Where Freedom Dwells

[LawDog]

"Where freedom dwells, there is my country." --Benjamin Franklin

While certainly not as acute as a midnight departure from Havana, I knew--growing up in Atlanta--that I would eventually escape. There are pockets of the north Georgia mountains that are quite nice, but the job opportunities are few and the lifestyle is....limited. The area from which I hail is plagued with crime. The corruption runs so deep that most Americans find it too fantastic to believe. On one of the occasions in which my wife's childhood home was burglarized, the family became convinced that the police were the perpetrators. A couple of years later, a handful of officers from that department were indicted by the feds for running a commercial burglary ring. My family was always bringing up the rear in the never-ending cycle of 'white flight.' Once we moved to a new neighborhood, it was doomed.

I didn't really travel as a child. We vacationed in such exotic locales as Jekyll Island or the gulf coast of Florida. But despite my lack of seeing much of the rest of the world, I was convinced that it had to be better than where I was currently. At the time, my belief could be criticized as simply seeing greener grass on the other side of the fence. But as soon as I was able, I began stretching my horizons and venturing out to new places. And what I saw convinced me that I was correct--any other place was an improvement. (Eventually, I realized that wasn't quite true. There are places that are worse. But it was easy to find places that were better.) After college, I got a job with the airlines and basically became a professional vagabond. The job was pretty miserable and the pay was garbage, but I could jump on a plane whenever I wanted for virtually nothing. And the discounts on rental cars and hotels was significant. So I went everywhere. I once spent ten days tramping around between Sydney and Melbourne, and the total cost, including airfare and lodging, was $200. (There were no fancy dinners by the harbor.) When I decided to go to law school, I began flying around to the different cities where I thought I might attend. Seeing those places exposed you to both good and bad things that were unexpected. I learned that there is a difference between great places to visit and great places to live. Gabe said he wouldn't accept a free house on Maui, and I concur. But I would still recommend it as a vacation spot once in your life.

In the second year of law school, I began the process of selecting where I would start my practice. I am a researcher by nature, and law school just made me better at it. I had a series of overlay maps that included details like a state's income tax, property tax, level of business regulation, firearms freedom, anticipated economic growth, and so on. There were some states that I knew I could ignore before I even began--Cali, NY, NJ, etc. When I started, I predicted that it would be Montana or Colorado. (There was also a soft, subjective criteria: snow-capped mountains.) But the state that came out way ahead of everyone in virtually every criteria was Alaska. Keep in mind that I was a Georgia boy. I thought that 40 degrees F was cold. And Anchorage was farther from my family than London. My wife maintains that we ended up in Alaska because of my failure to recognize sarcasm in her voice. But we did it, and we both loved it. I'm also convinced that God led me there. It may not have been a burning bush, but he definitely lit the path and pulled my eyes that direction. I felt the same guidance a decade later when opportunities opened up in Texas.

While I always want to go where God leads me, He's never been clear enough to just send an angel to inform me. The reason and logic that I possess are gifts from God. And those are the tools that I begin with when trying to decipher His will. The objective criteria that I laid out above (tax rates and such) are pretty easy to identify and measure. But there are also a multitude of subjective data points that are not nearly as easy to identify. And there are laws and regulations that just don't reveal themselves until you arrive some place. I'd like to compile a body of information here for those brave souls who are willing to pack up and move to wherever fortune leads them. Specifically, to lay out the surprises that some states offer, and the negatives that are not immediately apparent. Clearly, we know the most about the places we have lived, but you don't need to have lived some place in order to have knowledge about its suitability as a home.

[Gabriel Suarez]

My POV. I was born in Havana Cuba in pure Communism. The things I saw and experienced as a child would be incredible to most soft modern Americans. I grew up in Los Angeles. I spent much of my adult life there, operating a business, and working as a police officer. But in the early 2000s, when I left police service, I knew that there was no way I could build the life I wanted in California. Remove the beaches and climate and there is nothing good there. Yes, I left my family behind, but that was no different than what my parents did when they left Cuba in 1967.

Shield Maiden and I put up a map of the USA and began looking. We took a marker and crossed off all states that had the following -

Predominant Leftist-Liberal Cultures or Governments - note...there are no liberal free states. That cancer is everywhere, so it is important to know that. As long as they are not near the majority, and not likely to ever change the nature of the state in your lifetime is the key

Low property taxes and low state taxes - See Texas. I have no desire to keep goats for an AG Exemption so not wanting to pay my police retirement to rent my land from Texas, we discounted that one immediately.

Relatively good weather year round - Sorry Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and Alaska. The cold doesn't work and i hate snow.

No natural disasters...or minimal is any. Having lived through multiple catastophric earthquakes, Shield Maiden discounted places with Blizzards, Tornadoes and Hurricanes. Again...sorry Texas and any states north of Utah, Co, etc., plus Florida

Interesting topography. That killed the great plains states.

Amenable culture - While I like the south, and the gulf coast, I don't see myself "belonging" to that culture...nor living there long term. Nothing against them, but just not my cup of tea.

We had few states left to consider: Utah, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, here are my POVs.

Utah - If you are not a Mormon, skip this one. If you are it may be a nice place to live. At the time I was a much harder driven Christian than I am now. I tend to be more relaxed abot things now and living in a theocratic region doesn't appeal to me. I like to see bikinis, and have a drink now and again.

Nevada - Really nothing there unless you want to live in Vegas or the outlying areas...and I did not. Yeah there is Havasu and there is Reno. Been to both...meh.

Colorado - It was on the table but the cold tended to keep me away. And there was a leftward lean that eventually made me glad to not have selected it.

New Mexico - See Nevada.

We kept returning to Arizona. There is alot here and it requires a thread of its own. I have already been contacted by a couple of people. I have a great realtor for the north and one for the south. They have no time for bullshit however or tire kickers. If you are ready, I can connect you.

Having said all of this, since 2002, as you know, I have been not only all over the nation but all over the world. I visited virtually every state and certainly every reagion of the country. Some had an appeal, others I hated and couldn't wait to leave. If you have me a million dollars and the opportunity to build a life and a home anywhere in the USA, I would still select Prescott, Arizona as the place to live and to raise a family and to die.

[LawDog]

Alaska

It seems too extreme for most Americans. People visualize igloos and dog sleds, despite knowing that it really isn't like that any more. The climate is indeed a vast departure from Florida, and if you haven't lived in the cold then there is a lot to learn. The all-terrain tires that served you so well in Oklahoma will put you in the ditch in Kodiak. You'll learn how to dress for the cold, how to properly insulate a house, and how to walk on ice without injury. You'll slowly grow a bit numb to being surrounded by beauty that stupefies non-Alaskans. You'll forget how to navigate without mountains to look up and and use for orientation.

The tax situation is great. There is no state income tax. Some municipalities have a local sales tax--usually 2% or less, and usually capped for large purchases (the cap on automobiles in my area was $200, and that was only at a dealer). The government is funded off of oil revenue. The oil companies are taxed based on how much they produce. All of that revenue is placed into the Permanent Fund. Half of the Permanent Fund is used to pay for government. The other half is invested in a very well-managed portfolio, and the interest is paid out every year to every Alaskan. That payment is the Permanent Fund Dividend (PFD), which is usually around $1k. So if you are married with two kids, you'll get $4k or so every October. If you work for the state government, you don't pay money into Social Security. Instead, the same percentage is placed into a state-managed investment portfolio that actually earns decent interest.

Cost of living varies greatly across the state. Anchorage has the lowest cost of living for everything except housing. Anchorage is geographically constricted--mountains on one side and ocean inlet on the other--so it creates a bit of a land shortage and results in a much more urban design than most people expect when they see it. But there is a lot of public land and outdoor space. Chugach State Park is right on the eastern edge of the city, and provides an outdoor playground about the size of Rhode Island. Many other parks are spread around the city. Expect an average house to cost about $400k and to be architecturally uninspiring. There are outdated 70's houses with glorious views that go for $1M+. The most affordable housing is in the Mat-Su Valley (my area), where things start around $200k. In the Valley, $600k will buy you a retreat that Robin Masters would envy. In Unalaska, Kotzebue, or Barrow, you'll pay $800k for a crumbling shack. You'll also pay $8 for a gallon of milk. In Anchorage, the Valley, and the Kenai, you can expect to pay about a 15% premium on most groceries. Cars cost the same. Clothing costs the same. Amazon ships to Alaska. It does cost a little bit more to live there, but not nearly as much as most people presume.

Crime is minimal. There is a lot of meth, heroin, and alcoholism. Drunk driving is by far the greatest criminal threat. The criminals are entirely unsophisticated. The police have grown soft from spending their careers chasing drunks. If an organized criminal group ever showed up, I don't believe the police would be equipped to deal with it.

Guns are everywhere. Gun laws are minimal. But it still isn't really a gunfighter culture. Arizona has a deep gun culture that is much more inline with my own thinking. While virtually every Alaska owns a gun, many of them just have a .300 Win Mag Model 70, topped with an old Redfield 3-9x that they inherited from their father. There are still plenty of people who will think it odd that you actually carry a gun. The only gun law that I saw commonly enforced was the prohibition against being drunk with a gun. And there is no .08 theory for that charge, so it is entirely possible for a jury to look at a given situation and say, "Sure, his blood measured out at .200 BAC, but we still don't think that was too drunk for somebody out fishing."

Education is lacking. For the really smart kids in Alaska, they all end up going out of state to get a degree. The universities are third tier and have a limited curriculum. There is no law school or medical school. They do have a nursing program.

It's a great place to be a blue-collar guy. You can make lots of money as a welder. The great job for many guys is "slope work." I knew high-school dropouts who were making six figures working for the oil companies. They would get on a company plane and fly up to Prudhoe (the North Slope) and work for two weeks, living in accommodations that are something between a hotel and a barracks. Then they had two weeks off at home. Two on, two off; rinse and repeat. It often doesn't work well for married guys with kids. But young, single guys love it. When you aren't working, you are out in the Alaska wilderness hunting, fishing, or racing snow machines.

The churches are abysmal. In a decade, my wife and I never found a church where we fit. No preacher could make it through three sermons without saying something that made me respond with, "Nope. Not here." Sometimes we'd walk in, look at the lesbian pastor, and just turn right around. The churches in Alaska have caved to the culture. They work so hard at being "tolerant" that they are no longer Biblical.

Alaskans in general are politely aloof. They'll just leave you alone. In my tiny little town of Palmer, there were hundreds of people that I knew by sight but who I never met or spoke with. We would pass each other in the coffee shop or the grocery store, and nod and smile to one another, but never say a word or extend a hand. It's an introvert's paradise.

Crazy people abound. The term often used for them is end-of-the-roaders. They don't fit into society, so they find some place where they can live at the end of the road and avoid most human interaction. Problems arise, though, when growth pushes past them and they find themselves in the midst of people again. That's when they would get to know me--when they became a client.

Travel becomes too much. There is a lot to see in Alaska, but eventually you manage to see it. I liked travel. I like Europe. But flying from Anchorage to Prague is a very different experience than flying from Atlanta to Prague. It becomes so difficult and expensive that it just isn't worth traveling outside of the state. You really are far, far away from it all.

The economy is not well diversified at all. When oil tanks, Alaska tanks. The second largest industry is government. Nearly a quarter of the adult population works for some level of government.

There are no snakes. None. No scorpions or tarantulas or any of those creepy desert creatures that are all over the southern U.S. Alaskans make a big deal out of the mosquitoes, but they really aren't that bad. They start out slow and lethargic, and stumble around like drunken insects for two weeks. Then they are terrible for about two weeks, then moderately bad, then gone. You quickly learn where they are the most dense and when, and you avoid those particular trails at those particular times.

The darkness is largely a myth. It actually feels darker to me in Texas than it ever did in Alaska. When the sun goes down here, it's like somebody just flipped a light switch. In Alaska, the dawn and dusk are far more gradual. The really dark period is from around mid-October to mid-December. Once there is snow on the ground, everything brightens up. With snow cover and a quarter moon, you can sit outside and read a newspaper at midnight without artificial light. Cant' do that in Austin.

The 24-hour days are real. I was at roughly Latitude 62. On the longest day, we officially had four hours of "night," but it never got dark. The sun would hover just below the horizon, leaving you in a glorious purple haze for that four hour period. From the beginning of May through around the end of August, you could ignore the possibility of darkness. You don't have to worry about getting your tent set up in time or making it back to camp.

It really doesn't feel that cold. The humidity is what kills you, with either heat or cold. Arizonans love to post photos of their thermometers at 117 F, but the reality is that it doesn't feel nearly as hot at 117 in Phoenix as it does at 97 in Miami. And the same is true on the opposite end of the scale. If feels colder when it's 40 in Savannah than it does at 10 in Valdez. If it was in the 20's in Alaska, I would often walk around wearing just a sweater. I'd have a hat and gloves on, too, but no big puffy coat; just normal pants. There is zero chance of rain, because all precipitation comes down as snow. And the snow is dry and powdery--you just brush it off your shoulders. There were a few occasions when it got down to -30 or -40 F, but at those temperatures even the Alaskans were complaining about how cold it was. That wasn't normal.

For a young guy looking for freedom, I would highly recommend Alaska. It seems extreme, but if you can get over the psychological hurdle, Alaska has a lot going for it.

[62-10]

Great summaries!

[Dorkface]

Back at the turn of the century Colorado was almost perfect. Then in the mid 00's people started fleeing kommiefornia and moving here. Even the people on the local news and radio were making fun of them. The problem was they didn't learn anything after moving here and it went from Boulder being the hippie joke to this place going full retard in recent years. Freedom is slowly... maybe quickly.... dying here.

[Faramir2]

Don't have quite enough for a write-up on the Nashville, TN area, but I will say, to Dorkface's point about Colorado and the comments others have made about liberal flight to other areas, that Nashville's political leaning, demographic, and economic prospects have shifted significantly in the last decade. It's not the same place my family moved to, and I don't like the change, either. I'm keeping my eye on other markets, as I consider where to practice law in a couple years. I'm not loving too many places, though.

[henri]

Interesting thread. I grew up in nyc, stayed there throughout college, medical school, and residency training. Loved the city, the culture, the excitement, best training in the world. A great place for a single professional. Afterwards, moved to New England, had to raise the kids in an Ivy League town with an excellent school system, plus I was young and enjoyed the seasons. Traveled throughout country over time for teaching, training, spent a month here, two months there over the course of career. Fast forward 20 years, kids on their own, only season I like is summer, and I need to be on the ocean. Moved to Florida, perpetual summer, oceanfront home, excellent Gun laws, life is good. Hurricanes, you say! Meh, impact windows, whole house generators, experienced several major CNN level storms without issue. To each his own, I’ve visited Alaska, hated it. Lived in Texas, hated it, New Mexico, nope, the desert is no place for a surfer. The Midwest, north central states , definite no. California love it, have a small condo out in Laguna, out there 2-3 months /year but the gun laws suck. For me, south Florida is optimum.

[Papa]

I love Alaska, but have only been there once: in Soldotna, and on the Kenai, and fishing for halibut out of Homer. Met a moose and a bear up close, but no animals were harmed during the making of that adventure.

As to "end of the roader," that pretty much describes me for the last ten years or more, but especially now.

[Oscar01]

Back at the turn of the century Colorado was almost perfect. Then in the mid 00's people started fleeing kommiefornia and moving here. Even the people on the local news and radio were making fun of them. The problem was they didn't learn anything after moving here and it went from Boulder being the hippie joke to this place going full retard in recent years. Freedom is slowly... maybe quickly.... dying here.


I'd say it's accelerating. Being the first to legalize weed seemed to really tip the scales. Now Denver's crime rate is higher than Sacramento's (according to a recent study by Lott)...


So far it's looking like AZ for me, possibly ID.


Was planning on doing some recon already but the whole plannedemic set me back. Might see if I can get out of CO this year, if not then next year.


Appreciate all the detailed insights.

[steve_k]

California was a toilet bowl.... Washington is the urinal.... And Oregon is for those who don’t know which one to use.

[BigEd63]

So far it's looking like AZ for me, possibly ID.


Was planning on doing some recon already but the whole plannedemic set me back. Might see if I can get out of CO this year, if not then next year.


Appreciate all the detailed insights.

That's kind of where I'm at currently.
If I had a choice I'd leave this minute and role out to AZ for a recon.

I'm also looking at one spot in MO and possibly further out in the Eastern Ozark mountains.
I'm not real picky about the weather but my body is getting arthritis in a few spots and barometric pressure hoping up and down is problematic.

Then there's my allergies to stupid people and communists. You know libtards.

Maybe in a couple of months I'll take a ride out to AZ and scout around.

[mrstang01]

KY is not bad, except for Louisville and to a lesser extent Lexington. Cost of living is low, but that's good because Income is not great. You have to work in Louisville to make decent money, and unless you find a Work from Home gig, that's reality. Humid in summer, not as cold as I remember in Winter (in 1977, the Ohio River froze deep enough that you could drive a truck across it). Lots of allergy issues. We recently elected a Democratic governor, primarily because the Republican Governor that preceded him tried to balance the budget and pissed off a bunch of Leftist teachers.

Gun control isn't an issue except again in Liberal Louisville, and a few places in Lexington. It's beautiful, from the mountains to the river, and it will always be home. Folks tend to be clannish, but most will give you the shirt off their back if you need it. Appalachia is very poor, and there is a lot of Meth use. It will always be home to me, but if I could find a good job in IT in AZ, I'd be out. Household Six can work remotely, and the kids are at an age they want to do their thing.

[Togar]

California was a toilet bowl.... Washington is the urinal.... And Oregon is for those who don’t know which one to use.

Too accurate of a description.... Now I have a keyboard and monitor that need cleaning.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Today I woke up to a nice breeze. We sleep with windows and doors open in the summer. Yes...they are security doors...not that we need them but...
Did some admin work. Went to Sprouts, where they said I needed a mask. I said I didn't need a mask and nothing else was said.
Went home for a short workout and then a swim in the pool as we watched the monsoon roll in.
Temps were 89 and now...72 with the thunder and rain careening off the roof.
As I type, my 300 Blackout Hyena stands near the hearth.
Time for another strawberry margarita...the Shield Maiden's choice.

Humidity is only in the shower.
Heat is never more than 100 here.
Cold can be 10 degrees.
There can be snow...for like a week.
Wanna drive around wearing a chest righ festooned with magazines and a true full auto assault rifle on the passenger's seat? You can do that here. You can also drive your BMW to the Square and have a nice meal and a cocktail.

Have a look at Prescott...it is where American Liberty lives.

Plus it would be cool to have some of you dangerous crusader motherf*ckers living here too.

[Captain Ron]

This thread and it’s siblings have started a conversation in our house. No intentions of moving any time soon but we are considering options...

I was in Phoenix briefly for work last year and unfortunately didn’t have the time to drive up and look around in the Prescott area. My work generally needs a large city so would require me to be closer to Phoenix, but who knows what the future brings.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Local governments weigh major tax hikes to plug coronavirus-induced shortfalls (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/local-governments-weigh-major-tax-hikes-to-plug-coronavirus-induced-shortfalls)Property tax rates in Nashville will be increasing by 34 percent

Another nail in the Texas coffin - Dallas lawmakers were considering a massive property tax hike of as much as 8 percent but needed the city council to pass a measure allowing them to increase rates by more than 3.5 percent.

[LawDog]

Local governments weigh major tax hikes to plug coronavirus-induced shortfalls (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/local-governments-weigh-major-tax-hikes-to-plug-coronavirus-induced-shortfalls)Honest government: "Hey, we just destroyed the economy. So we're going to have to take more money away from you, to make up for what we can no longer take from the businesses that we destroyed. Also, that'll be $250 for not wearing a virtue flag."

[Speed is Life]

Local governments weigh major tax hikes to plug coronavirus-induced shortfalls (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/local-governments-weigh-major-tax-hikes-to-plug-coronavirus-induced-shortfalls)

Property tax rates in Nashville will be increasing by 34 percent

Another nail in the Texas coffin - Dallas lawmakers were considering a massive property tax hike of as much as 8 percent but needed the city council to pass a measure allowing them to increase rates by more than 3.5 percent.

Here's the entire quote,

"In Texas, Dallas lawmakers were considering a massive property tax hike of as much as 8 percent but needed the city council to pass a measure allowing them to increase rates by more than 3.5 percent. In May, the resolution failed after a 12-3 vote.

'I want to take this option off the table," City Council member Cara Mendelsohn said, according to local NBCDFW (https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/dallas-city-council-votes-to-limit-potential-property-tax-hike/2377351/#:~:text=Read%20more-,A%20strong%20majority%20of%20Dallas%20City%20Coun cil%20members%20voted%20Wednesday,instead%20of%20u p%20to%208%25.). 'And if we were to pass this resolution and we were to increase taxes even close to this amount, we would be creating the next disaster for Dallas.'”

Local governments set property taxes, not the state. I live in a reasonable county where property taxes, due to my obscene salary, saves me a ton of cash over a state income tax. We won't even talk about CA or NY.

We enjoy a relative advantage in ad valorem over most states on items that must be registered like vehicles and boats, but we also pay higher sales taxes. I mitigate much of that by buying high value items in states that have no sales tax. Portland, OR, before it was turned into Beirut, was a great place for tax free computers, carbon fiber bikes, custom suits, etc. Now you just loot what you want.

The real issue in Texas comes after you retire, when for many incomes are reduced, but property taxes stay the same.Doesn't really matter to me, since I can exceed my current working income in retirement. Therefore, I'd still rather not have an income tax.

Living in AZ would have cost me well over $500,000 over the past three decades, calculating the AZ property and income taxes vs TX property taxes, leaving sales and ad valorem out of the calculation, and including the loss of capital for investment. It's worse now that Trump has limited the deductibility of SALT taxes on Fed Tax Liability.

I have a bunch of old friends in PHX that I visit from time to time, and we all enjoy hiking in the beautiful browns and reds of Sedona. It's also a great place to get your "aura realigned" from time to time. A service that you definitely can't find in Texas.

Everything is a tradeoff. If most of your net worth is in real estate, and you take a smaller salary, then you don't want to be in Texas. Bottom line, if you are happy where you live, then why bother to compare your situation to every other state in the nation? Hell, if I was going to pick my dream retirement location, it wouldn't even be in the USA. I'd choose a village on a lake, next to an airfield, in the Alps close to either Zurich or Geneva, Switzerland.

If this crap continues much longer, it will be more tempting by the day.

[kabar]

California was a toilet bowl.... Washington is the urinal.... And Oregon is for those who don’t know which one to use.

Portland is kind of like a well used bed pan... with a heaping of puke tossed in for extra spice.

[Harborcat]

This is a great thread.

How much rain do you get in Prescott?

Everything about Prescott seems appealing. Close enough to Scottsdale, gets me out of California, and property values are reasonable compared to coastal Orange County.


Today I woke up to a nice breeze. We sleep with windows and doors open in the summer. Yes...they are security doors...not that we need them but...
Did some admin work. Went to Sprouts, where they said I needed a mask. I said I didn't need a mask and nothing else was said.
Went home for a short workout and then a swim in the pool as we watched the monsoon roll in.
Temps were 89 and now...72 with the thunder and rain careening off the roof.
As I type, my 300 Blackout Hyena stands near the hearth.
Time for another strawberry margarita...the Shield Maiden's choice.

Humidity is only in the shower.
Heat is never more than 100 here.
Cold can be 10 degrees.
There can be snow...for like a week.
Wanna drive around wearing a chest righ festooned with magazines and a true full auto assault rifle on the passenger's seat? You can do that here. You can also drive your BMW to the Square and have a nice meal and a cocktail.

Have a look at Prescott...it is where American Liberty lives.

Plus it would be cool to have some of you dangerous crusader motherf*ckers living here too.

[WinstonSmith]

Any votes for Montana?

[Dorkface]

Any votes for Montana?

Do I get to LARP FarCry 5???

The only real down side would be the fairly brutal winters. Otherwise everything else seems awesome if you want to be left alone.

[Gabriel Suarez]

I dont care for the cold. Others may like it but not me.

[Papa]

Any votes for Montana?

Yes.

[Herbert West]

I divide my time between Hanover, New Hampshire and Naples, FL. Most likely next year all my time will be Naples. I need to be on the ocean and walk the beaches. NH is great in the summer and fall, but getting to the point where one season is all I want. The western deserts never appealed to me. The desolation of the Dakotas, Alaska, not to my liking for year round living. Spent a year in Jackson Hole, and it was great , just not 'forever to live here great', for my wife and I. Lived in California for 2 years as well, Marina del Rey was a great place to live, Venice Beach was fun, as was the small beach house in Malibu. The gun laws were something out of the twilight zone, but living there was great, I really can't understand/justify all the Cali hate people here express, except for the gun laws.

[mrstang01]

I dont care for the cold. Others may like it but not me.Brother, I'm with you. I can live without the cold any more.

Michael

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[dnater]

While Prescott, AZ is nice, I have to plug Payson as an alternative. I’ve lived here for 15 years. Smaller, not as much growth as Prescott has seen. Less in the way of shopping/dining choices, but basics are here. It is a 1.5 hour drive to Scottsdale/Phoenix. Great local range, great climate, housing available in all price ranges. We have a highly rated local hospital, but limited medical specialists in town. Lots of retired folks here. You probably need to be self employed since there are not a lot of good jobs, especially since service industry jobs have tanked. Summer daytime temps run about 20 degrees less than Phoenix, overnight gets down to 60’s or 70’s.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Any votes for Montana?


Too damn cold for me

[Gabriel Suarez]

While Prescott, AZ is nice, I have to plug Payson as an alternative. I’ve lived here for 15 years. Smaller, not as much growth as Prescott has seen. Less in the way of shopping/dining choices, but basics are here. It is a 1.5 hour drive to Scottsdale/Phoenix. Great local range, great climate, housing available in all price ranges. We have a highly rated local hospital, but limited medical specialists in town. Lots of retired folks here. You probably need to be self employed since there are not a lot of good jobs, especially since service industry jobs have tanked. Summer daytime temps run about 20 degrees less than Phoenix, overnight gets down to 60’s or 70’s.

Payson is what Prescott was 50 years ago

[7 Mary 3]

Whats the lowdown on Prescott vs Flagstaff from the boots on the ground people? Im just curious. Im interested in a more 4 season place.

I am concerned with AZ going blue or at least less red with everyone fleeing Kali and news talking about politics and seats being up in the air now. I live in a state where the metropolis has put us under their thumb and doubled down when they got power and Phoenix has always seemed like the blob that ate AZ.

AZ would be a big move for us. Ive spent time in northern NM and certainly value the opportunity to venture off onto BLM land etc. with a boom stick for some freedom.

7M3