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View Full Version : TID for flashlight?



Patrick Downs
10-09-2003, 09:40 AM
Any thoughts on this item, made by GG&G? It turns your Surefire (or Inova 5) into an impact device with teeth? I wonder what the legality would be... it's no longer just a flashlight that you used as an opportunistic weapon with the TID installed.

see it here: http://www.gggaz.com/products/tid.php

GG&G TID
(TACTICAL IMPACT DEVICE)
FOR SUREFIRE FLASHLIGHTS

There are numerous times when lethal force is neither justified nor desirable. The Alternative Force Block (AFB), conceived by the US Navy SEALS, and refined and manufactured by DVC Armaments, a GG&G enterprise, was designed to prevent an opponent from driving the slide of your pistol rearward (and thus completely deactivating the weapon) and also to provide an alternative to deadly force in Close Quarters Battle (CQB) environments without relinquishing the potential for lethality. There are also many instances when lethal force is not even an option.

Flashlights also are no longer an option. There is no more important accessory for an armed professional. They must be powerful–very powerful. SUREFIRE has come to dominate the field of handheld combat flashlights. More police tactical teams and military special operations units use SUREFIRE flashlights than any other make. As a consequence of their overwhelming popularity, we have designed an incredibly unique and innovative alternative force tool designed for use in conjunction with a substantial variety of SUREFIRE models.

Originally conceived by personal protection specialist and GG&G Technical Advisor Lance Harris, the new Tactical Impact Device (TID) fits easily on the bezel of the flashlight and is secured from removal by four small socket head screws. Manufactured from 4140 steel, it has a manganese phosphate finish. Although lightweight (from 0.05-pound to 0.10-pound, depending upon the model), the GG&G TID adds sufficient heft to the front end of the flashlight to accelerate the forward momentum during the thrust stroke. Its sharp, 5-teeth-per-inch pattern surrounds the entire bezel and provides an aggressive, and extremely effective, alternative to lethal force. As Lance Harris so aptly said in a recent interview; “The GG&G TID was developed to de-fang an opponent through the use of trapping and pressure-point-compliance techniques. There is no other alternative force tool available that offers the concealability, and versatility of the TID.”

sanchezero
10-09-2003, 11:27 AM
That thing is kinda cool, but definitely scary.

While it's probably ok legally to use ammo that's designed to rip limbs off and explode internally since a firearm is deadly force, it'd be hard to argue for that outta your flashlight in a court of law.

Of course, if you're a gov't superninja whacking people around the world then you should probably have one of those for your toothbrush.

mako25
10-09-2003, 05:11 PM
That thing is kinda cool, but definitely scary.

While it's probably ok legally to use ammo that's designed to rip limbs off and explode internally since a firearm is deadly force, it'd be hard to argue for that outta your flashlight in a court of law.

Of course, if you're a gov't superninja whacking people around the world then you should probably have one of those for your toothbrush.


I want one for my toothbrush!

Gabriel Suarez
10-09-2003, 05:29 PM
WTers,

I have one that I use in classes (not to hit the students with, just to show 'em what it is ;)

I will say that I've used the 6P and 9P as an impact weapon many many times and never had a light go bad as a result....em during the post action rise-off.

I plan to get one of the TIDs and flatten the teeth, perhaps checker the outer face (like on a 1911 frontstrap) and see how it works. Call it a LPD Lens Protection Device.

One thing about improvised weapons is that they must be explainable. A TID is obvious as far as what its intended purpose and some freedom-hating authorities may take it hard that you have one. A simple 6P is nothing more than a flashlight....or is it?

Demi Barbito
10-10-2003, 07:37 AM
I'm a huge fan of the TID.

Patrick Downs
10-10-2003, 09:20 AM
I have a great flashlight I keep in the car, that Cold Steel sold for a time (I wish they'd resurrect it).

It is slightly longer than a Streamlight 20x or 3D MagLite...maybe about 18" long. It is about 1.25" in diameter, made of anodized aircraft aluminum, and takes 5 AA batteries, iirc. The wall thickness of the light is about 1/4"...very thick and stout. When loaded with batteries, it is very stout with good mass. The exterior is nicely checkered at about 25 lpi.

It is one heck of a justifiable baton to keep in the car...it's just a flashlight! Of course, anti-personnel use would have to be justified and judicious... incorrectly applied, it would bust a pumpkin for sure.

B0486
10-20-2003, 12:12 PM
I have one on my e2 executive.

Can't see carrying a light without it myself. If they let you on the plane with them, I see no issues with using it to defend with, after all, the TSA let it pass through without being considered a weapon and we know if they say it's okay to fly with it, it must not be a weapon.

Brownie

sween1911
11-05-2003, 07:34 AM
The TID is problematic for me.

I can see if you use it in combination with joint-locks or holds that it would make a good compliance device. And on your weapon-mounted light for a door kicker where you would be employing a muzzle strike to make room for using your firearm would be cool, and to keep people from grabbing for your weapon, but for self defense, what can I do with it?

It's not particularly heavy enough for an impact weapon that can really break bones. Maybe if you get a good head shot, you can use it like a last ditch black jack. But I'd prefer a longer, heavier flashlight for knees, wrists or clavicle shot.

It's not sharp enough to really penetrate like a defensive knife. Sure, you can give the guy superficial round bite marks and nasty scratches, but what will that do except give him a cool scar and piss him off?

For me, it's a little too specialized to keep on my general carry light.

B0486
11-05-2003, 07:51 AM
The TID will scoop flesh like an ice cream scoop, digging into the flesh on the side of the head, back of the hands, forearms and taking a nice chunk out to the bone in some areas of the body.

It will get someones attention real quick.

I may never get to use the damned thing but it is there if I ever need it. Rather have it that way than not have it and have had the chance to use it thusly, buit it wasn't there.

It may not help, then again, it CAN"T help if you don't have it with you. Doesn't make the light any heavier, only a few millies longer and it'll dig deep enough to cause sever injuries.

As always, you will need to select your targets accordingly for it to be worth the effort.

Brownie

sween1911
11-05-2003, 08:25 AM
Brownie,

Thanks for your input. I'm seeing at least one place it might have in my toolbox as a way to protect my weapon and aid in retention. Being that my hands will be occupied, the off-hand with the flashlight might have to do double-duty.

mercop
12-04-2003, 06:28 PM
As far as breaking bones, I have no doubt that an E2E or a 6P with or without a TID will do some damage to say...oh the collar bone. Brownie, when you come down I will have to check yours out. I just may have to have one. Heck, with what I carry now I hope I don't fall into a deep puddle.

B0486
12-05-2003, 05:26 AM
mercop:

I'll have it with me, it's 24/7 on the belt.

Brownie

Steve
12-05-2003, 03:20 PM
I used mine on a C-3 about an month ago while trying to clear a path way to get to a fight in a local club, one large person was blocking the way and a comon preonial strike got his attn and i applied the tid to his neck and used it as a lever to push him out of the way left a nice hickey on this neck! i go no wear with out one i have done the lens cap deal as well on my plane light tsa none the wiser!

LFW
12-10-2003, 03:16 AM
I purchased a TID from GG&G on advice from this forum. I ordered via the Internet, and item was delivered the next day! Can't get any faster service than that--of course I'd better add that I live right here in Tucson where the company is located.--Leigh

billcameron
12-10-2003, 03:37 PM
I carry my C2 Cenurion in my left hand side pocket using clip. Generally wear untucked polo shirt which covers pocket. Would this device tear up your clothes that came in contact with it?

Steve
12-10-2003, 06:59 PM
I carry my C2 Cenurion in my left hand side pocket using clip. Generally wear untucked polo shirt which covers pocket. Would this device tear up your clothes that came in contact with it?

I carry the same set up but a C3 the only thinbg i have had torn up is my pocket corner by the metal clip on the light, the tid has never been a problem for me and cover garments

B0486
12-11-2003, 08:59 AM
Where can I get a lens cover for my E2E to go over the TID?

Brownie

B0486
12-11-2003, 11:59 AM
Called surefire, they say no way on the covers they make going over the TID from GG&G.

However, I did learn that surefire will shortly announce their own form of TID thats somewhat less aggressive in appearance but does the same thing as the TID.

They were playing the PC game with me and stated they were producing them not for defensive purposes but so that one could see the light was on if it had been set down but cutting bezels into the edge/side of their assemblies.

If you presently have a surefire and/or TID, you may want to call them after the first of the year when these new "bezels" will be available, no price at this time.

Their own new bezels will accept their lens covers for TSA's prying eyes.

Brownie

B0486
12-12-2003, 04:32 AM
David,

Thanks, you just saved me from spendig the money when they become available first of the year.

Brownie