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GlockenHammer
04-15-2004, 08:23 PM
Many of us practice disarms as a very practical and effective way to turn the tide when someone has the drop on us. But what do you do after you've got the weapon (assume pistol)? Do you shoot right away (a now unarmed assailant)? Do you create space? Does it depend on the assailant's next action?

Sam Spade
04-15-2004, 09:25 PM
I prefer to think of my newly acquired weapon as an impact device. See Gabe's CQS class for some tips on that.

Why?

Because I can't ensure that the BG's gun is 1) loaded 2) functional 3) of a model where I can reflexively work the safety, or even 4) a real gun and not a replica--and I don't want to take time to find the answers to 1-4. OTOH, it'll make a jim-dandy beating stick.

Steve Camp
04-15-2004, 10:43 PM
I dunno... call the police? Hold him/her for the proper authorities? If (s)he runs, let him/her go. Unload then field strip the weapon. Leave the weapon in pieces and keep the bullets? Just leave the area, keeping the weapon. Call police to give report, and turn in the weapon (or not).

If (s)he is on the ground, spread eagled, no visible weapon... NO I WOULD NOT SHOOT. The immediate threat has ceased.

Newcop
04-16-2004, 01:37 AM
Just did a weapon retention / take-away class.

After the disarm we were taught:

If our weapon, tap - rack - evaluate / bang.

If thier weapon, discard and get your own weapon into the fight. Why? Sam Spade nailed it:

Because I can't ensure that the BG's gun is 1) loaded 2) functional 3) of a model where I can reflexively work the safety, or even 4) a real gun and not a replica--and I don't want to take time to find the answers to 1-4. OTOH, it'll make a jim-dandy beating stick.

GlockenHammer
04-16-2004, 10:57 AM
I like Sam Spade's response, namely continue the fight with non-deadly force (and I agree, the muzzle smash Gabe taught us is very violent and effective).

Ragsbo
04-17-2004, 06:15 AM
It has to depends upon what the puke is still doing. If he is trying to do me harm, then use what ever force that is required to survive, including deadly force. But like Sam Spade says you might have to beat him to death if needed. Now if he breaks and runs, good riddance. I call the cops and let them take it from there. I might ask if I could keep the gun but for some reason I doudt they will allow that (just kidding).

Tradecraft
04-24-2004, 01:56 PM
Once you disarm the person you are not justified in using lethal force unless you face serious bodily injury or death. If he is now unarmed you should not shoot the person. Options you can use depending on your level of skill (assuming you do not have a weapon):

1. Restrain the offender physically, call police.
2. Attempt to keep the offender at the scene utilizing verbal commands, call police.
3. Leave the area to ensure your safety and call the police.

You must always assess the threat and respond in an appropriate manner. Your safety is the number one priority.

B0486
04-24-2004, 05:14 PM
There's a technique others may know [ from the front ] as well, where the disarm is not fully accomplished until the gun has been controlled and turned back on the perp if he doesn't let go.

His hand is still on the gun, your mitts are on cylinder/barrel or slide. If he refused to release it he loses the meat on the inside of the trigger finger to the bone when the disarm occurs. The other outcome is he shoots himself with his own weapon "during the struggle". No prints of mine on the handle/grip or trigger.

It can acually go either way, it's up to him, to a point.

Matt, remind me when I see you to show you this though you probably have seen it or avariation of the same. One of the things we had to be able to do 100% of the time against the instructors to get the cert at WerBells was disarms, they thought it important enough and showed us some things that work very well.

I've shown this for years and no one has beaten the disarm yet if the gun is not more that 1/2 my arms reach. Even after the first few with the same person where he knows what you are goig to do, they lose.

Brownie