LIFE IS FRAGILE - BOURDAIN

[Gabriel Suarez]

I heard it when Awerbuck shot himself after being given a diagnosis of terminal cancer. And heard it after Bourdain's exit from the stage. Everyone is an expert on the matter until they are the ones facing unfaceable shit. In any case...I enjoyed Anthony Bourdain's shows as they were refined yet not too much...and they had an international flair that only those who venture from the shire would understand. When I heard he was into JuJitsu, I liked hm even more.

Yes he killed himself. But as the sage commented..."There but for the grace of God..."

We all have demons and darkness. And not all of us can submit them..and then for how long.

Here is an interesting collection of posts attributed to him.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/anthony-bourdain-jiujitsu-secret-reddit-posts-1268801/ (https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/anthony-bourdain-jiujitsu-secret-reddit-posts-1268801/)

[Marco Innocenti]

To die as they lived.

On their own terms, by their own choices.

Though I may sometimes judge, what I actually seek is some understanding.

Not only of their decisions, but of how they may represent and expose my own fears and frailties.

We strive to live as Lions.
And we hope to die as Kings, sword in hand and honored by our fellow Warriors.

[LawDog]

He was a fascinating man.

For better or worse, I’ve spent a lot of time with addicts, and he definitely was one. These days, the idea of using drugs to open your mind has fallen out of fashion. But I think there is something to it. There is something in that altered consciousness that allows you to view life from a different vantage point. Addicts often have unique and interesting ideas. And the addicts who kick the drugs and replace it with something more productive (exercise, work, art, jujitsu) often go far.

He was the skinniest glutton I could ever envision, but that seemed to be the sin that tormented him. He just had no portion control. Given his inability to regulate his food or alcohol consumption, I’m surprised he never overdosed when he was using heroin. (If you actually look through the Bible to see what God says about alcohol, you’ll find that on most occasions that we are warned about alcohol, we are also warned about gluttony. The two things are tied together. But you’ll never hear a sermon about gluttony in a Baptist church.)

His gift with words is almost unparalleled. While he never smuggled guns to a rebel faction, he got as close to being Hemingway as anyone in his generation. I hope he found salvation by the end. I hope he’s at peace.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Hemmingway...yes indeed. And I will argue that choosing your own end doesn't cancel our salvation...regardless of what the clergy may say.

[Knowledge]

We’ll see, talk to, and learn from Samson on the other side. But seriously brothers, finish the damn job you have been given. Literally for Christ’s sake. Mission first!

[Gabriel Suarez]

In Awerbuck's boots...faced with a slow debilitating end, I would have done the same.

[Knowledge]

I said what I said. I ain’t arguing. People have to choose what they choose.

[Medvetz63]

Hemmingway...yes indeed. And I will argue that choosing your own end doesn't cancel our salvation...regardless of what the clergy may say.

You’re 100% correct, suicide does NOT cancel salvation once it’s attained.
Deliberately sinning after salvation can cause loss of blessings and rewards, but not the loss of salvation, because it’s a free, permanent gift that’s not dependent upon works.

[Ragsbo]

One can never know the demons another is fighting and what they think they must do to win,

[Gabriel Suarez]

One can never know the demons another is fighting and what they think they must do to win,


Indeed. Easy to criticize the way a man walks...until you put on his boots

[jmoore]

In Awerbuck's boots...faced with a slow debilitating end, I would have done the same.

My father made it through both Saipan and Tarawa, as well as several decades stateside following the war.
However, his battles with three different types of cancer was just more than that ol Devil Dog could deal with.
If I ever find myself in a similar position, I hope I have the courage and resolve that he did. Hoo Rah Devil Dog!

geezer john

[Gunstore Commando]

We got called to a firearm suicide a couple of years ago. Nothing for us to do. But later we got the backstory from people who knew the guy, and we were all like "well, brother, if Doc had given us a prognosis like you got, we probably would have done the same thing". He wasn't a punk. He fought, long and hard, for a long time. Sometimes the smart thing to do is tap out so you don't take any more damage.

[LV_MD]

As a physician, I can tell you that there are much worse situations than death......

[Chainsaw76]

I was taught growing up that suicide would send one to hell. I was taught a few other things that found to be in error. Thanks to the Grace of God,I have never had to face the things these and other men and women had to face.I am NOT their judge and will make no effort towards that.

Old training is hard to break and sometimes even question. Would some of you more biblically educated gents point me toward some scripture that I might study?

jim

[Knowledge]

I was taught growing up that suicide would send one to hell. I was taught a few other things that found to be in error. Thanks to the Grace of God,I have never had to face the things these and other men and women had to face.I am NOT their judge and will make no effort towards that.

Old training is hard to break and sometimes even question. Would some of you more biblically educated gents point me toward some scripture that I might study?

jim

It isn't really discussed directly in Scripture IMO. I think people like to force their theology on topics, make them fit, and declare it as truth, at least in my experience. I do know we have the opportunity to do a lot of things on this earth and get the opportunity to walk with God while doing them. Some of those things are incredibly great and others feel like walking through hell. I've learned a lot doing some of both.

[Badger]

I’m going to agree with many on here and say I understand why some choose to leave this world on their own terms. We treat our pets better than than we do many with terminal illness. While I believe in fighting for your life, doing everything reasonably possible to get help, etc., some times it’s important when to know it’s your turn to leave the party.

[Medvetz63]

https://youtu.be/74oqr_iH7Nw
I was taught growing up that suicide would send one to hell. I was taught a few other things that found to be in error. Thanks to the Grace of God,I have never had to face the things these and other men and women had to face.I am NOT their judge and will make no effort towards that.

Old training is hard to break and sometimes even question. Would some of you more biblically educated gents point me toward some scripture that I might study?

jim

WHEN THE SAVED COMMIT SUICIDE:

https://youtu.be/74oqr_iH7Nw

[Bold]

We treat our pets better than than we do many with terminal illness.

One thing that has stuck with me from my EMS days is the number of elderly people who would quite casually (and in ignorance of our equipment and our legal situation) ask for lethal injections during smalltalk on non-emergency transports to or from the hospital.


One lady put it almost exactly like you (roughly translated from German): "They would already have had mercy on any dog, but as a human I must endure all of this".

[Gabriel Suarez]

Read about Samson's end. The clergy have their own agenda...all of them do.

[Knowledge]

Read about Samson's end. The clergy have their own agenda...all of them do.
Samson went out killing a lot of evil people. Good example to follow if choosing this course of action. Christ himself went out saving a lot of people. Good example to follow if choosing this course of action.

[RedLeg0811]

After Jesse died many people were worried about me knocking myself off as I blamed myself. I just can't stop the hurt that way. Too many people that are already hurting would be hurt even more and I can't do that to them. I also have that Roman Catholic up bringing and in the back of my head I think if I did I would not get to see my son. Which is funny because I have had several friends who had committed suicide and I don't believe they are in hell.

I am usually a glass half full type of guy. In 08 I had 7 operations and spent about 3 months total in the hospital. I almost died several times. I also had to have another two surgeries in 17 and 18. People go how horrible, but I look at it as I am alive, I am all hooked up, other that some shitty scars I am doing pretty good. Yondering saw me and know what ruff shape I was in. I can look at this and see positives.

I can't see any positives losing our son. My soul just hurts a lot. I am lucky I have a great wife and our relationship is strong, good friends, and a huge support group. I think what now God? What do you have in store for us? Taking myself out is just not one of those options Nor would Jesse want that either.

I am sorry so many post I have tied back to my loss. It is just every little thing reminds me of him.

[Jon Payne]

After Jesse died many people were worried about me knocking myself off as I blamed myself. I just can't stop the hurt that way. Too many people that are already hurting would be hurt even more and I can't do that to them. I also have that Roman Catholic up bringing and in the back of my head I think if I did I would not get to see my son. Which is funny because I have had several friends who had committed suicide and I don't believe they are in hell.

I am usually a glass half full type of guy. In 08 I had 7 operations and spent about 3 months total in the hospital. I almost died several times. I also had to have another two surgeries in 17 and 18. People go how horrible, but I look at it as I am alive, I am all hooked up, other that some shitty scars I am doing pretty good. Yondering saw me and know what ruff shape I was in. I can look at this and see positives.

I can't see any positives losing our son. My soul just hurts a lot. I am lucky I have a great wife and our relationship is strong, good friends, and a huge support group. I think what now God? What do you have in store for us? Taking myself out is just not one of those options Nor would Jesse want that either.

I am sorry so many post I have tied back to my loss. It is just every little thing reminds me of him.

Never be sorry for sharing your loss and your pain. Many on here listened to me and helped me. Gabe leading the way. The loss will always be there, but the bad memories will be replaced with the fondest of times. I dwell on the things that made Bliss such a special angel, but it’s taken time to do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gabriel Suarez]

We all have demons. They dont define us...but they do form a part of who we are. I have never shared mine. They need to be kept in their boxes. Someone once said, "Dont judge how a man walks until you have worn his boots". That has to be kept in mind here from all of us...and FOR all of us.

The other point is that we all have a breaking point. Some might reach that while others won't. And what happens when that point is reached depends on each man's resources or choices.

The only thing I will say...as one who has seen plenty of death and cried plenty of tears. Never say never.

[Brent Yamamoto]

We all have demons. They dont define us...but they do form a part of who we are. I have never shared mine. They need to be kept in their boxes. Someone once said, "Dont judge how a man walks until you have worn his boots". That has to be kept in mind here from all of us...and FOR all of us.

The other point is that we all have a breaking point. Some might reach that while others won't. And what happens when that point is reached depends on each man's resources or choices.

The only thing I will say...as one who has seen plenty of death and cried plenty of tears. Never say never.

I run in a few different circles, a few of which have more than a passing familiarity with violence.

One thing that strikes me comparing those circles... in some there is a distinct feeling of "broken-ness". They deal with their brokenness and keep moving on, but there's a definite feeling of wallowing in the darkness and letting it define them.

We all have darkness, pain, and yes, never say never. We can all be pulled down by it, and at times, we are.

But there's a difference between living, and dwelling.

I try not to judge, because indeed I have not walked in any one's shoes but my own.

[cmcampbell]

Read about Samson's end. The clergy have their own agenda...all of them do.


I believe that the Catholic church making suicide a major sin is all about control of people.

Someone being tortured/ abused etc.... by the local head thug/baron/communist/nazi may want to opt out by suicide.

If they are brainwashed into thinking that this ruins their afterlife they are more likely to put up with more torture and abuse.


I believe that most times suicide is a long term solution to a short term solvable problem, but there are times I would not judge one for opting out.

I think the Vikings thought of how to meet death has some logic.

[Gabriel Suarez]

I think the Vikings thought of how to meet death has some logic.

Indeed

[45Smashemflat]

Even if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...

[Gabriel Suarez]

So lets bring it back around. Life is a gift and everyday is filled with wonder and beauty. That is my view. I find pleasure in the smallesr and simplest things. But that is not the case for everyone. We have all seen ugliness and felt its sting...but as I noted...that must not define us nor must we be defeated by it.

But if we cannot say that everyday is filled with beauty and promise and pleasure...and we cannot change that...ever. Then the Samson concept is not out of the realm of possibilities. Still...I do wish Bourdain could have found a way.

[Chainsaw76]

Without a doubt, Samson and the folks covered by ; Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for another, would not end up in hell for suicide.

Still studying the matter.

[WinstonSmith]

I understand Bourdain suppressed his chemical addictions with a jiu jitsu addiction, at least for a time …

[BillyOblivion]

It isn't really discussed directly in Scripture IMO. I think people like to force their theology on topics, make them fit, and declare it as truth,

Not to derail things, but the Christian attitudes towards suicide are largely from the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). The scriptural basis does seem a little thin, but the RCC has this notion (put loosely) that God can speak through The Pope on some issues, so they don't really need a scriptural basis for everything.

Kinda handy that.

This may provide a bit more light on the RCC's position: https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1428&context=ndjlepp

I'm a bit divided on the subject. I think one should bear their burden as long as they can. But we all know that "as long as you can" is a combination of physical, mental and spiritual.

Being in constant discomfort is very, very sapping. You take someone like Awerbuck who lived a physical life and had to have a fairly high level of pain just from old injuries (I have those, and I didn't live the life some of y'all did), and now tell him that for the rest of his life things are going to get worse, with no relief, and only death at the end, and that for that whole time you'll be spending what you worked a lifetime to accumulate?

We know so much more about the brain and the mind than our forefathers. We can "see" inside the brain in some ways, and see the impact of genetic predispositions on things like dopamine and serotonin production and uptake, we have the ability (fMRI) to watch the brain action at a gross level. Much of it is still a mystery, but we know that "choice" is often a very tenuous thing. It's still a choice, but the options to choose from narrow in many ways.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Any group can claim their leader speaks for God. When I see that all I see is another extremist in a mandress leading other extremists. Sorry kids. That said...I have yet to meet a Catholic that actually believes the Pope speaks for anyone divine.

There are also plenty of...as brother Sua Sponte called them...Christian Taliban. They make the Pope seem like an international playboy by comparison. At my place in life I have no room nor tolerance for extremists...specially religious ones.


.

[jesselp]

Life is indeed fragile - I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

On November 11, my best friend since middle school was killed when his Cessna 172 crashed killing him and his flight instructor.

Glen was on the top of the world at the time of his death. Within the past 18 months he had sold his company, written a book, and - believe it or not - flown to the edge of space on a Blue Origin rocket with William Shatner sitting next to him.

And now he is gone.

I'm not going to lie. Sometimes life is unfair and just sucks. I'm not sad for glen - he accomplished everything he ever set out to do and then some. I'm sad for the rest of us who don't get to spend time with him anymore.

It's been a very rough few weeks.

[62-10]

Life is indeed fragile - I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

On November 11, my best friend since middle school was killed when his Cessna 172 crashed killing him and his flight instructor.

Glen was on the top of the world at the time of his death. Within the past 18 months he had sold his company, written a book, and - believe it or not - flown to the edge of space on a Blue Origin rocket with William Shatner sitting next to him.

And now he is gone.

I'm not going to lie. Sometimes life is unfair and just sucks. I'm not sad for glen - he accomplished everything he ever set out to do and then some. I'm sad for the rest of us who don't get to spend time with him anymore.

It's been a very rough few weeks.

Sorry about your friend. That said, there are worse ways to go.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Sorry about your friend. That said, there are worse ways to go.

And perhaps that is the theme here. Blessed are those who get a good way...but also those who get to choose.

[jesselp]

And perhaps that is the theme here. Blessed are those who get a good way...but also those who get to choose.

Agreed. Every one who knew Glen could not imagine him slowly dying of a prolonged illness. This was the right way for him to go - just way too soon.

[Francisp]

Agreed. Every one who knew Glen could not imagine him slowly dying of a prolonged illness. This was the right way for him to go - just way too soon.
I am sorry for the loss of your friend Glen de vries. I hike the area he crashed here in New Jersey all the time.

[BillyOblivion]

Any group can claim their leader speaks for God.

Most of them do claim that. My understanding of the RCC is that it's a little more nuanced than that.

And I think I've been clear enough in the past where I stand on the whole church issue. My only point in bringing that up is that until the Great Schism there was only the RCC (not quite perfectly true but close enough) and until Martin Luther Rome was the center of Christian thought, and much like Protestant Christianity is the substrate for Western European thought, Catholic Philosophy was the underpinnings of Protestant Christianity.

I should have been more straightforward in that post. The point I was trying to get across was that not everything in Christianity is supported directly from the bible because for around a thousand years the Pope could speak ex-cathedra and was considered to be speaking with God's authority. There's a big different between Theology and Faith.



When I see that all I see is another extremist in a mandress leading other extremists. Sorry kids. That said...I have yet to meet a Catholic that actually believes the Pope speaks for anyone divine.

My mother's family has a few. Of course they're confused about a lot of things.


There are also plenty of...as brother Sua Sponte called them...Christian Taliban. They make the Pope seem like an international playboy by comparison.

I suspect that a lot of these extremists--Islam, Christian, Communist, whatever, are mentally ill and wrap themselves in their religion to excuse their behavior.

[jesselp]

I am sorry for the loss of your friend Glen de vries. I hike the area he crashed here in New Jersey all the time.

Thank you.

[45Smashemflat]

Good discussion. As has been noted, sometimes the “why” is obvious. Sometimes it’s not.

[SqueeDAB]

I’ve lost a few friends to suicide. At their funerals, I was fascinated by how many people were suddenly experts on life and death.

We lost a few brothers here over the years.

I’ve worked so many death scenes they all bleed together. I even managed to prevent a few; other times, I got there 10 seconds too late, heard the pop, saw the flash, and saw blood and grey matter spray down a dashboard.

Sometime I thought the person was an asshole. At other times, I “got it”.
Sometimes, it can be selfish. Sometimes, it hurts knowing that someone you loved opted out early because of a situation that might have been overcome. At other times…who’d want to spend months in agonizing physical pain, bankrupting the family to get a few extra months? Maybe.

There’s something to be said about making your death your last active decision (Dostoevsky said it much better than I can).

Bourdain is one of those guys who’s death left the world with a little less color.

And if you have a feeling about a friend, family member, talk to them. Sometimes a person knowing that another wants him to be alive is all that keeps a person from going over that ledge.

[WraithWolf]

Bourdain really sparked my love of world foods. Him and Andrew Zimmern with Bizarre Foods. I keep my Discovery+ Subscription to keep most of Bourdain's Excellent No Reservations Show, as well as Zimmern's many travel/cooking shows. Live Humbly, Share Heartedly, Learn Humongous. Watching Zimmern's interview on FOX when Bourdain passed was heartbreaking. They were such great friends. Both were and are ready to push their comfort zone to get food, and both support firearms, even using some unconventional arms to hunt with on shows. Zimmern hunted with an SBS overseas, Bourdain went so far as to grill out with JMAC Customs when CNN when pushing alot of Gun Control BS, to show people how awesome AK's can be, while enjoying a meal with cool people they all foraged/hunted together.

“Maybe that’s enlightenment enough: to know that there is no final resting place of the mind; no moment of smug clarity. Perhaps wisdom...is realizing how small I am, and unwise, and how far I have yet to go.”
“No one understands and appreciates the American Dream of hard work leading to material rewards better than a non-American.”
“Travel isn’t always pretty. It isn’t always comfortable. Sometimes it hurts, it even breaks your heart. But that’s okay. The journey changes you; it should change you. It leaves marks on your memory, on your consciousness, on your heart, and on your body. You take something with you. Hopefully, you leave something good behind.”

“I've long believed that good food, good eating, is all about risk. Whether we're talking about unpasteurized Stilton, raw oysters or working for organized crime 'associates,' food, for me, has always been an adventure”
(Eat Salo, Fish and Cut Raw Sushi, Forage for Amanita Muscaria Mushrooms and embrace your Viking Roots and great sleep)

“We know, for instance, that there is a direct, inverse relationship between frequency of family meals and social problems. Bluntly stated, members of families who eat together regularly are statistically less likely to stick up liquor stores, blow up meth labs, give birth to crack babies, commit suicide, or make donkey porn. If Little Timmy had just had more meatloaf, he might not have grown up to fill chest freezers with Cub Scout parts.”
(He had alot of personal issues in relationships due to his traveling from Family. This always was a red flag line from him to me, more so after the fact of his passing. Men and Women here, choose your partners carefully and make sure they always your rock no matter how far.)



If It Looks Good, Eat It. -Andrew Zimmern

[WraithWolf]

Loosing someone you know and love to suicide, theres no words. Reach out to those you think may be struggling. If a friend needs to talk, make time for them. People may be fighting harder to conceal signs of suicidal ideation than they are fighting to overcome them. If you bridge that gap with someone, they are more than likely to be honest with you if they trust you. You can then help build them up defenses that are easier to fight than tearing it all down. Be an open ear and welcoming arms to everyone you care about. Be each others rocks and fortresses when they have no one else.

[Gunstore Commando]

Forage for Amanita Muscaria Mushrooms

Guys, do me a favor -- unless you learned this stuff from your Grandma who spent her whole life foraging for mushrooms exactly where you are at right now, please don't eat Amanita mushrooms.