarm 2A record, the price will fall dramatically if the Republicans stay in the White House, possibly as low as ~$200 (C).

Several dealers I spoke to at a local gun show this past weekend had heard of Saigas but were afraid to order any because they did not know whether they would sell. They had no clue that Saigas were in demand ... by a small segment of the shooting population.

[jlbraun]

Most shooters still want their 870 and are not about to buy some "weird lookin' Russkie shotgun."

Until they see it rip off 10 rounds in 3 seconds, reload the same in 1.5 seconds, and cost less than a Benelli M3 or a SPAS-12.;)

[Gabe Suarez]

Most shooters still want their 870 and are not about to buy some "weird lookin' Russkie shotgun."

"Most Shooters" are carbon copies Zumbo and too lazy and fat to ever do anything other than salivate over what real men do with their fighting guns on cable TV.:eek:

"Most shooters" are not the market for the Saiga...or the AK for that matter.

I predict that unless the american people are stupid, and sell out their country so gfaggots can get married and have "free" healthcare, we will see the Saiga shotgun eclipse other shotgun systems here in country already.

[bae]

Until they see it rip off 10 rounds in 3 seconds...

What is the practical application of this feature?

[dtom29]

lots of lead in the air....:D ;)

[Aqua_Velva_Man]

"Most shooters" are not the market for the Saiga...or the AK for that matter.
Gabe, you just made my point. I have an otherwise-sensible friend -- and well-trained, skillful shooter -- who goes into vapor lock whenever he sees one of my AKs. "I wouldn't own one of those Communist rifles." If he does not get it, then there must be a whole bunch of Zumbos who miss the picture entirely.

Only a very small percentage of shooters really want a Saiga. The reason prices have shot up is that Izhmash shipped a very small number of them to the US to test the waters.

[jlbraun]

What is the practical application of this feature?

It's FUN! Do I need another reason? :D

[Gabe Suarez]

Most shooters don't buy AKs
Most shooters don't buy training DVDs
Most shooters don't attend classes
Most shooters don't buy stuff on the internet
Most shooters aren't interested in the true second ammendment

So does it matter if Most Shooters won't buy a Saiga? Hardly at all.

[Aqua_Velva_Man]

So does it matter if Most Shooters won't buy a Saiga? Hardly at all.
Only insofar as it affects supply and demand for Saiga shotguns.

[TennDECA]

Only insofar as it affects supply and demand for Saiga shotguns.

And thus, cost.

[CB3]

"My prediction: a Saiga "bubble" with the price peaking to ~$700 (A) as the next shipment arrives, and then falling off before the elections. Unless, of course, dealers have enough working capital to stockpile Saigas and keep them off the market for an extended period. Then they run the risk that an Obama White House would outlaw Saigas entirely and their investment would be worthless. Despite McCain's lukewarm 2A record, the price will fall dramatically if the Republicans stay in the White House, possibly as low as ~$200 (C)." Aqua Velva Man

My point is that the supply of Saiga shotguns will likely remain inconsistent, and perhaps not grow by large margins, while the demand will increase disproportionately, even if both segments represent small sectors of an overall market.

The demand for Saiga shotguns may never equal that for traditional shotguns, but that has no bearing.

Will the demand for Saigas increase more than the supply? It is happening now, and there is no reason to believe the imbalance will not continue. The only factors that would reduce prices in the supply/demand continuum are a corresponding increase in the numbers of Saiga shotguns imported, and/or an American manufacturer stepping up to make them (or something very similar). Desirable, rare items do not decrease in value, despite a generic supply/demand Investopedia chart. (Look at the charts for gold and silver since 2000--Kitco.com) Neither supply scenario is looming on the horizon, at least not within a 10-month time frame, assuming demand continues to increase.

This of course is all conjecture. Given the former assault weapons and hi-cap mag ban, the current ban on lead in bullets in California (certain areas) and potentially Arizona, and other threats, it is not unreasonable to assume hard times may lie ahead for availability of guns like the Saiga 12--no matter who gets in the White House and congress. Thus, buying what you want now may be wiser than waiting to see what might happen. Very rarely do prices on a combat weapon of good repute go down.

If some of you feel differently, so be it. Thank you for making more guns available for the rest of us who want to buy them soon, even at prices above "$200". No argument here. Only time will tell if one of us is more right than the other, but by then it may not matter, if it matters now.

CB3

[SHIHAN]

[quote=Aqua_Velva_Man]And now for a public service message from the Professional Gun Retailers Association:


As the price approaches P1, demand drops to Q1.

http://i.investopedia.com/inv/tutorials/site/economics/economics3.gif

I believe the equilibrium price (B) for the Saiga lies around $350. I also quote]

350.00 is less than dealer cost.

[Dr. Keith Seto]

350.00 is less than dealer cost.

Most definitely.

[Colombianito]

Guys we need to clone Tony Rumore or at least get him some crystal meth so he can pump out more Saigas quicker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Aqua_Velva_Man]

350.00 is less than dealer cost.
If $350 is below dealer cost (which may very well be true) then some middleman (RAA?) has included a big markup on the 12 gauge version. I see .410 gauge Saigas selling in the $225-$250 range currently, and I know manufacturing costs are not much, if any, higher for a 12 gauge.

[Gabe Suarez]

OK...let's see if this works -;)

Saiga 12s suck big time. They are the worst shotguns ever made and no self-respecting american would own any Russian Gun. If you want a shotgun, by golly, buy 'murican. get a Mossberg or a remington. they are 100 times the shotgun those commie pesky Saigas are.

...:cool:

...:cool:

...:cool:

...

Has the price dropped yet?

[zombie]

OK...let's see if this works -;)

Saiga 12s suck big time. They are the worst shotguns ever made and no self-respecting american would own any Russian Gun. If you want a shotgun, by golly, buy 'murican. get a Mossberg or a remington. they are 100 times the shotgun those commie pesky Saigas are.

...:cool:

...:cool:

...:cool:

...

Has the price dropped yet?


How about now?


I'm in the process if selling my 590 to buy a Saiga.


I have to say that Warrior Talk has certainly stimulated my interest in Ak platform weapons again...

[tradorion]

Confiscated some this past week- reckon i'd get in trouble if i mailed it to Tony?? :eek:

R

[Aqua_Velva_Man]

Keep it up, Gabe!

[gmorgan]

Confiscated some this past week- reckon i'd get in trouble if i mailed it to Tony?? :eek:

R

Not if your willing to wait 14 months or so i'm sure tony has a big closet :D

[SHIHAN]

If $350 is below dealer cost (which may very well be true) then some middleman (RAA?) has included a big markup on the 12 gauge version. I see .410 gauge Saigas selling in the $225-$250 range currently, and I know manufacturing costs are not much, if any, higher for a 12 gauge.

No if's 350.00 is below dealer cost for a S-12. The different Saiga rifles and shotguns price is caliber specific.

[red-it]

FWIW
There will be 10 s-12's available Friday in Northern Virginia.
I'll know prices in the am.

[Tom Cornelius]

Gilbert's Gunshop has them in stock at this moment. $480.00 + shipping

As of 5pm. EST. 1-877-937-4867

[TennDECA]

Tom,

The Saiga 12's that Gilbert's got in stock yesterday are all spoken for via the waiting list that Gilbert's has. Luckily, I'm on the list and my S12 is on its way to me right now :D

[Tom Cornelius]

Perhaps they have a few more... I ordered mine today @ 4:30pm today.

They do go fast!!!

[bassbones]

I'm on that list too.......I'll call in the A.M.

I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl.


John

[Joseph Timbs]

CDNN has them listed in their catalog, I forget the price tag .

[red-it]

FWIW
There will be 10 s-12's available Friday in Northern Virginia.
I'll know prices in the am.

$500.00 and $540.00 (sights)

[choirboy]

I paid $500 (499.99) for my long barrel about a month ago. It was the only in stock ready to ship gun I found. My FFL got it at Gilberts as I recall.

Choirboy

[MJh]

I bought my S-12 from Gilbert's a few months ago. If they have a good idea when the next shipment is coming in, then put your name on the waiting list. I don't regret my purchase one bit.

[bassbones]

turns out my wife got the call and forgot to tell me........(DOH!).
Had an ice storm today......will have to try Friday. I hope they hold it for me for a few days.

John

[TennDECA]

I hope so for you too, bass. What they told me when I put my name on the list was that there were more names than guns coming. Luckily, I called early Monday morning, just as they were unpacking the S12 shipment :D .

Hope wifey's goof doesn't get you passed up :eek:

[red-it]

I've got two on hold
PM me if anyone wants one

[Tactical Trainer]

I would be interested in one. Can you provide me with more details?

Thanks,

Richard

[red-it]

as of five I clock today there are five left
model 108 &109's
pm me and I will put you in touch with them
I got mine and they are sweet