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45Smashemflat
09-24-2022, 09:04 PM
Old Fashioned or Manhattan?

Of the choice, rye or bourbon?

DiscussÖ

Right now, Iíve been developing my Old Fashioned game with Eagle Rare.

Brent Yamamoto
09-24-2022, 11:07 PM
Many thoughts on this one, but it’s been a long training day and I need sleep.

For now all I will say is that Mr. Bond may know his martinis, but a Manhattan must be stirred, not shaken.

IANative
09-25-2022, 08:42 AM
Old Fashioned, with Four Roses bourbon and pecan or black walnut bitters.

apamburn
09-25-2022, 05:40 PM
I keep trying to like the old fashioned but have mixed feelings still.

I'm a sucker for a sour. Specifically I love amaretto sour with a splash of water and a splash of whiskey. It cuts down the sweetness and increases the alcohol content.

If you want an easy and fast cocktail a dark n stormy is excellent. I prefer bumbu rum or Bacardi black will do.

extremist
09-25-2022, 05:57 PM
Old Fashioned.

I'm a cheater and use Old Fashioned mix from Master of Mixers, with Fee Brothers Old Fashioned bitters and various spirits- Bulleit, Rare Breed and Russels. Rye ot Bourbon I mix it up. Also add some Orange or Tangerine soda water to cut the sweetness. Rittenhouse, Sazerac, Wild Turkey 101Rye mixes great too.

chad newton
09-26-2022, 11:10 AM
I could use a couple double vodkas and cranberries....

Brent Yamamoto
09-26-2022, 01:09 PM
A few thoughts...

Drink what you like. Taste is personal and your taste is all that matters.

All that said, it's nice to get good recommendations on ingredients to use, how to make, etc.


I think the OF is more approachable to most folks who don't already like whiskey. It's more forgiving in a few ways and maybe less dependent on whatever whiskey you're using. Easier to make for a novice. Some whiskeys that you don't like straight can still be salvaged in an OF. (Though it's usually better if you already like the whiskey...certainly better than if you hate the whiskey.) You built it right in the glass. You can build it in a shaker and stir (don't shake) if you're making more than one at a time.


Not that the Manhattan is difficult but knowing a few things is necessary. It's more refined and less forgiving in your choice of alcohol. You better already like the whiskey you're using for one. I rarely order one when I'm out unless it's a high end bar with an experienced bartender. If it's shaken, it will be cloudy and ugly to look at, and it will taste dull and watered down. Stirring leaves the drink looking beautiful and doesn't taste like you're drinking brown water.


The OF is an any time drink (except perhaps when it's really hot). The Manhattan is for more elegant affairs.


Whiskey
Bourbon, rye, American single malt (barley) can all be good in either of these drinks. You can use Scotch, which becomes a Rob Roy. You can also use Rum or Brandy...I don't know what those are called but you can look up recipies.

Neither of these drinks have very many ingredients so they benefit from quality whiskeys; the liquor can't "hide" behind other ingredients like in some mixed drinks. You don't have to use super expensive stuff, but I wouldn't use rot gut either.

Here's a few off the top of my head that I liked in Old Fashioneds. Not an exhaustive list, there are lots of good ones.

Bullet Bourbon
Bullet Rye
Four Roses Single Barrel Bourbon (but I thought the Small Batch was terrible)
Eagle Rare
Westward American Single Malt
Whistlepig Piggyback Rye
Larceny


I don't have as much experience with the Manhattan. One that sticks out that was excellent was Blantons...but today it's super expensive, if you can find it at all.


Bitters

You won't go wrong with Angosturra. But there are lots of interesting flavors. Citrus, chocolate, etc. etc. One of my favorites is black walnut. Experimenting with different combinations of bitters and whiskey is fun and you can come up with really interesting and delicious recipes. Of course you can also come up with shit so make them in small doses and taste test. Have fun with it.


Sweetener
The OF calls for a teaspoon (more or less depending on taste) of sugar. Some recipes call for simple syrup, which is a little easier but it's just sweet and I prefer something that imparts some flavor if I'm going to put sugar in my body.

I prefer dark brown sugar. Demerara or Muscovado both add interesting flavors (toffee, molasses, caramel). Maple syrup if I don't have those. Gabe has some keto maple syrup which would be perfect for those trying to limit their sugar. Agave also works. Honey is my last choice but it works in a pinch.

Sweet vermouth only applies to the Manhattan. I don't know anything about vermouth but there's are a few major brands and most of them are fine.

Cherries
Both these drinks use cherries. Get the Bada Bing brand. They have regular, bourbon or rum soaked, perhaps some others. They are all very tasty, enhance the flavor of the drink, and they are very reasonable.

All the high end people will tell you to use Luxardo from Italy, but don't bother with it. To me they are not nearly as good as the Bada Bings, and they are expensive. Worth it if you really like them but the Bada Bings are both better and more reasonable, so win win.

Orange peel
This applies only to the OF. I tend to use a largish slice of peel and give it a twist before dropping it in the drink. Sometimes I'll do a small orange slide so there's actually a little pulp in it, depends on the whiskey.

Some OF recipes call for muddling all the ingredients in the glass, but I prefer to just drop the cherry and orange in there.



Neither one of these drinks are difficult to make and there are lots of recipes. Experiment with a whiskey you like. Try a couple different flavors of bitters and sweetening levels and see what you like best.

Brent Yamamoto
09-26-2022, 01:14 PM
There’s also this pre-made, barrel-aged OF. It’s simple and is quite good.

63539

chad newton
09-26-2022, 02:09 PM
Taking notes....

ShopMonkey
09-26-2022, 02:30 PM
typically i like an old fashioned with a well rounded bourbon using chocolate bitters. for those needing a bit more of an explanation, a well rounded bourbon is a bourbon with a good nose, that can be enjoyed neat or in a cocktail with out overpowering the mix.

as of late i've also been enjoying old fashions with rye, as it brings a new element to an old drink

Brent Yamamoto
09-26-2022, 02:45 PM
Another interesting recipe...

Basil Hayden Toast is not very good on its own. But with black walnut bitters it makes a damn fine OF.


I went to a whiskey tasting not long ago and found a bunch of varieties I wasn't familiar with, many of them were rye. I have stayed away from rye because most that I have had are Canadian style and I just don't like them. But several of these are really good and I look forward to trying some for both OFs and Manhanttans.

The Palace in Prescott had one that I liked from the tasting, Whistlepig Piggyback. It made an excellent OF.

IANative
09-26-2022, 02:57 PM
A few thoughts...
Four Roses Single Barrel Bourbon (but I thought the Small Batch was terrible)...

Often overlooked is the regular "yellow label" Four Roses. Somewhat sweet to begin with, I think this is a bourbon that is made for the OF.



Bitters

You won't go wrong with Angosturra. But there are lots of interesting flavors. One of my favorites is black walnut.

Black walnut bitters or pecan bitters are my two favorites. One of my favorite twists on the OF was made w/ black walnut bitters and topped w/ maple-smoked pecans.



Sweetener
I prefer dark brown sugar. Demerara or Muscovado both add interesting flavors (toffee, molasses, caramel). Maple syrup if I don't have those. Gabe has some keto maple syrup which would be perfect for those trying to limit their sugar. Agave also works. Honey is my last choice but it works in a pinch.

Will have to give maple syrup a try- I'm thinking an organic 100% label.



Orange peelSometimes I'll do a small orange slide so there's actually a little pulp in it, depends on the whiskey.


I do this, too, no so much for the pulp, but because I think it adds a more pronounced taste and aroma of orange.

Dang, Brent, it's only Monday and I'm leaning towards making an OF after work, lol.

chad newton
09-26-2022, 03:00 PM
typically i like an old fashioned with a well rounded bourbon using chocolate bitters. for those needing a bit more of an explanation, a well rounded bourbon is a bourbon with a good nose, that can be enjoyed neat or in a cocktail with out overpowering the mix.

as of late i've also been enjoying old fashions with rye, as it brings a new element to an old drink
Hah, it beats the hell out of the way we used to drink whiskey. Used to freeze the bottles and just drink it. One reason I canít touch the shit anymore.....

Brent Yamamoto
09-26-2022, 03:17 PM
IANative...Monday afternoon is an EXCELLENT time for an OF.

Maybe not T,W,Th...and certainly not ALL weekend. But Monday? Yeah. I often crave one after a monday at work and the dojo.

extremist
09-26-2022, 03:25 PM
There’s also this pre-made, barrel-aged OF. It’s simple and is quite good.


The Bulleit Old Fashioned and Manhattan premades are also quite good also, in the OF with their bourbon and the MH with their Rye. Green and orange bottles.

63540

IANative
09-26-2022, 03:32 PM
I forgot to mention Standard Proof Pecan Rye- my favorite rye for an OF.

45Smashemflat
09-26-2022, 03:49 PM
Glad to stir up some discussion.

Currently doing Eagle Rare bourbon, Angustora bitters, along with their orange bitters, plus a drip of Bittermilk OF mixer. That takes care of the sugar component.

Been thinking of trying a Manhattan, but haven’t bought the vermouth yet.

ShopMonkey
09-27-2022, 09:45 AM
The Bulleit Old Fashioned and Manhattan premades are also quite good also, in the OF with their bourbon and the MH with their Rye. Green and orange bottles.

63540

haven't had the bulleit pre-mades yet and my wife keeps drinking all my buffalo trace pre-made OF

RedLeg0811
10-03-2022, 08:58 AM
Brent,

I am not a rye guy either, but I have to say the Woodinville Whiskey rye is dam tasty.

Also I am not sure what type of cherries they are, but I have had some OF made with these dark cherries that taste awesome. Blow the crap out of any of those dyed bright red things they call cherries. i will have to check out the ones you were talking about.

SqueeDAB
10-13-2022, 01:57 AM
I was half expecting mentions of styrofoam and-, you know what, Nevermind.

David Bowman
10-13-2022, 10:04 PM
I keep these out in the shop in small fridge I have. Goes pretty good with 1 large round ice cube in a Yeti tumbler and the occasional cigar at the end of the week.
https://tiptopcocktails.com/products/old-fashioned
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0627/8486/4492/products/TTC_Ecommerce_Product_OF.png?v=1646334546&width=1445

They have these too...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0627/8486/4492/products/TTC_Ecommerce_Product_Manny.png?v=1646767408&width=1445

extremist
10-14-2022, 03:49 PM
I keep these out in the shop in small fridge I have. Goes pretty good with 1 large round ice cube in a Yeti tumbler and the occasional cigar at the end of the week.
https://tiptopcocktails.com/products/old-fashioned
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0627/8486/4492/products/TTC_Ecommerce_Product_OF.png?v=1646334546&width=1445

They have these too...



Tried a Tip Top Old fashioned tonight - meh, I prefer the Bulliet premades hands down.

Still prefer my own, whoever suggested the Black Walnut Bitters - they make the drink!, really like those.
Bought a new bottle of Bulliet 10 Year and tried tonight, superb, and also like Four Roses Small Batch, smooth and tasty.