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Gabriel Suarez
10-07-2003, 02:16 PM
LANYARDS ON YOUR FLASHLIGHTS?

The student on the line assured me he knew what he was
doing, and that the long black nylon lanyard on his high dollar "illumination tool" was essential. Then, as he resumed firing, his pistol produced a faliure to fire. His malfunction clearing procedure
was instantaneous with minimal lag time. Only problem was that he tap-racked his head with the 9P flashlight flailing at the end of the pendulous lanyard.

I avoided lanyards on all but my "teaching" lights for many years. Then I stumbled upon a very interesting alternative. I had just returned from a contract teaching assignment and had a pull ring from a flash bang in my jacket pocket. I had tossed this onto my desk and began reading some reasearch material that our secretary collected for me on improvised weapons. One of the weapons described was something called a "koppo". This is a sort of Yawara stick often utilized in old Japanese combative studies. The text I was reading, the flash bang ring on my desk, and the Surefire 6P light next to it formed together in my mind.

The flash bang ring was removed from the actual "pin" and attached to the lanyard ring on the Surefire 6P. I noticed immediately that it was a very secure arrangement. The flashlight, being held much closer to the hand, does not flop around like the southbound half of a northbound nunchaku. To "clear" the light out of the way for proactive or reactive weapon manipulations, door opening, or whatever, you simply flipped it onto the back of your hand.

Bringing the light back into the "illumination position" was just as quick. This arrangement does everything the lanyards do without any of the liabilities associated with them. It also makes for a much "cleaner" carry since you don't have a long loop of para-cord flopping around whenever the light is carried. To the arrangement, I added a red lensed microlight (for those times when you want to be really sneaky) providing a different type and level of illumination. This last item is not that important, but it does show the flexibility of this system.
The lanyard ring attachment can be gotten from Surefire. I think its called a Z12. For those who don't work with these devices, Grenade/Flashbang Pull Rings can be found at gunshows and military surplus stores .Give this set-up a try, I think you'll like it.

Bill Stringer
10-13-2003, 03:40 PM
LANYARDS ON YOUR FLASHLIGHTS?

The student on the line assured me he knew what he was
doing, and that the long black nylon lanyard on his high dollar "illumination tool" was essential. Then, as he resumed firing, his pistol produced a faliure to fire. His malfunction clearing procedure
was instantaneous with minimal lag time. Only problem was that he tap-racked his head with the 9P flashlight flailing at the end of the pendulous lanyard.

I avoided lanyards on all but my "teaching" lights for many years. Then I stumbled upon a very interesting alternative. I had just returned from a contract teaching assignment and had a pull ring from a flash bang in my jacket pocket. I had tossed this onto my desk and began reading some reasearch material that our secretary collected for me on improvised weapons. One of the weapons described was something called a "koppo". This is a sort of Yawara stick often utilized in old Japanese combative studies. The text I was reading, the flash bang ring on my desk, and the Surefire 6P light next to it formed together in my mind.

The flash bang ring was removed from the actual "pin" and attached to the lanyard ring on the Surefire 6P. I noticed immediately that it was a very secure arrangement. The flashlight, being held much closer to the hand, does not flop around like the southbound half of a northbound nunchaku. To "clear" the light out of the way for proactive or reactive weapon manipulations, door opening, or whatever, you simply flipped it onto the back of your hand.

Bringing the light back into the "illumination position" was just as quick. This arrangement does everything the lanyards do without any of the liabilities associated with them. It also makes for a much "cleaner" carry since you don't have a long loop of para-cord flopping around whenever the light is carried. To the arrangement, I added a red lensed microlight (for those times when you want to be really sneaky) providing a different type and level of illumination. This last item is not that important, but it does show the flexibility of this system.
The lanyard ring attachment can be gotten from Surefire. I think its called a Z12. For those who don't work with these devices, Grenade/Flashbang Pull Rings can be found at gunshows and military surplus stores .Give this set-up a try, I think you'll like it.


Gabe,

What's the trick to viewing the pictures?

Bill

MTS
10-13-2003, 05:57 PM
Bill Stringer,

I had a problem viewing the pictures for a while. You might send an email to the administrator and let him take a look.

Yours,

Mark

Tactical Grappler
10-14-2003, 12:58 PM
I went to this form of lanyard on my duty light after seeing it on Suarez International and it works very well.

I tried both the DD ring and the soft elastic hair band versions (the latter was talked about on Strategos forum). The idea being that the soft elastic would be better in a light retention situation where bad guy grabs the light and yanks it from your hand, possibly "sleeving" your finger at the same time.

The DD ring seems to allow a little better control of the light when it is not in hand (i.e. opening doors or mag changes), however.

Gabriel Suarez
10-14-2003, 01:10 PM
I went to this form of lanyard on my duty light after seeing it on Suarez International and it works very well.

I tried both the DD ring and the soft elastic hair band versions (the latter was talked about on Strategos forum). The idea being that the soft elastic would be better in a light retention situation where bad guy grabs the light and yanks it from your hand, possibly "sleeving" your finger at the same time.

The DD ring seems to allow a little better control of the light when it is not in hand (i.e. opening doors or mag changes), however.

The DD Ring (Diversionary Device Ring) is pretty big. I doubt your finger would receive any injury as all you'd need to do was open your hand and the light would fall out.

Tactical Grappler
10-14-2003, 01:16 PM
This thread contains a description and depiction of transfer of the light and gun from hand to hand if you are an ambi-dextrous shooter:

http://www.strategosforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000036

I think there is an easier way (requiring less dexterity) that also allows better hold on the weapon in case you suddenly need to fire during the switch.

Instead of holding the flashlight with three fingers and switching the gun to the same hand, so that you are only holding the weapon with the web of the hand and between thumb and forefinger, as they describe;

Simply take your pinky finger off the gun and place the light in the crook of the pinky. You can still easily fire the weapon here as you have all but your pinky holding the gun.

Then switch the gun to the off hand with a full grip. Then manipulate your other fingers around the light and you are good to go!

Gabriel Suarez
10-14-2003, 01:32 PM
This thread contains a description and depiction of transfer of the light and gun from hand to hand if you are an ambi-dextrous shooter:

http://www.strategosforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000036

I think there is an easier way (requiring less dexterity) that also allows better hold on the weapon in case you suddenly need to fire during the switch.

Instead of holding the flashlight with three fingers and switching the gun to the same hand, so that you are only holding the weapon with the web of the hand and between thumb and forefinger, as they describe;

Simply take your pinky finger off the gun and place the light in the crook of the pinky. You can still easily fire the weapon here as you have all but your pinky holding the gun.

Then switch the gun to the off hand with a full grip. Then manipulate your other fingers around the light and you are good to go!


TG,

Good technique. That does work better. Now try it with the DD Ring. Rioll the light onto the back of the hand, transfer the gun, and then reach underneath to grab up the light with the hand that just gave up the gun. This makes it even easier.

Tactical Grappler
10-14-2003, 01:46 PM
Gabe-

Sa - weet!

I have not tried it that way yet, something new for my toolbox!

Paul Gomez
10-17-2003, 05:50 AM
I've had good luck with the elastic shok-cord lanyards like these:

http://firearmstactical.com/pagea10.htm

Anyone have any experience with them?

Tangle
10-22-2003, 02:23 PM
Man, a weapon mounted light sounds better and better.

Gabriel Suarez
10-22-2003, 03:42 PM
The idea behingd the DD (Diversionary Device) Ring is that you can ditch the light if it becomes entangled or otherwise compromising, without more effort than simply opening your hand.

Paul Gomez
10-22-2003, 03:46 PM
I'll have to play around with the DD ring. I was at Angola [the prison, not the country:)] a few weeks back and picked up about a half dozen or so pins on a whim. Now I've got a use for them.

Tangle,

Realize that a weapon-mounted light doesn't replace a handheld light. They can supplement each other, but there are all sort of situations where you may want to point a light and not have to point your gun at the same spot.

Tangle
10-22-2003, 05:12 PM
Tangle,

Realize that a weapon-mounted light doesn't replace a handheld light. They can supplement each other, but there are all sort of situations where you may want to point a light and not have to point your gun at the same spot.

Paul,
Excellent point! However, I didn't mean to imply that the weapon light could totally replace the handheld.

The context of the discussion was how to manipulate a light and a gun without dropping/slopping either or how to hold the light with the gun for longer periods of time in a ready to light and shoot or in a search position. In either of those situations a weapon mounted light would be a better choice.

I still practice handheld techniques and I believe Gabe has found a real winner for a handheld light technique. I can't wait to try it.

As a civilian, I don't believe there are many situations where pointing my gun at someone to illuminate them is a problem. If I am justified in drawing my gun in the first place, I wouldn't be too worried about pointing the gun to illuminate somebody. If they are an immediate threat, I need to shoot, if they aren't a threat, I don't shoot. After all, that's true whether we use a tact light or room light. We point the gun where we look and decide whether to shoot or not.

Plus, I can remove the light and use it as a handheld if I need to. On the other hand, there are times when a handheld is simply useless. If one has to guide/hold a child or dog with one hand (or the support hand is unavailable for what ever reason) and manipulate a light with another hand, and hold a gun with the another hand, we run out of hands.

I keep a 1911 with an M3 on my bedside table over night. One night I had reason to point the gun toward my bedroom door and the light was immediately available and instantly on. Without the weapon mounted light, in the darkness, I would have to find my gun, then my light, get the light oriented, get in my handheld technique...it's just too slow and too much chance for error.

I would be remiss if I didn't add that I enjoy reading your thoughts and suggestions in your posts.

Paul Gomez
10-22-2003, 06:32 PM
Tangle,

Thanks for the kind words!

When I was working in law enforcement, I carried my Glock M19 with the M3 mounted 24/7. When I was off-duty I used one of the BladeTech holsters. But since I've gone back to the role of private citizen, the M3 only gets mounted when I'm home for the night.

A weapon-mounted light certainly solves most of issues related to interfacing the light and the gun.

Gabe's DD ring looks pretty interesting.

Tangle
10-23-2003, 04:29 AM
Tangle,

Gabe's DD ring looks pretty interesting.

I want to try the DD ring, but I must have missed where one gets them?

CJ8Vet
10-24-2003, 02:29 PM
Tangle- I am waiting for a friendly military guy to send me some and plan on hitting up some local LEO's BUT in the meantime I am using a large key ring,seems fine, it is 1" id, anyone care to post the measurements of a DD ring?
Mark
aka cj8vet



I want to try the DD ring, but I must have missed where one gets them?

sween1911
11-05-2003, 06:43 AM
I like the DD ring idea. Anyone try it with gloves on?

I wished I had a lanyard or something at the first ForceOnForce class down at The Responsible Shooter. I had a BG role player within contact distance bent over my cover looking for me in the dark, and I had a frantic few seconds when I dropped my Surefire G2 trying to clear my weapon. Those 3-5 seconds are AN ETERNITY when you have a BG closing in on you and you can't orient your equipment. Right now, I have a regular key ring around the barrel, under the tailcap, and a lanyard. But the lanyard's only about 8 inches long, so hopefully I won't tap rack myself in the head with it flailing around. ;) Just enough to have something to get a hold on.

MTS
11-05-2003, 06:58 AM
...in the meantime I am using a large key ring,seems fine, it is 1" id, anyone care to post the measurements of a DD ring?

I had one on the desk next to me and the interior diameter is right at one inch.

baker1425
03-16-2004, 07:35 PM
I had 23 bleary midnight guys in inservice today. I found the link about this neat DD gadget you all have been talking about. Not having access to pins (LT gets all excited when I pull a pin out and replace it with a paperclip), I stopped by a locksmith and got two sturdy keyrings to go between a short length of nylon webbing.

It was the hit of the flashlight course, and it is a good idea. I gave you credit there Supreme Allied Commandante, with a link to your website.

Craig

CouchTater
04-12-2004, 06:58 PM
Well, I don't have any lanyard rings for the tail end. But I did put bezel-end lanyard rings on my 6P and 9P a coupla years ago, so I could goof around with lanyard options. While lurking in the shadows here, I read this thread and wanted to try something. So I dug out a couple of those chromed key rings, one about 1.125" ID and the other about 0.875" ID, and wound them on my Surefires. What I found was that putting my weakside pinky thru the ring on the 6P, such that the light would hang knuckleside if I let go, would allow me to ninja-flip the light up into Harries mode or if released would give me full use of the hand. Downside seems to be that its harder to thread one's pinky into the ring when the lights in a vertical holster arrangement (all my Surefire holsters are lens-up). I have medium sized hands, and doing the same for the 9P is a bit of a stretch; the larger ring helps, but also is more eager to slide off.

+ I already had the lanyard rings and keychain rings
+ doesn't interfere with kydex or nylon holsters
+ if my finger gets "sleeved" in grappling I'd rather it be the pinky
+ in released mode its out of the way for punching

- hard to "ring-up" from holster, unless maybe I move the light behind my hip
- not yet approved by S.A.C.
- pinky has less dexterity & strength than index finger

Give this a try, it may actually make some sense.