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View Full Version : Beretta Storm for Personal Defense???



DHart
07-30-2004, 02:28 AM
Beretta Storm anyone? I'm thinking as a personal defense longarm for the average joe who also has pistols in either .45, .40, or 9mm.

I have pistols in those three calibers and was thinking about buying a Storm to have as a personal defense longarm (besides my Mossy 500). I was leaning toward .40 for capacity with reasonable effectiveness, with .45 ACP as my second choice, due to lower capacity. My pistols are 1911's in .45 ACP and Browning Hi-Powers in .40.

Any thoughts on this rifle for defense purposes? What about for combat-style competition use? Which caliber would you go for and why?

Gecko
07-30-2004, 04:07 AM
Personally a long gun in a pistol caliber has never made much sense to me though I do realize that there may be a limited role for them in some types of Ops in urban areas. OMMV! If I'm not mistaken, I believe that with a couple of exceptions Federal agencies and all the military have now turned away from them. Other than the logistics and limited ranges what would be the advantages?

When I did/do carry a long gun its a pre-ban AR (M4gery) with a 14" bbl, registered SBR. However, most of my previous work was in non-urban, rather wide open desert terrain, with some limited forested areas thrown in.

combat effective
07-30-2004, 05:13 AM
I'm actually a big fan of the pistol caliber carbines although I completely understand the logic of the arguments against them. I also use such a carbine with the thought that it is just a long barreled pistol.

I have a Ruger PC9 along with a KP95DC. They use the same mags. The carbine has a butt cuff that holds 2 mags. I like the mag compatability. It's also a longarm that my wife can handle and it is very similar to her 10/22. The recoil is very light, and it is very accurate. You mentioned that you have 1911s. I believe the Marlin Camp rifle in .45ACP uses 1911 mags.

I don't know much in particular about the Storm, but if I had one I would want the matching Beretta pistol so I could use the same mags in each.

combat effective
07-31-2004, 05:45 AM
Guns&Ammo TV did a short bit on the Storm last night. The charge handle can be switched from side to side as ca the ejection.

It also has two rail attachment points on the forend for lights or lasers. The lack such a rail is the one thing I don't like about the Ruger PCs.

I almost want a 92 and a Storm now.

Low Drag
07-31-2004, 06:54 PM
I like the carbine idea for urban or heavy foliage environments where your long shot would be 100yds.

However, it I would prefer only the more powerful rounds like 10mm, .357mag/.44mag.

kmussack
08-01-2004, 05:38 AM
We all know and love people who are not attuned to the shooting sports and are especially outside of the defensive shooting community. These same people after some sort of disturbing experience sometimes ask us advice about defensive weapons choices.

A close and longtime friend lives alone in a rural setting and was frightened to learn that there had been a series of home invasions/burglaries in her area. She asked me for advice. My first thought was a M870 shotgun with #1 buckshot. Then I realized that was not the best weapon for a 115 lb. female with almost no shooting experience.

The storm fit the bill for a few reasons. First off the size and ergonomics of the weapon were a perfect fit to someone of smaller stature. Second the weapon is simple to operate and has a provision for a flashlight attachment which will allow her to identify her target in the dark. Third the report and recoil are very mild making practice shooting a fun experience for someone not particularly used to shooting. Fourth, the 9mm version with the Beretta magazine provision will accept extra high capacity magazines giving the little rifle plenty of firepower. Fifth, the Storm is not a pistol and doesnít require the expensive year-long pistol permit process in this state. Finally the 9mm version is inexpensive to practice with using surplus ball ammunition and allows the use of steel targets that give immediate training feedback.

Is a 9mm carbine the most powerful weapon available? No. Sometimes the best choice isnít the most powerful weapon but the one that is most likely to be used with some level of accuracy and confidence.

My friend can now swing all six paddles of a dueling tree to one side in about as many seconds from a distance of fifteen yards. Thatíll do.

combat effective
08-01-2004, 03:18 PM
We all know and love people who are not attuned to the shooting sports and are especially outside of the defensive shooting community. These same people after some sort of disturbing experience sometimes ask us advice about defensive weapons choices.

A close and longtime friend lives alone in a rural setting and was frightened to learn that there had been a series of home invasions/burglaries in her area. She asked me for advice. My first thought was a M870 shotgun with #1 buckshot. Then I realized that was not the best weapon for a 115 lb. female with almost no shooting experience.

The storm fit the bill for a few reasons. First off the size and ergonomics of the weapon were a perfect fit to someone of smaller stature. Second the weapon is simple to operate and has a provision for a flashlight attachment which will allow her to identify her target in the dark. Third the report and recoil are very mild making practice shooting a fun experience for someone not particularly used to shooting. Fourth, the 9mm version with the Beretta magazine provision will accept extra high capacity magazines giving the little rifle plenty of firepower. Fifth, the Storm is not a pistol and doesnít require the expensive year-long pistol permit process in this state. Finally the 9mm version is inexpensive to practice with using surplus ball ammunition and allows the use of steel targets that give immediate training feedback.

Is a 9mm carbine the most powerful weapon available? No. Sometimes the best choice isnít the most powerful weapon but the one that is most likely to be used with some level of accuracy and confidence.

My friend can now swing all six paddles of a dueling tree to one side in about as many seconds from a distance of fifteen yards. Thatíll do.


Great post. My belief is that most the weapon has to fit the person and the person's needs. That weapon may not be the ideal weapon in eyes of others, but if it suits the needs of the person using it then it is the correct choice of the person using it.

Deaf Smith
08-01-2004, 06:47 PM
The Storm...

I've owned several 9mm carbines. Some good, some not so good.

I've handled the Storm. Even thought about it.

Good points:

1) 9mm is dirt cheep. That means practice. You can become very good with that little rifle. You can use the +p+ heavier loads and get good results past 100 yards.

2) sights. Excellent sights. And if you want a scope are aimpoint or such, it is set up for it.

3) Beretta HC mags are still pretty easy to find. Plus if the AWB dies, get a bunch more.

4) The weapon is short. REAL short. VERY handy.

Bad points:

1) That cross bolt safety is mickey mouse. In fact, the slide release lever should be the safety! Why do they do things like that?

2) The spilt stock makes it kind of awkward to handle. Somewhat harder to sholder than a plain AR/FAL style stock.

3) The magazine release is hard to function with your grip on the gun. In fact, I just about could not even touch it with my thumb. Yes you can swap it across and then use your trigger finger, but since I don't do that with any other weapon, why would I want to add another level of training just for that one weapon?

Now a few things about the cartridges. The 9mm/.40/.45 thing is ok, but not really up to the potiental of the rifle. .357 sig and 10mm is where it should be. There is no reason the .40 S&W version could no be in .357 sig. That would put the 125gr rounds out at 1500 fps, making it a sort of M1 Carbine (bit weak, but still about there.) The 10 mm would be the cat's meow. A short simi-auto .41 magnum.

Anyway, they didn't ask for my input. In fact I wonder just who came up with that safety, mag release, and stock design. Un-enspiring to say the least.

Justin_P
08-09-2004, 02:26 PM
This is purely my opinion but if I'm going to use a carbine for home defense, I'd like it to have every possible advantage over whatever the intruder's weapon would have.

Like I said, this is purely my opinion, but I'd much rather have a higher capacity than 7 or 10 rounds in my carbine. 15 is a start. On the other hand, I want a more powerful round than a 9mm.

cwm1150
08-15-2004, 02:10 PM
I regulary carry and 9mm AR in my patrol vehicle's front seat. I have qualified 100% with it out to 100 yards. I like the 9mm it might be a little underpowered but it's light weight compared to the Bushmaster .223 carbine I have and the fact that it's my only LE gun with collapsable stock make it my long gun of choice in my urban patrol beat. You just have to be aware of it's capabilities and work within them :)

combat effective
08-15-2004, 03:47 PM
I actually got to handle one of the Storms yesterday in a local shop. It is much more compact than may Ruger PC9; however, I really didn't like the sights on it. The only real advantges that I saw for it over the Ruger 9mm is its compact size and the ability to attach a light to the forend. It cost twice what the Ruger cost. The Rugers can be had in the mid $300 range if you look for them. The Beretta is up in the $600 range. For that money you might as well go with an AR.

DHart
09-25-2005, 11:50 AM
Well... I finally bought a CX4 Storm in 9mm with a number of 15- and 20-round mags. So far a few hundred rounds downrange.

I really like the carbine... it's small size makes it really convenient to have around and to travel with. Reliability has been perfect... even during rapid fire.

I think the features are very well thought out... the gun is remarkably adaptable to varying needs.

I decided on 9mm primarily because of capacity and because I believe at close range 9mm can be very effective. I really like having 20+1 rounds of Winchester Ranger 147 gr. JHP or Silvertip 147 gr. JHP on tap with a modest velocity increase over pistol length barrels. (Chrony results with Winchester 147 gr. JHP fired through the 16" CX4 barrel is 1110 fps vs. 990 from 4" pistol). I like the heavier weight bullet for likelihood of better penetration than light weight JHP's offer and the moderate velocity increase from the carbine is a plus.

While 9mm is not the most power possible, I would not be using the carbine for self-defense use at much greater than, probably, 30-50 feet! With the right ammo, high capacity, and the ability to quickly and accurately place it well, I'm comfortable with this carbine in 9mm for civilian defense use.

I am considering adding another Storm in .40 caliber now that hi-cap mags for the carbine in forty caliber will be available soon. (Beretta's new PX4 pistol in .40 cal. will have hi-cap forty caliber mags available which the CX4 carbine can accept.)

SO far, I think the CX4 carbine makes a nice companion gun to a 9mm pistol (Browning Hi-Power in my case) and in forty, will be even better.

Decado
09-26-2005, 09:53 AM
I had a chance to try out a Storm in .45 ACP with an attached EoTech sight. It was very accurate and and handled well IMO. The owner stated that .45 ACP hi-cap magazines were in the works and if so the .45 would be my choice if I was ever to buy one.

Decado

bae4
09-26-2005, 10:15 AM
Now if they only did the .45 ACP version with G21 mags...

It looked tempting but the small capacity of the mags really turned me off.

DHart
09-26-2005, 10:26 AM
I agree... the small capacity in .45 acp doesn't work for me... I've got my 1911's for that. But in forty and nine, I think the carbine really rocks. Forty should have a 17 round capacity soon! And I've got 20+1 right now with factory mags in nine.

DaveJames
09-27-2005, 02:04 PM
What they and Ruger need to do is bring it out in the 357SIG :cool:

Treyarch
09-27-2005, 02:22 PM
What they need to do is bring out 30 and 40 round magazines.

If you are going to have a carbine, then have the round count larger than that of the pistol.

rgrgak
09-28-2005, 01:49 AM
Advantages of any long-arm over a pistol:
- Longer sight radius, which can increase practical accuracy.
- Shoulder stock, which can increase speed of sighting.
- Shoulder stock and forearm, which can increase stability (which increases practical accuracy and controllability).
- Longer barrel, which will generally slightly increase the bullet's velocity and energy.

Advantages of a pistol over any long-arm:
- Concealability.
- Portability.
- Maneuverability in tight spaces.
- Designed for one-hand operation.

Advantages of rifle calibers over pistol calibers:
- Better armor/barrier penetration.
- Higher energy for better stopping-power.
- Higher energy for longer effective-range.
- Flatter trajectory for longer accuracy.

Advantages of pistol calibers over rifle calibers:
- Use allowed at most indoor ranges, so you can practice more.
- 9mm is cheaper than 5.56mm, so you can afford to practice more.
- Less recoil & noise for easier use in practice and battle.
- Magazine compatibility (if you choose matching carbines & pistols).

======================

To me, the "sweet-spot" for a pistol-caliber carbine is a situation where a pistol is usable but a long-gun would be an improvement. The carbine becomes your primary weapon with the pistol as the backup. All the ammunition you carry is immediately usable in either.

I haven't bought one yet.

First, I would need to find one that is as reliable as my 9mm Glocks while using their magazines. (If I got the Beretta Storm, I'd plan on using it in conjuction with my 92FS. But I personally consider the G17/G19 to be superior to the 92FS. So I'll look elsewhere for the carbine.)

Second, I wonder whether it's worth the time and money to aquire and train with a pistol-caliber carbine. I will rarely have occasion to carry it, so why not spend that time and money on improving my skill with the handguns? The carbine can improve my practical accuracy, speed of sighting, and controllability for follow-up shots. But training with the handgun can also improve these things and the handgun is always with me.

DHart
09-28-2005, 02:51 AM
rgrgak.... I love the pistol caliber carbine (my Beretta CX4 Storm) just because they're really well done, fun and can be very effective at moderately near distances (defense of home and property)... also I have one because I can and I enjoy it. All the reason I need. It is also nice to have 20+1 rounds of 147 gr. Gold Dot or Golden Saber ammo on tap. Flies at about 1110 fps from the 16" Beretta barrel. Flawless functioning as well.

Personally, I have no need nor interest in rifle calibers. (I'm not a hunter.) All of my rifles are chambered in pistol calibers (9mm, .357, .44 mag, .45 Colt, and .454 Casull) and are used for plinking and relatively close range defense use. I also have pistols and revolvers to match up with them all.

But let's not forget shottys... they're the REAL sweet spot for home defense scenarios.... my first choice in defending the homestead. Nothing more effective at five to fifty feet than a 12 gauge with six to nine rounds of 00 Buckshot on tap! Fun to shoot and remarkably effective!

MTS
09-28-2005, 06:54 AM
First, I would need to find one that is as reliable as my 9mm Glocks while using their magazines. (If I got the Beretta Storm, I'd plan on using it in conjuction with my 92FS. But I personally consider the G17/G19 to be superior to the 92FS. So I'll look elsewhere for the carbine.)

Olympic Arms is making 9MM and .40S&W AR-15s that take Glock mags. They however have had a spotty record for QC in the past.

rgrgak
09-28-2005, 09:54 AM
Olympic Arms is making 9MM and .40S&W AR-15s that take Glock mags. They however have had a spotty record for QC in the past.

I've seen one of those and thought about it, but reliability was a question and that's non-negotiable. I've also thought about Kel-Tec's Sub-2000 folding carbine. Know of any others that use 9mm Glock mags?