Unlisted address

[Scott]

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/12/22/dozens-of-alaska-doctors-receive-packages-at-work-and-at-home-from-group-promoting-unproven-covid-19-treatments/?fbclid=IwAR0Kg8pEK2PwDUsFukSIObyYBUF0vMH3cUxZ3dwT mAwIWAhy7qSb7EpHDDA

So, some doctors got bent out of shape for people finding their home address to deliver Christmas chocolates.

Brainstorm some strategies to deter the 99%

Goal - for you and the missus to live a fairly normal life but be harder to locate from civilian unknowns.


tax roles
voter records
fishing and hunting licenses (public record, and requires affidavit of true address)
etc...

[jlwilliams]

Given that anyone can be found if you throw enough resources at finding them, the best you can do is make it more expensive than most people are going to pay to find. That's simple but not easy. You hire a lawyer, tell him what you want to do. He helps you buy your new home through a trust or an llc or whatever entity/ structure is appropriate in your state. You get your mail at a private box or via a forwarding service. It's not too complicated but it's not free and requires vigilance.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Its not like the old days. Unless you want to take extreme steps you can be found. And even then. Anyone can be found. And its not that hard. And even with the advice preceeding my post you can still be found. All I would need to do is devote a couple of days to a loose tail and I could find where you stayed.

Make yourself seem like a killer and you wont have to worry about it. Fear is the best weapon.

[LawDog]

There are multiple strategies for this, but none of them are perfect. If you are one of the "special people" (cops, judges, prosecutors, etc.), you may be eligible to list an alternative address on your ID. But this still fails entirely at hiding your address from the government, and you may still not want them to know where you live despite the fact that you work for them.

If you move to a new town, get a rental for a little while. It gives you the chance to learn the town before you commit to living any place in particular, and you can establish your address at the rental. Sure, you are supposed to file a change of address when you move. But don't. If you get stopped by a cop and he asks, "Do you still live at this address?" Just say yes. It's a routine question and they aren't really going to investigate it.

Get a P.O. Box or UPS Box or something like that. If you have the address P.O. Box 23, Prescott, AZ 86303, you can also write that out this way: 101 W. Goodwin St., Apt 23, Prescott, AZ 86303. The USPS officially says that you can only use "#23." You aren't supposed to say Apt, Ste, Unit, etc. But if you get mail to Apt 23, the mail sorters will still put it in your box. This is not a good method for getting a hunting license or putting it on any form where you have to swear under penalty of perjury that you are listing your true residence. It would be really easy to prove that you did not live in a 5x5" box. And there is a database that will indicate to government agencies that the address is a mailing center. So this is only a partial solution, but it works pretty well for hiding your address from lots of people.

Can you get mail at your workplace? For years, I listed my office address as my residence--even when I worked in a government building. I had pulled all-nighters a few times, so I could at least say that I slept there occasionally. But I would have done it regardless.

If you have the right kind of address and ability, consider being a clearinghouse for friends who want to conceal their address. Write up a lease that allows them to live there, but make it immediately terminable by either party with no notice. (If possible, specify a "space" and maybe label your tractor shed as "Apartment A.") If they ever actually came over with the expectation that they could sleep there, you could just terminate the lease immediately. But it gives them a piece of paper that they can present to DMV, etc. Then charge them a fee for forwarding their mail to a different address. In a world where the government has databases with every mailing center in them, this is the best solution possible, but won't be an option for everyone.

[Papa]

As aside, I found the article pretty funny, considering the efforts across the country to out LEO addresses and salaries in the name of "transparency," and in light of a CLE for judges I "attended" that pushed for protecting such information.

And in light of the bitches in the PA's office here identifying me as "Former Deputy" with my home address visible through the envelopes containing what they erroneously refer to as subpoenas--and send via USPS.

[3corners]

The spiders home is easy to find... and welcomes the unsuspecting victim.

[Country Boy]

I’ve done numerous things over the years in an attempt to minimize my personal info online. Years ago, I spent the better part of two days opting out of numerous public information websites like mylife, 411, anywho, etc. But it’s a bit like playing whack-a-mole because just as you turn off your info at one website, your info pops up somewhere else. I’ve used a PO Box, and it some advantages. Our DOT allows drivers license address changes to be done electronically, so after getting a new license I would change my home address to my work address. There are some decent threads on those topics here at WT. All those things were good steps, but ultimately there’s always another website.

When buying a new house a few years ago, our realtor showed us our city assessors website. You can search by name and it will show all the properties in town owned by that person, those addresses, when they were purchased, how much they were purchased for, and a plethora of other information. You can opt out if you are part of the LE community, but other than that its all right there on the city website. Of course, for every measure there is a countermeasure. One could put their house into a trust and make their home harder to find, but things cycle back to the easy button of doing a simple online search.

So if you can’t control the databases, what do you do? A long while back Gabe advised to have the public part of your social media reflect that you are a hard target. If you search for Gabe Suarez, Brent Yamamoto, or Tim Kennedy, do you seriously want to F with somebody who lifts, fights, and shoots guns? Why not? Because Fear is Indeed the Best Armor.

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?142959-12-PRECEPTS-UPDATED-WITH-A-THIRTEENTH

[7 Mary 3]

We go down this rabbit hole every 2-6 months it seems. Two books instantly come to mind for me and I may or may not own them.

How to disappear and how to be invisible. There is another one out there that's title escapes me but its newer and perhaps more up to date with technology.

The first one is way more geared to getting way out there and is more than +90% of the people who may read this need or are willing to do. How to be invisible is more for the average man but both together are excellent and compliment one another.

Privacy costs money. Privacy is inconvenient. Privacy take vigilance. Privacy is a team effort (if your family isnt onboard it wont work).

Owning property is tricky and costs real money and hassle. I will add that just because you own property doesn't mean that is where you lay down to sleep at night. Just think about that.

All of these things will not keep you from being found in the end if you really have people (serious people with resources) after you. All it does is buy you time to get into a good place until you can pop your head out to deal with what has led you down that path. The more effort and treasure you put into it the larger your time window. One day (or a couple hours) before the mob and TV crew is at your front door vs days later (or more) after you have skipped out to a friends place with a bag of cash, prepaid cards and a burner phone. That's it. A good case study in this is that woman on trial who was Epsteins fixer or whatever.

All the other stuff is fairly manageable with some forethought and planning... and last but not least money. Unfortunately if you have been living where you are for any amount of time and have been giving out all your personal info to Amazon and FedEx etc. its almost a lost cause. So if you can move move. If not start putting things into place for when you can. Moving to a new place? Get all your new accounts ahead of time at the new place with your old DL (if they require one) before its updated and never tell the new places about the move/address change. This is incredibly important with banks etc. because after 9/11 there are some serious laws about money and handling it. Get a UPS box (with old DL) for ALL your mail and get a shelf LLC with a FEIN number and set up ALL the utilities at the new place under that name. Tell the utility company's its part of relocation costs provided by your "new company" which is the shelf LLC and that is all they need to know. It will cost more money for a business account but thats the price you pay. It should go without saying if you get a landline with that never give that number to anyone. Get a passport and the wallet card and use that wherever any of the booger pickers behind a desk ask for an ID. If your DL has the bar code on the back dremmel the shit out of that so no one can swipe it through a card reader and suck off all your info before you can even protest.

Get used to lying to people.

Lots of more info and good stuff in the two books mentioned. Find a bookstore that has them on the shelf or go to one and order them in the store at the service desk with cash or a gift card (bought with cash or from xmas gift) to be picked up at the store later under your middle name or some vague "misspelled by accident" one. Hey the chick with all the face piercings on the computer behind the desk typed it in wrong right?

Oh and all that social media stuff is a big no no. But it can be used for misinformation....

Consider who may look for you and their resources and plan accordingly. Thats all you can do.

7M3

[Sam Spade]

You can also seed the database with bullshit. A surprising number of places are collecting and selling your information. Those discount cards at supermarkets. The little interest cards at realtors, the enter to win whatevers, the dude selling magazine subscriptions. So participate in all that stuff, entering the vacant lot or mega apartment complex of your choice.

[Faramir2]

I've thought about some of this and ultimately decided that at my current stage of life and things I have to do, my best bet is simply to be ready and not draw excessive attention to myself in public or online. I'm no P.I., but when I was a paralegal, before leaving for law school, I did a fair amount of skiptracing to figure out where to get people served with complaints. I got pretty good at it and could track down most people just using the Lexis skiptracing tools. That experience made me confront the fact that, as Gabe said, anyone can be gotten with the right amount of effort and resources. Yeah, someone who fell off the grid using burners, various methods of disguising where they live, etc., could evade me, but given a couple kernels of information, I could cross-reference various resources and figure out where even some evaders were. Just don't be a guy who looks like an easy target.

[7 Mary 3]

In case you think it may be just a .gov person looking for you or Ive done nothing wrong....

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/11/politics/internet-sleuths-january-6-insurrectionists/index.html

https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/sedition-hunters-seek-to-identify-participants-in-jan-6-capitol-attack/2693284/

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/18/1028527768/the-fbi-keeps-using-clues-from-volunteer-sleuths-to-find-the-jan-6-capitol-riote

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2021-capitol-riot-sedition-hunters/

The Stasi would be proud.

7M3

[Cacti Rat]

Some states have a confidential address services that are available to shield people/families that have been the victims of domestic violence, sexual assault or stalking. Arizona has one of these programs. (https://azsos.gov/services/acp) The program provides enrolled members to legally use a substitute address to thwart public access look-ups. It sounds like a low level witness protection program.

The thing is that most people who live stable lives won't find themselves in one of these categories. But, if you can play the system.:scratchchin:

[Gabriel Suarez]

If you need permission to use a mail drop or business as your address....

[LawDog]

Coming back with a few more thoughts.

You can't hide from the NSA. If the big boys want you, they'll find you. But you probably aren't hiding from them. So who are you hiding from? I would rather the local police not know where to find me. They can call or write anytime, but I don't want them on my doorstep. I'm not politically active in a way that invites being "doxed," but that will be a concern for many people here. So I want to keep the Antifa crowd from being able to locate me. Given what I do, I want to keep disgruntled party opponents from finding me. And, though it seems rude to say, I don't really want my clients to know where I live. The level of difficulty drops significantly when you consider these last subjects.

The biggest threat is social media. If you are going to be outed, you're most likely to out yourself. But other people will do it to you, too. Most people worry about their mother posting photos of them in their adolescent years. But a greater concern is someone posting a photo with you outside of your home, and allowing geolocation.

Your car is searchable and trackable. If someone breaks into your car, will they find an insurance card with your address on it? Scrub your ride of information. But what if they slap a GPS tracker onto your car? Realistically they'll find you that way. Even if they couldn't find you in an online database, and you covered your tracks well, they'll still be able to follow you home with a tracker. Accept that fact and have a different plan for how to deal with that person.

A reasonable-but-imperfect plan is still worth implementing. The fact that you can't entirely disappear doesn't mean that you shouldn't do things to lower your profile. Can you get got? Sure. But that doesn't mean that you give up. I have solid locks on my doors, even though I know that a large enough battering ram will still break through them. Take the steps that seem reasonable to you. If the costs get too high for you, then accept that you can't do everything. Just do what you can.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Coming back with a few more thoughts.

You can't hide from the NSA. If the big boys want you, they'll find you. But you probably aren't hiding from them. So who are you hiding from? I would rather the local police not know where to find me. They can call or write anytime, but I don't want them on my doorstep. I'm not politically active in a way that invites being "doxed," but that will be a concern for many people here. So I want to keep the Antifa crowd from being able to locate me. Given what I do, I want to keep disgruntled party opponents from finding me. And, though it seems rude to say, I don't really want my clients to know where I live. The level of difficulty drops significantly when you consider these last subjects.

The biggest threat is social media. If you are going to be outed, you're most likely to out yourself. But other people will do it to you, too. Most people worry about their mother posting photos of them in their adolescent years. But a greater concern is someone posting a photo with you outside of your home, and allowing geolocation.

Your car is searchable and trackable. If someone breaks into your car, will they find an insurance card with your address on it? Scrub your ride of information. But what if they slap a GPS tracker onto your car? Realistically they'll find you that way. Even if they couldn't find you in an online database, and you covered your tracks well, they'll still be able to follow you home with a tracker. Accept that fact and have a different plan for how to deal with that person.

A reasonable-but-imperfect plan is still worth implementing. The fact that you can't entirely disappear doesn't mean that you shouldn't do things to lower your profile. Can you get got? Sure. But that doesn't mean that you give up. I have solid locks on my doors, even though I know that a large enough battering ram will still break through them. Take the steps that seem reasonable to you. If the costs get too high for you, then accept that you can't do everything. Just do what you can.


And be seen around your property armed...answer the door armed. Project the image. ANTIFA should wonder deeply if you are worth the cost...even after they locate you. Notbthis town...not this shop...not this guy.

The official guys...NSA, FBI, etc.? First off you wont hide from them. Second of all they really dont care about you. Third of all...if you think #2 is false, WTF are you doing on a public forum?

[jlwilliams]

Another thing to add here. This topic is something that people tend to think of in unrealistic terms. The whole idea reeks of cheesy spy fiction when the reality is that the demographic most likely to actually go off grid is battered women. That happens all the time. The "information age" has made it harder to really hide where someone is but it can still be done. They do it but their motivation is different and the methods they use aren't really analogous to most of us here.

Years ago my mother worked at a woman's resource center that helped a lot of young women many with kids and more than a few with dangerous psychopaths actively trying to find them. That was decades ago and I'm sure the methods those groups today use to hide people's whereabouts are different. I can't imagine they don't still deal with the same issues.

They are skinning a different cat than the OP asked about, but if one really needed to know how to hide the physical location of someone as best as can be practically done, I'd ask someone in that line of social aid for advice.

Fact is, I don't have good anonymity at all. I use my real name and anyone could figure out where I live and work. Followup fact, no one cares who I am so it's a non issue.

[Redbug]

Going along with what Jlwilliams said...you will be found one way or another. But...realizing the real issue is personal security. You can only do so much about the internet. I guess most people live in an open housing development where anyone can walk across the lawn and knock on your door. Wide open for intruders. I see it with all sorts of people in the limelight and ignorant about security. That kind of environment has always bothered me. I suggest a more suburban, (country), environment where you have control over your environment. Fenced, gated, signage, cameras, dogs, etc. I shoot the guns now and again just to let people around know I am here.

[WinstonSmith]

This is the best current book on this topic:

Extreme Privacy: What It Takes to Disappear https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094LDWKGZ/

The previous best book (now a little dated, doesn’t deal with the tech aspects as much):

How to Be Invisible: Protect Your Home, Your Children, Your Assets, and Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250010454/

[Gabriel Suarez]

Honestly guys...other than Witsec level stuff...you can be found. So...some of the stuff I did back in the day...funny how none relies on tech.

Get a mail drop. Then another and a third one. Diff cities. Keep your legends seperate.
Procure an extra legal false ID. Not hard but you wont get one at church. Dont use these to commit an actual crime and nobody will care.

Get a trust done...one. that doesnt use your actual name. For example...The Prescott Rainbow Trust. You and yours are trustees and EVERYTHING you own is there.

Wont stop anyone from suing if they try hard enough, but it will give you sufficient warning to conceal or move assets from common view.

[Gabriel Suarez]

And again...even ANTIFA is not stupid...nor the most arrogant lawyer. If they really believe that you are capable of unspeakable deeds, the number of people that will deselect you increases.

[Oscar01]

A reasonable-but-imperfect plan is still worth implementing. The fact that you can't entirely disappear doesn't mean that you shouldn't do things to lower your profile. Can you get got? Sure. But that doesn't mean that you give up. I have solid locks on my doors, even though I know that a large enough battering ram will still break through them. Take the steps that seem reasonable to you. If the costs get too high for you, then accept that you can't do everything. Just do what you can.


+1 this.


You're not going to completely disappear but lowering your profile does make it harder for low level stuff like fraud or burglary at home while on vacation. Otherwise use the gift of fear.





Wont stop anyone from suing if they try hard enough, but it will give you sufficient warning to conceal or move assets from common view.


Any chance of briefly discussing this at the next KWTL class? I think it'd fit quite nicely and carries more weight coming from an affluent pirate...

[BigEd63]

Fear works well.
For example: I found out the neighbors delinquent dope head grandkids were stealing everything not nailed down out here in the country. From everyone else but me.
I found this out from a neighbor at the time when he asked if I had been missing anything.

[Gabriel Suarez]

+1 this.


You're not going to completely disappear but lowering your profile does make it harder for low level stuff like fraud or burglary at home while on vacation. Otherwise use the gift of fear.





Any chance of briefly discussing this at the next KWTL class? I think it'd fit quite nicely and carries more weight coming from an affluent pirate...


That is much more involved topic than will fit therein.

[Warped Mindless]

For most people, using a VPN, a PO Box (or virtual address service), and buying things with a trust, along with some common sense will be plenty enough.

That said, If one needed a legit new identity for a short time period, finding a homeless guy with a passing resemblance to you and stealing or buying his ID cards can work when done right. Of course, this method has its own set of problems.

[Papa]

Like outstanding warrants.

[Sharkbite]

And be seen around your property armed...answer the door armed. Project the image. ANTIFA should wonder deeply if you are worth the cost...even after they locate you. Notbthis town...not this shop...not this guy.

The official guys...NSA, FBI, etc.? First off you wont hide from them. Second of all they really dont care about you. Third of all...if you think #2 is false, WTF are you doing on a public forum?

Sounds eerily familiar... like this guy I know who mows his grass wearing an M-7 tanker holster and Glock 34. A wayward Uber driver was scared shitless when she pulled in the driveway and finally looked up from her phone to see this shaven-headed hooligan peering at her through her drivers window. Wrong address, smiles,but subtle message sent. This individual somehow doesn't get the door bell rung at the residence in question. Or so I heard.

[Allen]

This is the best current book on this topic:

Extreme Privacy: What It Takes to Disappear https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094LDWKGZ/


If you buy the book Bazzell has specific pages for documentation that he keeps up to date here:
https://inteltechniques.com/links.html

[jlwilliams]

Seen elsewhere: "The fourth little piggy built his house of skulls. Not very structural but it sends a message."