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View Full Version : "Go about your normal routines (but expect someone to try to kill ya')"



Lou Costello
08-02-2004, 08:28 AM
Well, here we are in Northern NJ and NYC sitting in Code Orange. Seems the government types are upset, sweating bullets. Reading between the lines of Mayor Blumberg's speech it appears that authorities are looking for truck bombers, car bombers, and backpack suicide bombers in the NJ-NYC-DC area.

The authorities say we should keep to our normal routines. Unsaid is that someone is out there right now trying to kill us.

I talked to my daughter last night. Lives across from the city. We reviewed plans to get her if need be. I haven't yet seen any tricked out SUV short of an M1 Abrams that can get thru gridlocked city traffic. Yet my sport motorcycle can run up and down stairways, along narrow sidewalks and even across railroad and foot bridges if need be. Got to get her one.

A friend's son is a LEO. I remember talking to him immediately after someone tried to kill him. He was a rookie cop in shock. But he learned from the experience. He too has plans.

Be prepared and be safe out there.

mk86fcc
08-02-2004, 09:15 AM
And yet... and yet, if asked why I carry and I reply, "Just in case," or words to that effect I'm looked at like some sort of kook. :confused:

OdieWon
08-02-2004, 09:48 AM
It's an entire lifestyle change. One that changes the way you look at the entire world around you.

When faced with physical danger, it seems that people move to one of two camps, the prepared folks, who choose self responsibility and to do battle with men of evil intent, and the victims, wearing their flip flops, window shopping with no idea what's going on around them.

Once they go over to the victim camp, rarely, and I stress the word RARELY do they ever come back.

Steve Camp
08-02-2004, 12:05 PM
Well, here we are in Northern NJ and NYC sitting in Code Orange. Seems the government types are upset, sweating bullets. Reading between the lines of Mayor Blumberg's speech it appears that authorities are looking for truck bombers, car bombers, and backpack suicide bombers in the NJ-NYC-DC area.


Obviously IEDs and other not-so-improvised EDs can be contained in backpacks... but since the tangos have supposedly carried out sophisticated reconnaissance and surveillance of these financial targets... I would expect them to use briefcases -- of the sort you see the Wallstreet types always carrying. I would also expect the homicide bomber to be sharply dressed, neatly groomed, and exhibiting good manners. They can either keep the briefcase and thus go to find that Allah is actually Satan, and the seventy-two virigins are actually Janet Reno clones trained in mutiliation and torture, or set the briefcase down someplace innocuous, and leave the immediate area. Claymore mines -- are they not pretty deadly? If the tangos want to create casualties and mass panic... half a dozen briefcase devices should be capable of creating quite a mess, as a single, suitable prepared, briefcase device should be a lot more effective than a single Claymore mine, as you can put a lot more stuff in a briefcase (it's a lot larger). Also, a chemical or biological attack would be particularly devastating from a psychological point of view.

That is to say... if the police and the rest of the security apparatus are geared up to look for a truck or car bomb... and the tangos know this... then I would be worried that the attack will come along a different vector.

In the rest of the world (well, especially Eastern Europe, but more generally the middle east, and third world), tangos have access to a pretty ready supply of plastique (probably Eastern Block supplied Semtex, althought I suppose C4 may be pretty prevalent too...)... so it is not too hard to create bomb vests, backpack bombs, or just load up a mini-van with 2000lbs of Semtex. Just look at the Palestinian homicide bombers. Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan provide plenty of recent examples of car bombs.

Question: Just how hard is it to obtain explosives here in the USA? I'm not asking, "Gee... how do I obtain explosives?" I'm asking, should I be worried that explosives are also readily available to the tangos here in the CONUS?

If the tangos can put foreigners through flight schools... I don't see why they could not already have created shell construction companies, or even legitimate construction companies through which they may have already obtained explosives legally. I personally doubt they are trying to smuggle explosives in to the USA -- it seems too hard. But I do not entirely discount the possibility.

I have seen a story in the press recently where some gov't official comments the terrorists are very dangerous people, highly trained in explosives, even creating explosives from everyday household chemicals. Now, I've come across the Anarchist's Cookbook too... but I thought these home-brew methods of explosive creation is rather dangerous, fraught with peril and risk of blowing oneself up.

Question: Can one really create explosives (RD-X or plastique or whatever) from ordinary household chemicals? Is it easy or hard? Is it fraught with danger, or relatively safe?

If tangos actually can create home-made plastique relatively quickly, easily, and in quantity with inocuous household supplies... I think that changes my entire opinion on whether or not we see a rash of homicide bombings (even if they are not carried out by a suicide bomber) here in the CONUS.

B0486
08-02-2004, 12:30 PM
A common hardware store product, cooked to crystaline form then becomes explosive and only needs detonation of some kind.

Stable until cryastaline form when cooked in a conventional oven. Add a common detonator and you have what the Russians used for years as their primary explosive formulas.

Please don't ask what the material is on the open forum here.

Robin Brown

Gecko
08-02-2004, 12:31 PM
Lou:

I admire the courage of those people who work in the targeted buildings/area for going to work today and for the next several weeks.

I thought the market would be way off today, but surprisingly its up a little right now. That's gotta drive the "rag heads" nuts. :)

Sadly going about about ones normal routine with the potential of danger lurking close by is going to be a fact of life for some for the foreseeable future, IMO

Sam Spade
08-02-2004, 12:48 PM
"Go about your normal routines (but expect someone to try to kill ya')"

And this is different from any other day, how?

michael
08-02-2004, 03:46 PM
Explosives are easily made from common items and they can be as effective as the real thing. Reference the Oklahoma City bombing and the World Trade Center bombing. These are two examples and the same mix was used, but there are many others.

Steve Camp
08-02-2004, 03:56 PM
Explosives are easily made from common items and they can be as effective as the real thing. Reference the Oklahoma City bombing and the World Trade Center bombing. These are two examples and the same mix was used, but there are many others.

The WTC bombing was AMFO? I did not know that.

Steve Collins
08-02-2004, 06:18 PM
Unfortunately, in the post 9/11 world, this is the way it's going to be for the forseeable future. For most of us, it's just the way we do business, and the best we can do is try to take care of our own. Believe me, trying to save the world isn't worth losing that which is closest to you.

Lou Costello
08-03-2004, 09:28 AM
The first batch of explosives was made up by a Rutgers University chemical engineering graduate who worked for Allied-Signal Corp. I believe he used a AMFO mix with some extra additives. Mixed it up in rental garage in Jersey City, put it into a van and then drove it to the WTC underground parking garage. Blew up killing 6.

Update: now they tell us the info for the Orange Alert is 3-4 years old. Found on some guys PC in Afghanistan. The feds are looking at former employees of the targeted buildings, especially deliverymen and security personnel.

B0486
08-03-2004, 11:32 AM
Don't believe everything you read about the newest upgrade on alerts for the financial districts.

On very good sources, there was a physical incident this weekend which prompted the alert upgrade though I can not elaborate at this time as to specifics other than "they touched us but there was no damage".

The gov types are keeping this very low keyed, doubt we'll see the true nature of the alert for many years.

Robin Brown

Lou Costello
08-03-2004, 12:57 PM
Well, I hope they give us something specific soon. This "Cry Wolf" is getting tiresome. People are becoming cynical.

B0486
08-03-2004, 02:48 PM
Lou,

sent a pm to you

Brownie

jacketch
08-04-2004, 03:38 AM
When faced with physical danger, it seems that people move to one of two camps, the prepared folks, who choose self responsibility and to do battle with men of evil intent, and the victims, wearing their flip flops, window shopping with no idea what's going on around them.

There seem to be lots and lots of folks in flip flops. :rolleyes:

kildak
08-19-2004, 06:59 AM
There seem to be lots and lots of folks in flip flops. :rolleyes:

Funny you should mention that. I've paid more attention to my footwear these days as I may be humpin it back to the homestead should the balloon go up.

nightowl
08-19-2004, 11:56 PM
steve2267 actually a Algerian terrorist did attempt to get into the US via Victoria BC to Port Angles Dec 14, 1999
On Tuesday, December 14, 1999, Ressam was arrested during a routine vehicle inspection after driving off the ferry at its arrival at Port Angeles, Washington. The ferry had arrived from Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. Ressam was held after U.S. customs officials, trained in looking for hiding places in vehicles were alerted by something in Ressam's behavior and a fit perhaps also a fit to terrorist profiles used by all customs officials. The inspectors found what they thought was nitro-glycerin and other bomb making materials in the trunk of the car. The materials included some 150 pounds of bomb making goods including timing devices, in what experts say are quantities and types to make some very large explosions, certainly able to take down a mid-sized metropolitan building -- similar in strength but different in types than that used to destroy U.S. Federal building in Oklahoma City. What the inspectors thought might be nitro-glycerin was reported to be contained in two 22 ounce bottles and the other materials included about 100 pounds or more of urea and detonating devices. Later, testing chilled even the hardened investigators as the material in the bottles turned out to be RDX, an even more powerful explosive material used in the manufacturer of a particularly nasty plastic explosive called SEMTEX.

Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers honored the four U.S. Customs Service inspectors on December 19 for their discovery of the materials. “These men and woman are true heroes” the Seattle Post Intelligence quoted the Secretary at the Ronald Reagan building in Seattle. Cited for heroism were Diana M. Dean the officer who first began the series of events leading to the arrest, Senior Inspector Mike Johnson, Inspector Carmon D. Clem and Inspector Mike Chapmen.

An interesting note to this drama is the fact that Ressam was arrested and held for several weeks for theft of computer laptops and cell phones last year in Montreal. The M.O. for that particular crime were break-ins to cars in the financial and technological areas of the city where police say such “finds” are easier for would-be thieves. This led government officials recently to look at links to such crimes and the equipment’s uses for terrorist activities. Monteral police say that Mourad Gherabli, 40, may be the ring leader of a group of displaced Algerians preying on the affluent of Monteral stealing the goods to finance Islamic terrorist groups around the world.

Perhaps it was this connection and the suspects reaction as Customs Officer Diana M. Dean asked the driver to step out of the vehicle. According to the Washington Post article 1 Dean was quoted as saying “Everything happened real fast after that...". The suspect Ressam fled on foot leading to a six block chase until finally he was subdued in an intersection. The chase was was triggered when inspectors found a false lid in the trunk of the vehicle, and suspicious packages which in turn led to a pat-down search of the suspect.

As a result of the arrest, the U.S. Customs Commissioner has added some 300 employees to relatively remote border crossing stations, however, it is up to Congress to vote in more funds to permanently pay for increased border security. The Washington Post article also states that there are some 7,000 inspectors in 301 ports of entry, and these few handle about 460 million travelers each year.

Now we begin a chronology of the events that followed rather rapidly as the investigation began to move from this small group of Algerian agents and their smuggler contacts:
http://www.milnet.com/y2kbomb/y2kbomb.htm