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View Full Version : Headlock, where should the knife be used



Mark M33
06-28-2004, 07:38 PM
I'm interested in different techniques using a knife if one is in under a headlock by a BG. Thanks. Mark M33

Steve Camp
06-28-2004, 08:18 PM
I will have to leave descriptions of specific techniques to others, but if a BG has me in a headlock, and I am in fear for my life and/or great bodily injury, then I will try to strike the BG with my blade any where I can, and I will attack 3 ways:

hard
fast
continuously

Al Lipscomb
06-28-2004, 08:37 PM
If you are in a situation where you are justified in using leathal force then you have two options:

1) General attack with blade to body of attacker.

2) Attack arms or legs of attacker to disable limb and defeat attack.

Option #2 is not "being nice". While it would be wonderful to not take anothers life, that is not the goal. Our goal is to end the attack.

The advantage of hurting a limb is that the function ends with the cut. A cut or stab to the body might have to wait for enough blood loss to shut down the CNS.

For example, attacker 1 has you in a headlock and attacker #2 is trying to access your handgun. You have a clear access to your blade and you can take the leg of attacker #1 and force him to lose the use of the leg and balance. From there you may chose to take a hand or arm of attacker #2.

Attacking the arm of #1 may be an option, and may be the better move. Or an attack to the body of #1 might make more sense. A lot will depend on the exact situation and what you can do.

B0486
06-29-2004, 05:25 AM
If you are in a headlock, you do not use your knife to begin with to solve the problem. It's not the time for blade play.

It's not a lethal threat [ as a rule ], could be considered capable of creating great bodily harm however dependant on what the subject is atrtempting to do with you in such a position.

He has not introduced a weapon and so if you do pull the blade, you have escalated to deadly force with all the imcumbent prerequisites that must be met for lethal force to be used to begin with.

By the time you access the knife, you could have ended the situation empty handed through several techniques that make the attacker want to let you go and move off.

If by chance you are in fear of passing out from being headlocked [ the classic headlock would put your face about level with his abdomen/hips area ] one could target the thighs, knees, etc if you chose not go lethal.

Other targeting points to create more damage and probably death would be the femoral, groin areas. Upper inside top of the knee will usually bring immediate results of either being let go or him losing his balance and going to the ground as well.

Brownie

Mark M33
06-30-2004, 07:38 PM
Thanks for the the different technique guys, the escalation was a biggie. Twenty years ago a drunk had me on a headlock, but not tight, I was going to crush his toes but he let go when I turned. Mark M33

Q-ball
06-30-2004, 11:22 PM
It's not a lethal threat [ as a rule ], could be considered capable of creating great bodily harm however dependant on what the subject is atrtempting to do with you in such a position.

He has not introduced a weapon and so if you do pull the blade, you have escalated to deadly force with all the imcumbent prerequisites that must be met for lethal force to be used to begin with.

By the time you access the knife, you could have ended the situation empty handed through several techniques that make the attacker want to let you go and move off.

I would consider being in a headlock a deadly threat. He can impair my breathing/blood flow, causing death. I think that by putting me in a headlock he has demostrated the prerequisites necessary for deadly force. My time in this headlock is limited, so I don't want to jerk around with empty hand techniques if I have a weapon(s).
I will admit, I never have been in that situation, but if I am I think I would have to act fast or lights out.:(
SouthNarc has some PSP's at selfdefenseforums.com on getting out of a headlock, with a pistol. Take a look at his pics, I'd be too afraid of blowing my head off! I would probably 'reach' my weapon around and give him some rounds in his midsection before I went for the elbow. I tried to attach a pic, but it was too large a file.

B0486
07-01-2004, 05:56 AM
There are two excellent release techniques that work very effectively, immediately and require no weapons be used. By the time you went for the weapon, you would have resecured your freedom. Do they work on everyone? No. But until I see they are not working for some reason or other, I'm more apt to reserve going to lethal force immediately personally.

One of my students and I were discussing this yesterday based on this thread. He has seen and been shown how to use these techniques. He recently showed another person one of them in a demo and the person immediately released him and had tears in his eyes.

Is the person attempting to control you by the headlock or choke you out? I'd be more concerned about a neck injury than losing my breathing in a headlock. Most who use a headlock are not attempting to strangle you, but control you.

Pressure points readily available to everyone will get the job of disengagement done quite nicely and in very short order, long before you black out from lack of oxygen.

Brownie

Q-ball
07-01-2004, 04:06 PM
There are two excellent release techniques that work very effectively, immediately and require no weapons be used.
Please share, as I am unwise in the ways. (Except for the obvious nut grab)

B0486
07-01-2004, 07:40 PM
In the classic headlock, your head around his hip/waist, extend your arm closest to his body behind his that has ahold of you, reach up and run the outside edge of your palm under his nose. It pretty easy to find, your hand will feel find his face and guide it to it's target.

Make sure the pressure is under his nose and he'll bend his head back quite nicely for you, violently in compliance to ease that pain. You are out.

You redirected his thought process through pain. One finger will do if thats all you catch, and as an aside if you use find your index finger under the nose is the remaining fingers can work on the eyes at the same time.

There's another compliance point catching the thumb under the jawbone and directing pressure in and up toward the center of the skull. This one for a small guy held by a bigger one. You don't have so far to reach as in the nose.

The other point where one will pay attention quickly is under the armpit. It's exposed to your arm nearest his body, and your hand passes it closely on it's way to the nose.

It weakens the arm and begets a reaction upon applying pressure thats pretty funny to watch when you are practicing with a partner and they haven't seen it.

If you are strong enough you can take a man off his feet and to the ground by buckling his nearest knee, grabbing the leg and start to walk him around on the other perhaps.

Redirect the thought process through pain compliance. If you don't change their thought process, they continue to carry out their actions.

Pain is a good redirector. The body is vulnerable to it in certain areas.

Brownie

Q-ball
07-02-2004, 12:42 AM
Thanks brownie, good details.

B0486
07-02-2004, 05:22 AM
Q-ball:

No problem sir.

Brownie

Mark M33
07-02-2004, 10:05 AM
Excellent input, thanks.Mark M33

michael
07-03-2004, 05:26 PM
Another really simple technique is this:

Take your leg that is next to his body and place it behind his leg. Strike upward into his groin with your palm, then immediately use your other hand to reach up under his nose and force his head back, bending him backwards. As he releases you, hammerfist him in the face and repeat as necessary until he is down. Stomp as needed.

JJ1
07-06-2004, 06:36 PM
Here is another non-weapon based technique.

You are in the typical headlock on the attackers right side. To escape do the following:

1 Raise your left arm behind the attachers back

2 Place the fingers of the left hand in the hollow on the top of the shoulder and press in tightly

3 At the same time place the right hand fingers behind the right knee in the hollow

4 Now pull the shoulder back and down while lifting the knee

5 Watch the attacker fall flat on his back. He can not avoid it

6 End the situation as you see fit.


Reverse the hands for a left hand headlock.


Try this with a partner and see how well this works. Hint, use a padded mat underneath you and do it slow until you get a feel. The go to speed. Good luck.

Executed right, this is a simple technique to remember in a high stress situation.

JJ