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Cold War Scout
11-27-2007, 05:09 AM
CBS 46

POSTED: 12:32 pm EST November 26, 2007
UPDATED: 5:06 pm EST November 26, 2007



DOUGLASVILLE, Ga. -- A suspect and a security guard were shot during an attempted robbery at a shopping mall Monday, while a lunchtime crowd ducked for cover, officials and witnesses said.


The guard's injuries were not believed to be life-threatening, said Bill Ball, general manager of the Arbor Place Mall. Police said the suspect's wounds were more severe.


The events unfolded while a Brinks guard was entering the mall to service some of the ATM machines, Ball said.


Douglasville Police Chief Joe Whisenant said it happened a few minutes after noon.


He said the security guard was inside on the second floor when the would-be robber approached and put a gun to the guard's head. They scuffled and both men fired, with the guard hit in the leg and the suspect in the mouth, Whisenant said.


Both men were taken to Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta (http://www.cbs46.com/print/14694206/detail.html#). The suspect underwent emergency surgery Monday afternoon, the chief said.


Neither man's identity was immediately released. Whisenant said the suspect is 41 years old and from DeKalb County on Atlanta's eastern side.

He also said that money, the apparent target of the robbery, was recovered.


A witness, Denise Shipp of Douglasville, said she was eating lunch in the mall's food court with her husband Jon when they heard gunshots. She said her husband saw the guard tackle the suspect and hold him on ground.


She said people in the food court were diving under tables, holding up chairs and hiding behind partition walls.


A bullet hole was visible in a window over the mall's front entrance -- its apparent trajectory from the shooting scene passing directly above the food court and an indoor playground.


Mall officials were unsure if any children were on the playground when the shooting happened, but eyewitnesses said they saw parents grabbing children from the playground and running away.

Another bullet tore through a laminated sign at the Auntie Anne's pretzel stand, narrowly missing employee Catrina Lemley and manager Sharon Wilson.


"I was fixing a Coke for a customer. I heard gunshots and I saw pieces of the sign flying out. My manager told me to get down," said Lemley, 19, who is eight months pregnant. "It was scary."


Diana Shasta, 30, manager of Friedman's Marketing Services, was in the food court with a couple of coworkers near the crime scene.

"It was pop, pop, pop, pop, and then you knew," Shasta said.

She said she saw people running from the food court "with terror on their faces."


"I've never been so frightened in my life," she said. "Everybody was running for their lives, grabbing their babies, pulling their friends."

Douglasville police put the mall under lockdown, not letting anyone in or out, for a brief period during the immediate aftermath of the shooting.

The mall manager told The Associated Press that a second suspect was arrested. But Whisenant said the wounded man is the only known suspect in the case.


By mid-afternoon, yellow crime scene tape still surrounded the Brinks truck, which remained outside the mall entrance, but traffic was being allowed in and out of mall freely. The mall's sound system was playing Christmas tunes.


Douglasville police did not immediately return a call for comment from The Associated Press.


Douglasville is 21 miles west of Atlanta.
Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. (http://www.cbs46.com/news/2455821/detail.html) All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

CR Williams
11-27-2007, 06:56 AM
Note to self: Scan harder and take note of environment more whenever you see an armored car or armed guard from same...

enoch
11-27-2007, 07:41 AM
"Both men were taken to Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta (http://www.cbs46.com/print/14694206/detail.html#). The guard underwent emergency surgery Monday afternoon, while the thief was tossed into the dumpster on the east side of the building the chief said."

There, that's better. :)

Deaf Smith
11-27-2007, 10:34 AM
Note to self: Scan harder and take note of environment more whenever you see an armored car or armed guard from same...

Always. I always think about such when the local Brinks is in the neighborhood. Even Wal-Mart has banks in them know and feel sooner or later it will happen there.

As Dillinger said, "it's where the money is".

Ron_Miami
11-27-2007, 01:42 PM
As Dillinger said, "it's where the money is".

I think that quote is from Willie Sutton (http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/sutton/sutton.htm).

62-10
11-27-2007, 02:34 PM
Solo ATM agents can be extremely vulnerable to that approach. Some wear shoulder holsters because they are frequently squatting facing the machine. Glad to see the GG get a hit on the BG, too bad the GG also took one.

armed_flyfisher
11-27-2007, 04:11 PM
"Solo ATM agents..."

Seems like a bad idea to start with.

Steve Collins
11-28-2007, 12:39 AM
The Armored Car company guards, which includes Brinks, Loomis, Wells Fargo, etc., are considered expendable. Of the ones I have trained, some were just there because the company said they had to be, they wouldn't have come on a Saturday otherwise. Some were carrying the company issued .357 revolvers, others carrying Glocks or SIGs, and I've had some show up with a POS Jennings or Hi-Point 9mm!:eek:
I watched the rear sight come off of each of them during the course of fire; it did not endear me to the brand!

You couldn't pay me enough to be an armored car guard. The company would rather you give up the money than fight, and you'll be hard pressed to get them to pay for any training other than the minimum that they need for the insurance company to cover them.

Fredo
11-28-2007, 05:47 AM
I've been to that mall many times. It's in a nice area and not a dangerous place at all. Just goes to show that stuff can happen anywhere.

DonGlock26
11-28-2007, 03:06 PM
Note to self: Scan harder and take note of environment more whenever you see an armored car or armed guard from same...



Yep, armored car = condition orange. Heck-They should just paint them orange.;)

armed_flyfisher
11-28-2007, 03:09 PM
The Armored Car company guards, which includes Brinks, Loomis, Wells Fargo, etc., are considered expendable.

I suspect most of private security is like this, based on my short-lived and ill-considered part-time foray into that business.

My current employer is a large corporation that employs the services of a large private security corporation. (Name starts with "W.") Mid-morning the other day I cut through the cafeteria and saw one of their guys sitting under the TV, which lives in a corner of the area, his back to Life, the Universe, and Everything. I had to resist the urge to do something startling.

exkc135driver
11-28-2007, 11:24 PM
I live a couple of miles from a Home Depot. The back of that Home Depot backs up to a major interstate highway. A couple of years ago a security company (I forget which one, but it was one of the ones that uses the large armored trucks like Brink's or Wells Fargo) was making a pickup. A BG walked up to the Brink's (or whatever) employee as she (yes, she) was walking from the store to the armored truck, shot her point-blank in the chest (she was dead at the scene), grabbed the money bag, and then ran around the back of the Home Depot to the interstate, where BG #2 was waiting in a car. BG#1 piled in and off they sped. They have not been caught. Home Depot promptly put up a 12-15 foot high chain link fence at the back of their store ... which didn't do the dead guard any good.

This is just one reason why I stay the hell away from armored cars. If I see one pulled up in front of a store I am about to enter, I'll go someplace else for the 5 minutes it will take for the armored car to leave. If I'm leaving a store and an armored car pulls up, I take the most direct route away from the armored car, but not in the direction of the store's office (where the safe probably is) or the ATM. If for some reason I find myself close to one, I move away immediately.

I'm not worried about being mistaken for an armored car guard, but I am worried about getting hit by crossfire or errant shots. The BG won't care who he hits, and the armored car people are probably about as competent with handguns as my cats are.

Cold War Scout
11-29-2007, 05:29 AM
I live a couple of miles from a Home Depot. The back of that Home Depot backs up to a major interstate highway. A couple of years ago a security company (I forget which one, but it was one of the ones that uses the large armored trucks like Brink's or Wells Fargo) was making a pickup. A BG walked up to the Brink's (or whatever) employee as she (yes, she) was walking from the store to the armored truck, shot her point-blank in the chest (she was dead at the scene), grabbed the money bag, and then ran around the back of the Home Depot to the interstate, where BG #2 was waiting in a car. BG#1 piled in and off they sped. They have not been caught. Home Depot promptly put up a 12-15 foot high chain link fence at the back of their store ... which didn't do the dead guard any good.

This is just one reason why I stay the hell away from armored cars. If I see one pulled up in front of a store I am about to enter, I'll go someplace else for the 5 minutes it will take for the armored car to leave. If I'm leaving a store and an armored car pulls up, I take the most direct route away from the armored car, but not in the direction of the store's office (where the safe probably is) or the ATM. If for some reason I find myself close to one, I move away immediately.

I'm not worried about being mistaken for an armored car guard, but I am worried about getting hit by crossfire or errant shots. The BG won't care who he hits, and the armored car people are probably about as competent with handguns as my cats are.

One thing I also came to learn in my old job was how many robberies were planned, with people in place, but for some reason or another were not followed through on (because the moment did not seem right, or a cop car happened to be right there, or whatever reason). Plus many of these robberies have recons done in advance so even if the car does not get robbed at that moment, it may still be in the process of being scouted out.

When I had to sit in court for about 6 months in the 1980s at the Brinks armored car robbery trial, I counted upwards of 20 people who were involved and on the scene in that robbery that day. People with various roles ranging from engagement to ready to engage should a cop arrive on the scene. If you as a CCWer get involved in one of these, you could be biting off more than you can chew if it's one of these radical groups doing the robbing.

I stay the fuck away from armored cars myself.

62-10
11-29-2007, 06:19 AM
I stay the f@ck away from armored cars myself.

In the mid 90's I consulted with an armored company that serviced the PA-NJ-DE-MD area. The standard duty weapon was a 9mm. The issued load was FMJ! That was purportedly as a consequence of the NJ exposure (as NJ prohibits HP's for general carry by non LEO's). I recommended a number of JSP loads, all of which were rejected by their firearms chief. He was ex-Army and was quite satisfied with the "penetration" of the FMJ's. :dope:

The issue armor was Level III. It gets very hot movig bags of coin hurredly from truck to drop point. As a consequence of that, many guards chose to forego the armor. I therefore recommended a lightweight vest rated for IIA. That recommendation was also rejected in favor of Level III. Only the company really didn't care if the guard wore the armor or not. :rolleyes:

Stay away? You bet. ;)

goin2guns
12-04-2007, 09:13 PM
i hope it was a mall that they don't allow CCW in so that some licensed citizen that had to disarm will sue the crap out of the mall.

there is nothing I hate more than seeing a legal no carry sign at the mall and after I find the entry that isnt posted, I enter to see the 87 year old 350 Lbs guard patrolling on a scooter with his bear spray and walkie talkie.

Yes, now me and my wife and small children feel much safer.....:rolleyes:

austin
12-05-2007, 07:55 AM
This is just one reason why I stay the hell away from armored cars. If I see one pulled up in front of a store I am about to enter, I'll go someplace else for the 5 minutes it will take for the armored car to leave. If I'm leaving a store and an armored car pulls up, I take the most direct route away from the armored car, but not in the direction of the store's office (where the safe probably is) or the ATM. If for some reason I find myself close to one, I move away immediately.
.

I was at the bank drive up teller yesterday.

An armored car pulled up in the ATM lane. A guy got out to refill the ATM and he was alert - even looked around then looked at me three times. But his partner, a woman, the driver, was scribbling on her notebook and not once looked around or at the guy.

I looked around for him while I was there, but I'd have to give her an F. The man had his ass in the air and his head buried in the ATM for almost a minute. I could have kicked him in the ass three times and marked the armored car's tire while the driver had her head in her notebook.

I would imagine they would have an SOP they'd use at all ATMs and stops. But they did not follow any protocol that I could see.

After seeing this, I can see how armored car guards get shot. Their buddy leaves them to the wolves.

BTW, the guards wore level III vests and carried glocks and radios.

Elkhunter
12-05-2007, 08:47 AM
When I had to sit in court for about 6 months in the 1980s at the Brinks armored car robbery trial, I counted upwards of 20 people who were involved and on the scene in that robbery that day. People with various roles ranging from engagement to ready to engage should a cop arrive on the scene. If you as a CCWer get involved in one of these, you could be biting off more than you can chew if it's one of these radical groups doing the robbing.

Thanks for that info CWS, this is something I had not known or given thought to.

Woody80
12-06-2007, 06:25 PM
I worked for an armored car company in a large city for 3+ years. During that time I was directed to this forum and it helped mold my mindset greatly. As many of you have mentioned previously, the general public (sheeple) pay absolutely no attention to armored vehicles. While we would be stopped at a store most sheeple passed on by it with the same thought as walking past a normal passenger car. I can't even begin to recall the number of times I would be loading/unloading liability at a location and sheeple would *again* walk entirely too close to my armored vehicle without giving it a second thought. I made it a point to ask them to back up, and if that didn't work I resorted to more persuasive measures:D. I had the good fortune to work with a few people who I could always count on to watch my back. However, there were others who I worked with that I knew I could not trust and that I was totally responsible for watching out for the both of us.
Anyway, I feel it was a worthwhile experience in that I learned how to operate in a safe and alert manner in some pretty bad parts of town. I have since moved on to the police department (talk about jumping out of the pan and into the fire:)) but I think the experience has helped me have an edge that many in my recruit class and a few officers on the street do not.

volgrad
12-07-2007, 02:01 PM
When I had to sit in court for about 6 months in the 1980s at the Brinks armored car robbery trial, I counted upwards of 20 people who were involved and on the scene in that robbery that day. People with various roles ranging from engagement to ready to engage should a cop arrive on the scene. If you as a CCWer get involved in one of these, you could be biting off more than you can chew if it's one of these radical groups doing the robbing.

Thanks for that info CWS, this is something I had not known or given thought to.
This was interesting to me too. I have told this story to several folks and they were all floored. I will guarantee none of them will ever see an armored truck and not recall that story. Thanks.

Cold War Scout
12-07-2007, 02:06 PM
This was interesting to me too. I have told this story to several folks and they were all floored. I will guarantee none of them will ever see an armored truck and not recall that story. Thanks.

There was one Black LIberation Army guy who was sitting on a bench outside the target store chatting pleasantly with some older white ladies. The armored car pulled up, the doors opened, and this guy got up without a single word and started shooting. One guard was killed there. The 2 cops were killed at a roadblock some miles away.

Al Lipscomb
12-07-2007, 02:47 PM
Around here at least on ATM company uses unmarked cars and non-uniformed people to service them.