Snake shot....

[Travlin]

I was torn where to ask this but this seems just right.

We will be signing on some wooded foothill property in the southern mountains. I understand from my agent "the copperheads have a real attitude problem", and then there are the rattlers. I am hoping to be moved by the snow up here next fall, so I will be in the brush all summer.

I think snake shot might be in order. Across the years I remember several discussions on this but I couldn't find anything. What are you guys using, .38 would work but I seem to remember someone was running some in a glock?

What are you guys running? I need to set up a couple of backyard guns.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Tac-14

[barnetmill]

I was torn where to ask this but this seems just right.

We will be signing on some wooded foothill property in the southern mountains. I understand from my agent "the copperheads have a real attitude problem", and then there are the rattlers. I am hoping to be moved by the snow up here next fall, so I will be in the brush all summer.

I think snake shot might be in order. Across the years I remember several discussions on this but I couldn't find anything. What are you guys using, .38 would work but I seem to remember someone was running some in a glock?

What are you guys running? I need to set up a couple of backyard guns.
cheap foreign made stainless .38 5 shot 3 inch barrel stainless with usually hammer over an empty chamber. Carried in pants pocket in a fabric holster other pocket has pruning shears. The constant immersion in sweat over the last 7 years since I have retired has some rust on it. Does not harm the functionality of the gun. Still carry.a full size 9 with +P+ for 2 and 4-legged critters.
At a distance of about 10-13 ft fire once to stun it and get closer for a more concentrated pattern on the head. Remove snake. If I see a fireant mound handy drop it there for disposal. Ants love fresh snake.


60997

Normally it is water moccasins like the one killed below. Last fall a rattler of some sort was seen on the property next door.

60998

[Travlin]

Tac-14

Yes.

I'm waiting for the new ones, if you haven't popped smoke you will get it.

[Travlin]

Barnetmill,
I knew you deal with this. Honestly, I hadn't thought of the knockoff. I was thinking of using some stainless SW I have, at least short term if .38 is the answer.

[SheepDog68]

I grew up in a snake heavy part of the country. Most of the time spent as a child in the woods and swamp was with a stick and a machete which is a very low key way to sort out snakes. Later I’d be on the tractor with a 12 gauge across my lap so yeah I’ve shot snakes, but mostly have sent them on with a shovel or a walking stick oh and once with a fishing pole!
They make several handguns that do the 410 shells and I might consider that if I wanted to shoot them and didn’t want a regular shotgun.

Oh some reloaders make up their own in some of the common large revolver options, but I haven’t been around that in years and would have to research it!

SD

[P.D.]

.38 revolver works for me. Semi-autos in my experience can have FTF problems with snake shot cartridges

[Bill Bond]

I use a S&W .22 revolver with CCI snake shot for rattlesnakes.
Just to be sure I always double tap them.

[barnetmill]

Yes.

I'm waiting for the new ones, if you haven't popped smoke you will get it.


What you use, it should instantly be at hand. A tac-14 12 ga will neutralize for sure any snake and would be good gun for tractor. When on foot, my hands are very apt to be occupied with chain saw, ax, or maybe i am using a push mower to get to get places my bush hog will not get into. If you see a snake you want to draw and kill it right there on the spot, because it if gets away, no telling when it turns up again.
A dangerous snake is not a joke in heavy cover. Some years ago there was discussion here and someone with emergency room experience on pit viper bites spoke of the cost of treating a water moccasin bite, it was sobering.
Probably an ideal snake gun might be an old charter arms 5 shot 44 spl. Holds more than a .38. Perhaps some of the derringers might do the trick. Some people that I know really likr .22 magnum shot loads
I use to to beat snakes with a club-implement or chop with a machete/bush ax. While rare it is water moccasins have been known to attack. Especially if they get pissed off and even chase their tormentors.
I approach with hand gun and note the demeanor of the snake. Normally if they coiled, they are perfect for shot rounds. At a distance aim at the head and the pattern will hit the body also. At a distance I am not sure what sort of penetration I am getting on them since they have thick and touch skin. But eventually get close and make sure the head gets macerated.
I remember one snake that one of the dogs discovered. She jumped immediately out of the way. Snake when seeing a 4-legged critter often will stand literally on their tail and face the dog or fox down. I only had my on me 9 then and shot it right through its gaping mouth and also severed the head. The snake did not even twitch after that damage and was stone dead without any reflex.

https://tongs.com/wp-content/uploads/AVRI-Black-Spot.jpg

[barnetmill]

I grew up in a snake heavy part of the country. Most of the time spent as a child in the woods and swamp was with a stick and a machete which is a very low key way to sort out snakes. Later I’d be on the tractor with a 12 gauge across my lap so yeah I’ve shot snakes, but mostly have sent them on with a shovel or a walking stick oh and once with a fishing pole!
They make several handguns that do the 410 shells and I might consider that if I wanted to shoot them and didn’t want a regular shotgun.

Oh some reloaders make up their own in some of the common large revolver options, but I haven’t been around that in years and would have to research it!

SD


There are 44 shot loads out and one can also buy those shot capsules reloading and do some handloading, but the .38 does the job, I often shoot it 2-3 times to be sure. If I know that i was entering an area with multiple snakes, and if i do not want to pack a shotgun, than a .44 or .45 caliber pistol might be the ticket.

[charliemike1]

I have a little J frame 357. 38 snake shot does the trick 100% within 3yds on copperheads, I don't know about larger snakes. If you can hit a quarter at 5 you shouldn't need any special ammo. I use my G23 just fine on copperheads.

[Ragsbo]

Here is what I have experienced with shotshells. 22 are just about worthless. Tried to shoot rats with them and the rats laughed! Used 38/357 shotshells and had to get close to them. They usually won't cycle a semi auto.

[hunterjoe]

I’ve used .38 and a S&W Governor loaded with 410 #6. I now prefer the Tac-14. Don’t have to get as close!

[BigEd63]

I don't have much faith anymore in CCI Shot Shells. At least not in a real short barrel like my 442.
Damn capsule didn't fragment at all and punched a hole through one side of an interior door, after bouncing up from the floor. Field mouse in house and the freaking thing pissed me off.

So I agree on the TAC-14 or similar.

I'd also ponder the S&W Governor or yes I'll say it Taurus Judge- Solely as a snake schwacker and nothing else.

I've considered, when they were cheap and plentiful, a NEF/H&R single shot and getting a pistol grip and form 1'ing it into a 20ga or 12ga snake pistol. Although I've never been happy about a single shot for defense from any sort of snake; no legs or two.

[Travlin]

Good information, honestly I haven't thought about a 410 pistol. I would feel better with something like that for my wife until I know she's solid. I'm not sure how she will shoot when there is screaming going on. (She needs to lose her thing about snakes) I'll have to see what I can find.

Thanks guys. I just HATE having to buy gun stuff.

[SheepDog68]

Bond Arms out of Texas makes some 45/410s specially dedicated as snake medicine! I think anything they make with a 3.5” barrel or longer will take both 410 shell lengths.

SD

[M1A's r Best]

Ruger stainless speed six in .357 with a 2&3/4" barrel.

I load my own snake shells. CCI/Speer sells the shot capsules. Box of the capsules has some load data on papers in the box. Never had a capsule break seating it into the case or crimping it.

I like 7&1/2s for the shot. A lot less shot (thinner pattern) than the "dust" the factory stuff is loaded with, but man, it goes clean through top to bottom. Only time I've killed copperheads I happened to be damn near within arm's reach of them when I saw them. Only killed two but bother were one shot kills. One never even twitched while the other did some twisting before it was still.

[Papa]

Ruger stainless speed six in .357 with a 2 3/4" barrel.

I load my own snake shells. CCI/Speer sells the shot capsules. Box of the capsules has some load data on papers in the box. Never had a capsule break seating it into the case or crimping it.

I like 7 1/2s for the shot. A lot less shot (thinner pattern) than the "dust" the factory stuff is loaded with, but man, it goes clean through top to bottom. Only time I've killed copperheads I happened to be damn near within arm's reach of them when I saw them. Only killed two but both were one shot kills. One never even twitched while the other did some twisting before it was still.

61000

'Cause I like pictures, and the classic lines of the item in particular.

No poisonous snakes this side of the mountains. I keep a few ancient CCI snake loads for when I head east, and a similar Ruger with an OEM spurless hammer to shoot 'em out of.

[Eldora]

I wear a Taurus 4" stainless .22LR when out and about here on the farm. I use the CCI shot and never had a problem dispatching a snake of any size. Of course, the average range is 5-10 feet. I've used the .38 stuff in my Ruger GP100, too, but it's heavier than the little Taurus.

[M1A's r Best]

Sorry, should have posted the picture of my Speed Six. Sure which Ruger hadn't stop making them. If you've never torn one down - completely - you would be amazed at how quick and easy you can pull the guts out of the frame, clean it up, lube and reinstall all those parts.

Here it is. Purchased in about 1982/83 and then I removed the spur so I could carry it as a back up in my right duty coat pocket with the two speed loaders in my left duty coat pocket. Also carried it every time I went fishing due to the number of copperheads/rattlesnakes along those rocky/brushy banks of the New and Gauley Rivers. Never killed a snake with it while fishing. Also carried it while groundhog hunting as I like to sneak up on them and that meant crawling through the weeds/brush along the fence lines, creeks, woods edge around the fields. Figured if I ran across a snake it would be close up when I saw it and that's the way it happened.

https://i.imgur.com/5dueYVil.jpg?1

[Papa]

Sorry, should have posted the picture of my Speed Six. Sure which Ruger hadn't stop making them. If you've never torn one down - completely - you would be amazed at how quick and easy you can pull the guts out of the frame, clean it up, lube and reinstall all those parts.

Here it is. Purchased in about 1982/83 and then I removed the spur so I could carry it as a back up in my right duty coat pocket with the two speed loaders in my left duty coat pocket. Also carried it every time I went fishing due to the number of copperheads/rattlesnakes along those rocky/brushy banks of the New and Gauley Rivers. Never killed a snake with it while fishing. Also carried it while groundhog hunting as I like to sneak up on them and that meant crawling through the weeds/brush along the fence lines, creeks, woods edge around the fields. Figured if I ran across a snake it would be close up when I saw it and that's the way it happened.

https://i.imgur.com/5dueYVil.jpg?1

Despite their "sticky" texture, the Pachmayrs are the default grips for mine, although I'm slowly modifying a Herrett for my mitts. This is in my informed opinion the best short-barrelled .357 ever built. And the trigger on one that's broken in is outstanding.

[diving dave]

3 inch 44 magnum with a shot shell is what I use, if I don't have time to run and get a shottie.....Does double duty with hardcast for big hairy critters.
61013

[jlwilliams]

I'll second a knock off j frame with snake shot. A Brazilian 5 shot is my rat shot lawn mowing gun. A Tac 14 or a full stocked shotgun is definitely the best choice for killing snakes but the beater revolver in the back pocket wins when working in the yard. I virtually never see a dangerous snake unless one or both hands are occupied with tools or the lawnmower or whatever. Sometimes depending what I'm doing Ill load up a 410 and keep it nearby but it never seems to work out to being used. It's the blaster on your person or bust.

As an aside, back in the old days they made smooth bore revolvers. There are examples in the Cody Museum. I've always thought a smooth bore cowboy pistola would be a ton of fun. Sure, you could shoot snakes so it's kind of "practical" but who's buying the "I neeeed it" jive. I just want to shoot stuff thrown in the air like they did in old Western movies. Iirc "Winchester 73" has a scene where they shoot thrown coins. I'm not sure if that was the movie but I remember the scene well enough. It's not hard to make 44 shot cartridges but I've never bit the bullet to commit to reaming a barrel. (Yeah, I know...NFA, tax stamp, blablabla. I'm more hung up on not irreversibly buggering a good single action.)

[Papa]

Don't rule out using the mower to buy time--or for the kill.

[barnetmill]

I'll second a knock off j frame with snake shot. A Brazilian 5 shot is my rat shot lawn mowing gun. A Tac 14 or a full stocked shotgun is definitely the best choice for killing snakes but the beater revolver in the back pocket wins when working in the yard. I virtually never see a dangerous snake unless one or both hands are occupied with tools or the lawnmower or whatever. Sometimes depending what I'm doing Ill load up a 410 and keep it nearby but it never seems to work out to being used. It's the blaster on your person or bust.

As an aside, back in the old days they made smooth bore revolvers. There are examples in the Cody Museum. I've always thought a smooth bore cowboy pistola would be a ton of fun. Sure, you could shoot snakes so it's kind of "practical" but who's buying the "I neeeed it" jive. I just want to shoot stuff thrown in the air like they did in old Western movies. Iirc "Winchester 73" has a scene where they shoot thrown coins. I'm not sure if that was the movie but I remember the scene well enough. It's not hard to make 44 shot cartridges but I've never bit the bullet to commit to reaming a barrel. (Yeah, I know...NFA, tax stamp, blablabla. I'm more hung up on not irreversibly buggering a good single action.)
People like Annie Oakley are are to have used shot. Bullets do tend to put holes in things like tents and maybe even bystanders.
My .38 is brazilian also.

[barnetmill]

Don't rule out using the mower to buy time--or for the kill.
There are stories of rattlesnakes with the tail clipped off by mowers. Snakes ducks its head, but leaves the tail up as tractor and mower pass from either the state-countt or private farmer go by. I accidentally did kill a good black snake that way. Make a sure a badly injury snake is not thrown on you if you do it. Even dead snakes can inflict a bite.

[Ragsbo]

Last copperhead I met was freely given a couple douses of 00 buck! (that is what was in the sling on the gun!)

[Travlin]

I hate looking at guns trying to decide what to buy. I find things I don't need. :blink:

Finding wheel guns right now is..... just wrong, and Snake shot doesn't exist it seems.

I have a SS J frame I think will do well for the wife. I just need to come up with something for me. The shot will be the issue, we'll be down there in about a month.

[Huntindoc]

I’ve not been impressed with 22 or even 38 shot shells on snakes. Copperheads are smaller and seem easier to kill than larger rattle bugs and cotton Mouths. 44 shot shells are minimum size for me but even those the shot size is too small. Usually I just shoot em with whatever I am carrying for 2 legged creatures.

[BigEd63]

Don't rule out using the mower to buy time--or for the kill.

I've taken out two with a hand held brush cutter saw blade attachment. And another two with a 6ft pry bar. Last one was perfect shot placement driving the head right into the ground.

[Papa]

Sometimes hands-on is much more satisfying.

[Redbug]

I have tried several brands of snake gaiters. For me the most comfortable ones are made by Turtleskin. They are good against briars and all the debris that gets into your boots, too. You can find them cheaper if you shop around.
https://turtleskin.com/default/outdoor-snake-protection/snakearmor-snake-protection/snake-gaiters.html

[barnetmill]

I have tried several brands of snake gaiters. For me the most comfortable ones are made by Turtleskin. They are good against briars and all the debris that gets into your boots, too. You can find them cheaper if you shop around.
https://turtleskin.com/default/outdoor-snake-protection/snakearmor-snake-protection/snake-gaiters.html
Chainsaw chaps might offer some protection. I do wear a common brand of leggings that wear out. The are good for water moccasin bites, I am not sure of it stopping a strike form a large rattle snake. The force of getting hit by a sizable rattle snake is like getting kicked very hard. Quail hunters often get into contact with rattle snakes.
Below a likely staged encounter between a smaller southern diamond back rattler and a larger water moccasin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4j-3TIJALo&feature=emb_logo

[H60DoorGunner]

My experience with snake shot is that it is only moderately effective, and only so at a distance where some of the bigger snakes can bite you too. It also has the potential to tear up your barrel. Gabe's suggestion of a small shot gun is significantly better idea all around.

Carry a pistol for two legged critters. Everything else in that AO can be handled with an appropriately loaded shotgun or suitably sized rifle.

ETA: Yes, copperhead and cotton mouths can be aggressive snakes, but I think typically that's because you don't see them until you step on them. I'd be aggressive too if someone stepped on me.

The eastern diamond back and other rattle snakes around here are somewhat reclusive, and come with the added benefit of an early detection system. Just don't stick your hand where you can't see, and 8/10 you'll be fine. Your dogs might get tagged on the nose occasionally, but they typically fair better than a human does with a snake bite

[M1A's r Best]

I've taken out two with a hand held brush cutter saw blade attachment. And another two with a 6ft pry bar. Last one was perfect shot placement driving the head right into the ground.

No poisonous snakes within a few miles of my parent's house (lots of big black snakes, some over 6 or 7 ft.) and dad hated to kill the regular snakes.

Sometimes he did, by accident, when trimming along the creek or over the hill from the garden. That big green machine string trimmer would cut the head off the smaller ones and almost cut the heads off the bigger ones. If he was swinging that trimmer across in front of him wound up at several thousand rpm and that snake raised it's head up, it was all over.

Not that I'd carry a weed eater in the woods or while wading the river smallmouth bass fishing, but when you're out doing the weed eating, they'll tear up a snake if you've got one with the heavy line in the head.

Having said that, if I was in the habit of finding "bad" snakes while weed eating I'd have the Ruger in my back pocket.

[P.D.]

I have tried several brands of snake gaiters. For me the most comfortable ones are made by Turtleskin. They are good against briars and all the debris that gets into your boots, too. You can find them cheaper if you shop around.
https://turtleskin.com/default/outdoor-snake-protection/snakearmor-snake-protection/snake-gaiters.html

I'm a fan of gaiters for many reasons besides snakes, and many climates. They are great for keeping snow out of your boots in the winter.

[barnetmill]

My experience with snake shot is that it is only moderately effective, and only so at a distance where some of the bigger snakes can bite you too. It also has the potential to tear up your barrel. Gabe's suggestion of a small shot gun is significantly better idea all around.

Carry a pistol for two legged critters. Everything else in that AO can be handled with an appropriately loaded shotgun or suitably sized rifle.

ETA: Yes, copperhead and cotton mouths can be aggressive snakes, but I think typically that's because you don't see them until you step on them. I'd be aggressive too if someone stepped on me.

The eastern diamond back and other rattle snakes around here are somewhat reclusive, and come with the added benefit of an early detection system. Just don't stick your hand where you can't see, and 8/10 you'll be fine. Your dogs might get tagged on the nose occasionally, but they typically fair better than a human does with a snake bite
Not all rattlesnakes will warn prior to striking. Especially hard to do if they have no rattle. Mowers often cut off the tails of snakes.
Here is a water moccasin killed May 2017 that appears to be missing its tail. There just to show that losing the tail is possible. Normally there is a small stubby pointed tail on a moccasin. It is not there on this one.

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61027

[barnetmill]

61028


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2017/02/03/a-texas-boy-found-a-rattlesnake-in-a-toilet-then-a-snake-catcher-found-23-more/
Jason McFadden was at work one morning in late January when he got a text message from his wife, Cassie.

“What the crap do I do?” it read.

That text was followed by a picture — of a rattlesnake inside a toilet at their Texas home.

[Papa]

Get a broom. Slam the lid. Flush. It's all in the SOPs.

Not the time for a big bore snake load, unless you have the plumber on speed dial.

[Travlin]

We got a call today the soil mapping is good so now to just sign on the line. I appreciate all the input from you guys, it will be used starting in about a month to figure out where to put the house. It was 70 there today so I'm sure in a month we will be seeing the extent of what I have to deal with.

I had a pretty funny talk with a guy yesterday down there. Apparently copperheads and rattlers are "protected" and are supposed to be "shooed off the property". I started laughing when he said that and was told ill fit right in.

[barnetmill]

We got a call today the soil mapping is good so now to just sign on the line. I appreciate all the input from you guys, it will be used starting in about a month to figure out where to put the house. It was 70 there today so I'm sure in a month we will be seeing the extent of what I have to deal with.

I had a pretty funny talk with a guy yesterday down there. Apparently copperheads and rattlers are "protected" and are supposed to be "shooed off the property". I started laughing when he said that and was told ill fit right in.


Unfortunately water moccasins are dong quite well in Florida. there has been talk of protecting the eastern diamond back at the federal level. Maybe some states are doing it.

[barnetmill]

.22 with shot. Local post in my area of Florida.
https://www.gulfcoastgunforum.com/attachments/20210220_082054-jpg.109565/

[mike28w]

61028


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2017/02/03/a-texas-boy-found-a-rattlesnake-in-a-toilet-then-a-snake-catcher-found-23-more/
Jason McFadden was at work one morning in late January when he got a text message from his wife, Cassie.

“What the crap do I do?” it read.

That text was followed by a picture — of a rattlesnake inside a toilet at their Texas home.

How in the world can they get into the sewer system ? Damn !!

[Travlin]

That's a good looking snake to have stretched across a wall in the garage. :ugh:

[SheepDog68]

In some really wet parts of the world the “drain field” is an open pipe draining into the swamp.

SD

[Travlin]

Well, the land deal is done. After spending a day out digging around its early for snakes.but i found 2 springs feeding creeks on the land.
61198

I need to set a trail cam and figure out who's squatting on my land.
Sorry for the rotatation. I cant get it to set correctly.
61199

The builder is set to break ground in 2 weeks and dried in by fall.

[Nameless]

Up until lately my snake gun has been a lowly 22LR revolver using CCI shot capsules. Granted I have had to be accurate and fast at times but they have accounted for quite a few Copperheads, Cotton Mouths, and Rattle Snakes with head shots the rule. Times two on the double taps to the head or even three. The .22 LR was used only because it was there more often than my .410 pump shotgun with a full choke which is ideal when it was available. Snake boots come in handy at times also. Lately I moved away from snake country.

My latest .22LR revolver is a S&W 617-4 8 3/8".

6131261313

[jlwilliams]

Well, the land deal is done. After spending a day out digging around its early for snakes.but i found 2 springs feeding creeks on the land.
61198

I need to set a trail cam and figure out who's squatting on my land.
Sorry for the rotatation. I cant get it to set correctly.
61199

The builder is set to break ground in 2 weeks and dried in by fall.

Cool old cellar hole. Any idea how old it is?

[Travlin]

In talking to a neighbor who's family has been there for generations, he doesn't know who lived there in the past.

The pipe sticking through the wall is actually an axle tube off of a model T/A I think. It has the mounting flange on the other side of the wall.

Eventually I will pack the holes in the corners to stabilize it so its around for a while, it's pretty cool. If I get bored I might put a roof back on it with wood of the lot.

We rode the bikes down there this weekend. The survey is done and a logger working an adjacent property is going to pull the pine off the top of the property where the house will be. The driveway and house will be marked off this week and we need to go back down next weekend to give the blessing to start digging.

The price on lumber right now causing some rethinking of the schedule but there is a lot of ground work to be done before that comes into play.

[Travlin]

I got news this week the dirt work is done.
61519
61520
The well is set to be punched and septic tank being delivered in the next couple of weeks. There should be base gravel down next week.

I am hoping to have a slab with everything else done by deep summer and ready for the sticks to be started. Providing lumber prices start to straighten out.

When I was walking the place with my builder I pointed out the foundation and told him it doesnt get touched while the dirt work was being done. Based on several things he knows as a local he thinks it was a civil war sentry post for a forge. He was going to hook up with a couple of old timers to get the history of it.

I think I am ready to be done already.

[Chainsaw76]

OT, but if lumber gets too high, cord wood or stack rock construction are affordable, nice looking and tend to blend with the scenery very well. Pretty thermal efficient too. just saying.

jim

[Travlin]

So, a year later it's finally rocking. We had contractor issues and got lucky to find a great guy who we have become good friends with. As a generational family on the mountain we have been fully vetted as not one of THOSE Yankees. People are coming to meet us when we are down there and they all are great mountain folk.
6336063361
Last Friday
63362
They did all the interior walls in the last 2 days and the trusses show on Friday. It's likely to be under roof by mid-week after next. This crew is ROCKING.
The well ended up being 500 feet deep and hit a spring that pushed 360 feet of water into the hole. I think water won't be an issue at all.

We are STOKED at being in before Christmas.

[Papa]

That looks like much house--clean and simple. Congratulations.

[cannis latrans]

Congratulations on what looks like it will be a beautiful house in beautiful country. I have posted on the snake issue before, but several years ago I got to talking to a bulldozer operator on a ranch in west Texas. I noticed he was carrying what looked llike an old H&R 22 pistol and asked him if he ever saw rattle snakes from the dozer. Not missing a beat he said he did and in fact was up to about 135 killed that year. He showed me the loads in his 22 pistol; they were the rat shot brand that has the front of the case folded in over the shot, not the capsule variety, like the 45 acp loads previously mentioned in this thread. He said they were the best kind to use of all the various types he had tried. I have always just used whatever carry gun and load I had on me; but the job has gotten a lot easier with an rmr. From about six feet just hold a tiny bit high, depending on the angle, and shoot him in the head. Thanks also to Gabe's Glock trigger!

[Travlin]

That looks like much house--clean and simple. Congratulations.

Thanks Papa. We were going for clean and simple. Lots of covered porches and zero maintenance in our lifetime. Huge garage to keep me occupied in. The cold months will be cutting wood while the snakes and hornets are quiet,, I have a HUGE amount to work through from the clearing.