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blueknighttn
03-19-2004, 08:17 PM
Gabe just purchased your book Reality- Based Gun fighting
This is the first text of yours I have been exposed to.. Excellent reference I like the no bulls**t format.

The SUL has grabbed my attention, this is the first experience with it. My agency (State Plain clothes investigative) teaches the low ready. I see a lot of benefit from the SUL.

Now for my Question. The thumbs are shown touching, do you used these to "push out" the pistol and smoothly go to a two hand hold? If not am I missing something?

Thanks in advance

'Stay safe"

Gabriel Suarez
03-19-2004, 08:24 PM
The thumbs do two things.

1). They act as an index to move the gun on target faster w/o having to rely on visual indexes to align it.

2). They maintain the ability to snap into a two handed hold faster tahn placing them in any other position.

Note that this is not the traditionally developed SUL. I quickly give credit where its due, but apparently we've made some mods to the SUL (a student who learned SUL from its inventor recently pointed out that I do it differently than he was taught.)

Sam Spade
03-19-2004, 08:30 PM
My understanding:

First, the thumbs provide an index as to where the muzzle is pointing. Put your hands in a pseudo-sul, but without thumb contact. Notice how easy it is to rotate your strong arm/wrist down, which results in the muzzle going horizontal and to your support side. Now with thumbs touching, you're given immediate feedback if your muzzle starts to drift.

Second, if you favor the thumbs forward shooting position, the touching thumbs more easily roll into that position than if they begin apart. Notice that the support index finger is also contacting the shooting hand, so you kind of roll around that contact point as well. If that's what you mean by "push out", we're in agreement.

(Edit: Drat. Gotta type faster.)

DaveJames
03-20-2004, 06:02 PM
BlueKnight,welcome aboard,, Harley? Honda? I rode with Virginia-5 untill the last back surgery

kforbus
03-21-2004, 06:48 PM
I also beleive that with the thumbs touching and the hand behind the weapon and training that way totally eliminates pointing the weapon to far in toward a leg or foot. In a stressful situation this could be handy as not to shoot yourself. I have seen it instructed with the non shooting hand on the outsie of the pistol and the firearms pointing in all kinds of directions.

I like the SUL, makes total sence to me.

By the way great book Gabe.

sween1911
03-22-2004, 08:49 AM
Where SUL shines as a ready position, IMO, is it gives the operator the ability to move in and among people. SUL works when just moving around at the range, or when examining a weapon at home, or at a gun shop or whatever. It allows a good transition between weapon presentation and full-on "hunt" mode.

Modern Technique
03-22-2004, 05:04 PM
I learned Gabe's SUL this weekend. I originally learned SUL from Max Joseph. I thought it was a good technique then, but Gabe has improved on it. The indexe points Gabe used (thumb prints together, weak hand on belly, slide along the knuckles) makes for a repeatable and safe ready position. It allows you to move and turn anywhere around anyone without covering them inadvertantly with the muzzle. Its also a great low-profile gun position. It may not be the one you use to confront anyone, but there are many times, as Gabe says, when you want the gun already in your hand, but low profile. Unlike the old school (gun is either in the holster, at the guard, or on target), Gabe teaches that the position of the gun depends on the situation at hand. The SUL answers some of those.

MT

farranger
03-27-2004, 05:46 PM
I learned Sul from Andy Stanford and am looking forward to Gabe's course in June in Colorado. From the pics on the martiallist review it looks like Andy and Gabe teach/do it fairly similarly. But, agreed that Sul is cool because it helps you move around a range/people without covering with the muzzle and around potential bad guys with less risk of getting gun pulled away. Kyle

tenchijin2
03-28-2004, 03:53 PM
I also learned the need to quit programming going to close contact before reholstering (very bad programed habit.

What is 'close contact'?