PDA

View Full Version : From A Student



Gabriel Suarez
07-19-2004, 11:23 AM
FROM A STUDENT:

Hi Gabe:

Great sound advice on the Forum about what a shotgun can and cannot do!

I have a stock Mossberg 500 12 shotgun with a modified choke on a 28" vent rib barrel for hunting and this combo gun also included a plain beaded 18" cylinder barrel and plan on using the 18" barrel for self defense inside the home.

While I have a small pistol grip to fit this shotgun, I'm a little apprehensive in using it due to quality of aim and longer followup shots due to not handling the recoil as well as the regular fiberglass stock.

How do you feel about pistol grips?

Answer: I see a great deal of these in central America. They allow the SGN to be meneuvered better and are not much of an issue IF the shots will be taken close range (as is usual). Forget about taking 100 yard slug shots this way, but for CQB at arm's length its not bad.

Also, I have painted the front bead on the 18" cylinder barrel flourescent green, but wonder if there is a better sight arrangement for SD at night inside the home. What do you suggest for sights on a short barrel? Can my local smith install rifle sights if they're available?

Answer: You can get rifle sights, but why bother. It sounds like you have a good set up there.

FYI: I was impressed at the tight shot group (00 Winchester Ranger Low Recoil buckshot) of only 4" at 30 yards with the modified 28" barrel and 2 1/2" - 3" group with the 18" cylinder choke at 10 yards: question - what brand of buckshot do you like and what size? 00, #4?

Answer: My HD SGN has Federal Premium Buckshot #00

What about slugs? I just purchased 10 boxes of Remington Low Recoil LE 1-oz. slugs (from CTD for only $1.86 per box of 5) to practice with.

PMC 00 and #4 buckshot at the same price are also used for range time.

Am I on the right track?

Answer: IMHO, forget #4, stay with #00. As far as LE Low Recoil. Its not that much of an advantage. Think hard about what you will use the SGN for. If I need slugs, I'll go with regular Brenekes, or Foster Slugs (standard power, not reduced)..

combat effective
07-19-2004, 12:12 PM
I am by no means as knowledgeable or as skilled as our host, but I just absolutely hate pistol grip only shotguns. I can deal with a pistol grip/stock combo if I have to do so, but I want to be able to shoulder the weapon in the "pocket" and get the cheekweld on the stock.

I readily admit that while I am a certified police firearms instructor with an additional shotgun certification I am not an "operator". So, I may be missing something here, but I just use the various ready positions to move through a structure.

Gabriel Suarez
07-19-2004, 12:49 PM
C.E.,

A stock is better, but a PG only is not just a baseball bat. You can make it work fine at close range.

DaveJames
07-19-2004, 09:40 PM
Pistol grips have there place but I would prefer a short butt stock to one, and I agree on the #4 loose it and go to larger shot,, same same on the slugs,,stay away from the SABOT type unless you have a rifled bore

John Silver
07-20-2004, 05:53 AM
I've never cared for PG griped shotguns because it seemed to limit the weapon so much - you were losing a lot of the capability.

However, I did have a friend who kept a couple around and called them his "Whippit Guns", because you could "whip 'em around fast" in close areas like a car or hallway.

I guess everything has it's place.

Does remind me of a SG class I was in, though. Woman had a PG shotgun and was warned to shoot from full extenstion. Nope, she brought it up to her face about where it would have been with a stock - and, well, she didn't show up the next day. Guess the bloody lip scared her off.

combat effective
07-20-2004, 12:17 PM
As I said above I am by no means an operator. I'm sure that there are those that can make them work, but I sure don't want to shoot one.

I did hear a funny story about a guy trying to shoot skeet with one and ended up busting out some teeth when the tried to hold it so that he could see the bead.

kevinstruemph
07-20-2004, 02:24 PM
What about some of the collapsable stocks that I've seen. Several (Uncle Mike's comes to mind) have received favorable reviews as far as comfort and utility in several of the gun magazines.

The only reason I ask is because of the storage space/ease of carry issues for a fixed stock long arm as oppossed to one that you can "take down" until you need to use it.

Thanks.

combat effective
07-20-2004, 04:03 PM
A lot of people like them and use them. I currently have the factory synthetic stock on my 870P, but I plan to switch to a Hogue. I just like the regular stock better than any of the oter stuff.

John Silver
07-20-2004, 07:29 PM
The comment about collapsable stocks and storage is valid - but these would rarley be used with the stock actually folded away. They are typically not very comfortable, but they cut storage size down and give you a shoulder weld for shooting.

I was in LA a few weeks ago and saw a motorcycle cop on Sunset with a shotgun (folding stock) on his bike - never seen that before. Made me wonder where he got the mount. Looked like the perfect thing for motorcycle camping trips in southern AZ.

Steve Camp
07-20-2004, 07:42 PM
Looked like the perfect thing for motorcycle camping trips in southern AZ.

You mean patrols? :D

Deaf Smith
07-20-2004, 08:22 PM
The problem with pistol gripped 'cruiser' shotguns has to do with recoil. Unlike movies, where you see them shoot fast-n-furious with those weapons, firing a light Mossburg 12 guage with full power buckshot is not particuarly fast and aiming can only be done pretty much from the hip. If you try to sight down the barrel you will, more likely than not, get socked by the gun as it jumps into your face.

Yes, that means hip shooting the shotgun is about all you have. Sure it will work at room distance, but I'm not all that sure about anything BUT CQB. That makes it a very limiting weapon (powerful, but limiting.)

I would suggest getting a regular hunting style rear stock and takeing a few inches off the butt. Kind of like the 'shortie' ARs.

As for folding shotgun stocks, they do kick mightly as they are not set up like a hunting style stock. I guess they are ok, especially if you are a motorcycle LEO (better than just your handgun.) But I would think a shortie AR would be more what a motorcycle cop should have.

Deaf

michael
07-21-2004, 07:47 AM
I can see where they have a purpose and would work,but I'm not a big fan of PG shotguns. I've played around with them, but wouldn't carry one personally. If the length is a problem, I just tuck the buttstock under my arm and fire from there. It is plenty accurate close up and helps to control the recoil. YMMV.

hardcorps1775
07-22-2004, 09:11 AM
actually, for a pg shotgun, there are a couple methods of firing better than firing from the hip. one is to put it in the middle of your chest (or rather, close to the middle of your chest). this turns you into a 12ga turret, basically. the other method is to tuck your grip tight against your chest about nipple level. with either of these, you want to keep your wrist straight to absorb the recoil rather than radically bend it like you would firing from the hip. oh yeah, make sure you have a good grip on the forearm otherwise you'll be going home with a split lip too! :D :D :D these techniques also keep the muzzle in your line of vision so aiming is a little better.

but pg's suck. i've had pg only, pg fixed stock, pg folding stock, and i'm back to the wood stock on my mossie! :D course, this might change with my new saiga12...

mlhoward
07-22-2004, 10:13 AM
As for folding shotgun stocks, they do kick mightly as they are not set up like a hunting style stock. I guess they are ok, especially if you are a motorcycle LEO (better than just your handgun.) But I would think a shortie AR would be more what a motorcycle cop should have.

Deaf

I would think an HK UMP or MP5 would be a better choice for a motorcycle officer.

MTS
07-22-2004, 02:54 PM
I would think an HK UMP or MP5 would be a better choice for a motorcycle officer.
Perhaps practicly but not politicly.

Newcop
07-23-2004, 08:46 AM
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-7/788022/bikemp51.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-7/788022/bikemp53.jpg

Images from www.militarymorons.com