When Men were EXPECTED to be MEN

[Marco Innocenti]

So I don’t hide the fact that I’m a bit of a vintage geek.

I really love the old Bond films and adventure films from the 60’s and 70’s like “The Man who Would be King,” Salkind’s “The Three Musketeers” and “Four Musketeers, “Planet of the Apes,” “Great Escape”, “Bullitt,” etc.

Clint’s Spaghetti Westerns!

All the great war movies like “Dirty Dozen,” “Guns of Navarone,” The Duke’s “Green Berets” and so many others.

Also just love most of the dark existential Sci-Fi from the late 60’s and early 70’s like Logan’s Run, Rollerball, the series UFO, Space 1999, and especially the John Boorman madness of Zardoz. (Don’t care for Dr. Who though...)

And Miami Vice is still the greatest cop show ever.


Anyway this morning in one of my geek FB groups a post pops on late 70’s British re-do of “The Saint.”

This is the tagline:

“A roaring adventurer who loves a fight.

A dashing daredevil; unperturbable, debonair, and preposterously handsome.
A pirate or philanthropist, as the occasion demands.

He lives for the pursuit of excitement...
For the one triumphant moment that is his alone.”


And it just resonates with me and the first thing I think of is this also so describes just about all the meat-eaters on Warrior Talk.

And I realize the reason I’m such a Vintage geek for the early 60’s through the early 80’s is that, once the 3-4 years of hippy revolution BS was pretty played out, these decades CELEBRATED what a real MAN was SUPPOSED to be.

A subtle superhero known as Vintage Man.

Yeah there were a few years were Vintage Man was a little too fashionable with an unbuttoned silk shirt and sweet medallion, and knew a few too many of the latest disco-dance steps...

But he also trained to fight. He carried real weapons he was proficient in. He could wear a Tux. He could fix a motorcycle. He could SCUBA. He could BBQ a steak over real fire. He could drink. He served; in the military, or as a cop or fireman.

He didn’t need anyone’s permission.

Vintage Man.

He wasn’t afraid to slide his new T-top Corvette or Porsche 911 Targa or Jaguar XK into a parking spot outside the restaurant by pulling the e-brake.

He would get the door for take his Lady, pull out her chair, and buy her a steak dinner with cash.
He would punch out some long-hair in the bar who made a snide comment about how hot his Lady looked on the dance floor...

Then roar back home blasting Ted Nugent on the 8-track to his king-sized waterbed and make some sweet Whoopie to the soulful sounds of Barry White.

And the next morning his Lady would happily and gratefully make him breakfast, because he’s her MAN.

And she know’s he keep her safe and can bring it. Any time, any place.

Vintage Man.


Yes my friends, there once was a time when masculinity and testosterone and chivalry and the ability to bring measured, controlled violence to any situation wasn’t just celebrated, it was WORSHIPPED.

And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we were the top-dog RULERS of the world when Vintage Man was the guy so many aspired and struggled to be.


Thank God for Warrior Talk, it’s members, and the not just the survival but thriving of men should be, are, and will continue to be MEN.


“A roaring adventurer who loves a fight.

A dashing daredevil; unperturbable, debonair, preposterously handsome.
A pirate or philanthropist, as the occasion demands.

He lives for the pursuit excitement...
For the one triumphant moment that is his alone.”


Late-morning, full Moka-Pot rant OVER!

[CaptShack]

Marco,

We are brothers of different mothers. I can relate to Vintage Man. I grew up in that era and the guys in the squadron, especially the old heads, were those men. I aspired to be like them and still aspire to living that way. Lift your alcoholic beverage of choice to Vintage Man...Long may his ideals live in the hearts of Men.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Comments in bold



I really love the old Bond films and adventure films from the 60’s and 70’s like “The Man who Would be King,” Salkind’s “The Three Musketeers” and “Four Musketeers, “Planet of the Apes,” “Great Escape”, “Bullitt,” etc.

YES!!

Clint’s Spaghetti Westerns!

And a few of the latter ones...Josey Wales as an example

All the great war movies like “Dirty Dozen,” “Guns of Navarone,” The Duke’s “Green Berets” and so many others.

Funny that all of those movies I watched with my son as we were raising him. Sometimes daughter as well. Others we watched...Gladiator...Lone Survivor, etc. We would then get a pizza or ice cream...or later have a drink and discuss what we learned. Good times.

And Miami Vice is still the greatest cop show ever.

That show is one of the things that got me interested in that career path. Without Crockett and Tubbs, God knows where I would have ended up

.....once the 3-4 years of hippy revolution BS was pretty played out, these decades CELEBRATED what a real MAN was SUPPOSED to be. A subtle superhero known as Vintage Man.

The gentleman warrior we hear about. Not the overly sensitive, estro-man with the man tits and paunch of the low testosterone dad-bod generation, or the antithesis seen in the soc-med of the uncooth dressed caveman. But rather the physically powerful, deadly, and cultivated gentleman killer who can recite poetry while satisfying a nymphomaniac, and eliminate a trio of tangoes single handed, all the while plotting the gourmet dinner he plans for the weekend. The same man eloquently described by Kipling in his immortal "IF", or by Heinlein in Time Enough For Love.

Yeah there were a few years were Vintage Man was a little too fashionable with an unbuttoned silk shirt and sweet medallion, and knew a few too many of the latest disco-dance steps...

But he also trained to fight. He carried real weapons he was proficient in. He could wear a Tux. He could fix a motorcycle. He could SCUBA. He could BBQ a steak over real fire. He could drink. He served; in the military, or as a cop or fireman.

Indeed

He didn’t need anyone’s permission.

Vintage Man.

He wasn’t afraid to slide his new T-top Corvette or Porsche 911 Targa or Jaguar XK into a parking spot outside the restaurant by pulling the e-brake.

He would get the door for take his Lady, pull out her chair, and buy her a steak dinner with cash.
He would punch out some long-hair in the bar who made a snide comment about how hot his Lady looked on the dance floor...

Then roar back home blasting Ted Nugent on the 8-track to his king-sized waterbed and make some sweet Whoopie to the soulful sounds of Barry White.

And the next morning his Lady would happily and gratefully make him breakfast, because he’s her MAN.

And she know’s he keep her safe and can bring it. Any time, any place.

Vintage Man.


Yes my friends, there once was a time when masculinity and testosterone and chivalry and the ability to bring measured, controlled violence to any situation wasn’t just celebrated, it was WORSHIPPED.

And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we were the top-dog RULERS of the world when Vintage Man was the guy so many aspired and struggled to be.

And THAT MAN...the concept of that man is what everyman WANTS to be whether they admit it or not. And is who every woman wants in her bed...whether they say so or not.

Thank God for Warrior Talk, it’s members, and the not just the survival but thriving of men should be, are, and will continue to be MEN.


“A roaring adventurer who loves a fight.

A dashing daredevil; unperturbable, debonair, preposterously handsome.
A pirate or philanthropist, as the occasion demands.

He lives for the pursuit excitement...
For the one triumphant moment that is his alone.”


QUITE RIGHT!! Here is to those triumphant moments, may we all have more of them...and to a noble ending that would make a fucking viking jealous


Late-morning, full Moka-Pot rant OVER!

[Air Pirate]

:cheers: I’ll drink to that!

[michael]

VIntage man indeed, cheers!:beer:

[Faramir2]

Well said, sir! Add in a man who knows his Bible, prays in conversation with God every day (morning and evening for me), and loves others—not to be confused with being a pushover, because sometimes love is tough—and you have the kind of man I will raise my sons (if I have any) to be, and the sort I will raise my daughters (if I have any) to watch for.

That's the man I strive to be for my girlfriend (whom I hope to make my wife). Yes. Well said.

[Marco Innocenti]

Gabe: Yes to Clint’s other movies. Josey Wales! “Buzzards got to eat too.” How could I forget GLADIATOR? (My DNA resonates with that one!) And Braveheart? And many, many others throughout the years up to this moment. ALL with the common thread of real men who are not afraid to fight and kill and die in the service of the Greater, Empirical Good!

I watched the very first 3 episodes of Miami Vice over the last couple of nights. Tonight I’ll watch “Calderone’s Return Pt 1.” That’s the episode with Jim Zubiena and his wonderful failure drill from AIWB. This show was my TV inspiration to get into the business and work towards that Detective badge. (Other than my Dad being a cop, as well.) One of the first things I bought when after being sworn in (by my Dad as “Acting Chief for that day, with his old Officer’s badge), was a Galco Miami Classic shoulder rig for my Sig 226. And the reason I picked the colors of my Camaro convertible as Black and Tan was in homage to a certain Ferrari knock-oof Corvette. Still love it. And I will rock some linen Blazers over pastel T-shirts this summer! (Untucked over AIWB. I gave up on shoulder rigs years ago.) Especially in Maui this August.


Capt. Shack: Yes! To the influence of those incredible men of the generations before us, who took us young rookies under their wings and gave us the best of their knowledge and experience, and in so doing the greatest of gifts. How I struggled to impress some of those guys! Since it’s rainy and grey here in Northern California today, I believe I will build a nice fire this evening, pour a not-so-wee-dram of Blue Label, and raise a toast to those Mentors and Heroes who helped build the man I am today.

Faramir: Humblest apologies for forgetting one of Vintage Man’s greatest virtues; hs Judeo-Christian ethics and moral compass. Vintage Man most definitely knows his Bible or Torah (and his Sun Tzu and Musashi) and does his best to live his life as an example of their teachings. The Righteous Killer and Bringer of Just Violence, never the murderer or bully.

And even though he may not attend organized services as regularly as he should, he maintains his relationship with his Creator and Savior through his own means and path. Always thankful for Gifts given to him in Sacrifice, and mostly humble as His Servant.

I was blessed with two daughters, whom I have tried as both ShieldMaidens and Princesses. (As in Xena Warrior Princess!). My 18 year old (from the first marriage) is the quieter, thoughtful, more easy-going one. Straight A’s in college, a wonderful, gentleman-boyfriend, (because of what you stated!) But she can throw solid punches, knows how to drop a head-butt and solid leg kicks, and the basics of working a blade in close.

My 6 year old Girl is another story. Ferocious, stubborn, and loves to fight. We play swords and “Monster Smash” and “wrestling” more than anything else. She’s already tried getting into one of the gun safes. Definitely the one I need to look out for!

[Gabriel Suarez]

Marco -

I still have a Miami Classic for my SIG P226. I may wear that one of these days again.

On the spirituality aspect.

I will submit that men like Samson, David (a man after God's own heart), and Solomon - men who embodied those traits discussed, would likely not be allowed through the doors of most modern socialized churches today and the attendees would be terrified and offended by their mere presence in the parking lot. Too often we use the Apostles as examples of masculinity, but their lot in life at that time prevented them from being the sort of men discussed in the first post.

Why Christ chose them rather than warriors, business leaders, and mover-shakers will be something I will ask at some point...but the humble servant apostle is not what the thread is about, and not what I wish to mold my life after. Perhaps I am not as good a Christian as I should be but it is what it is. I don't feel comfortable in church any more...perhaps because those virtues enumerated earlier are seen as non-essential by the attendees.

While I and many others here are Christians...I submit that a particular faith is not essential to the theme.

I have known men who were Buddhists, Jews, Mormons, one Muslim actually long before 911, and one Odinist (whatever the Norse thing is called) who embodied the elements of the Vintage Man and rejected the Estro-Man ideals of today. So IMHO, faith and spirituality are side issues - which can be helpful is taught and understood properly - but not essential.

[Marco Innocenti]

Marco -

I still have a Miami Classic for my SIG P226. I may wear that one of these days again.

On the spirituality aspect.

I will submit that men like Samson, David (a man after God's own heart), and Solomon - men who embodied those traits discussed, would likely not be allowed through the doors of most modern socialized churches today and the attendees would be terrified and offended by their mere presence in the parking lot. Too often we use the Apostles as examples of masculinity, but their lot in life at that time prevented them from being the sort of men discussed in the first post.

Why Christ chose them rather than warriors, business leaders, and mover-shakers will be something I will ask at some point...but the humble servant apostle is not what the thread is about, and not what I wish to mold my life after. Perhaps I am not as good a Christian as I should be but it is what it is. I don't feel comfortable in church any more...perhaps because those virtues enumerated earlier are seen as non-essential by the attendees.

While I and many others here are Christians...I submit that a particular faith is not essential to the theme.

I have known men who were Buddhists, Jews, Mormons, one Muslim actually long before 911, and one Odinist (whatever the Norse thing is called) who embodied the elements of the Vintage Man and rejected the Estro-Man ideals of today. So IMHO, faith and spirituality are side issues - which can be helpful is taught and understood properly - but not essential.


Well and truly said, Maestro.

Hell, I dated a couple of Wiccan chicks back in the day. Freaky-deaky, but a lot of fun.

I thought Faramir brought up some good points on the basis of our Ethical Code and Moral Compass, but as you eloquently stated specific religious beliefs are not necessarily indicative of those traits we here hold most dear. And the Heroes of those parables would most definitely NOT be welcome in the vast majority of toda’s churches.

And even as survivor of 8 years of Catholic School, (the old-school kind where the Nuns literally slapped, smacked, and even punched a few of us in the mouth on those occasions where we deserved it), personally I’ve always been more of an “Old Testament” kind of guy.

[Papa]

Hamer. Askins. Bryce. Winstead. Skelton. Jordan. Cooper. Keith. Men who saw the elephant (and killed him) or went through great personal trials.

DiMaggio. Gehrig. Williams. Grace under pressure. Arrogant or humble, guys who played hurt and looked good in a suit. Working class heroes.

Warriors in a dozen conflicts over the last four centuries. Too many to name. And warriors I know, some here, and comrades in arms.

Vintage, yes. Vintage isn't about tailfins or black and white movies or sixguns. It's about quality and endurance and trust earned again and again.

It is customary courage and exceptional behavior. And it is prized because it is so rare.

[Forklift]

Amen, this is the type of post I needed today! Something to get my blood pumping..agreed all! :cheers:

[Vlad the Impaler]

Well and truly said, Maestro.

Hell, I dated a couple of Wiccan chicks back in the day. Freaky-deaky, but a lot of fun.

I thought Faramir brought up some good points on the basis of our Ethical Code and Moral Compass, but as you eloquently stated specific religious beliefs are not necessarily indicative of those traits we here hold most dear. And the Heroes of those parables would most definitely NOT be welcome in the vast majority of toda’s churches.

And even as survivor of 8 years of Catholic School, (the old-school kind where the Nuns literally slapped, smacked, and even punched a few of us in the mouth on those occasions where we deserved it), personally I’ve always been more of an “Old Testament” kind of guy.



I'm not a religious man, nor one given to superstition. My instinct is to agnosticism on matters that can't be observed from the material plane. That does not mean that lessons cannot be drawn from religious texts.

One thing that struck me (and Gabe alluded to this in a previous comment) is that when Jesus found disciples there was one rule-they had to walk away from everything else. (Acts 2 44-45 "And all that believed were together, and held all things in common; and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need") As a younger man, I found that to be ridiculous. What kind of man would leave behind his family, friends and business? As I get older, I understand.

When you walk away from all of that, there is nothing your enemies can take away from you except for your life, and that is the most defensible thing that you have.

[KevinT]

Yes to Clint’s other movies. Josey Wales!

My favorite part of that movie, the scene I always come back to, is the conversation between Josey and Ten Bears. That has always resonated with me.

Thanks Marco, great thread.

[Gabriel Suarez]

When you walk away from all of that, there is nothing your enemies can take away from you except for your life, and that is the most defensible thing that you have.

It seems I am destined to disagree today. I am 60 years old...almost. I remember my family losing everything to the communists. I also remember the nightly terrors of the knocks on the door from the secret police...and the memory of standing in Miami Airport holding my father's hand. We had no luggage, and not a fucking dollar to our name.

Since then I have built all of those things that Christian Extremists disdain. I do not have any interest in being a modern day apostle, nor do I need to approval of a pastor...and my charity can be measured every April Fucking Fifteenth. I will not walk away from what we have built for anyone and I will utterly dissect any man (and all his friends and family as well) that tries to take those things from me...legally or otherwise.

And if I die in the process then I die free and sword in hand as a viking for my own objectives.

[Gabriel Suarez]

My favorite part of that movie, the scene I always come back to, is the conversation between Josey and Ten Bears. That has always resonated with me.

Thanks Marco, great thread.


Iron Words

[thewolverine]

Iron words indeed, from Ten Bears. Unlike the conversation earlier with Josey Wales and Lone Watie.. and the sad line, “Endeavor to persevere.”

[glockamolee]

My stepdaughters, in their 30s, and I are much more intimate since my precious wife (their mom died). They both complain about loser men, I mean males, that expect THEM to foot the bill, are cowardly, etc. Since I enjoy their presence more, I've been helping them with this challenge of them vetting suitors. Bottom line, a woman wants a MAN, not a male in skinny jeans.

[Bob F.]

Can't vouch for the veracity: imagine the heyday of coal, all the mines going full blast, coal camps everywhere. Sunday night church service, whispers abound about a little 14 year old girl being raped and threatened by a miner in the community. Momma knew something was wrong and finally got the tearful story from her. The rapist didn't show up for work Monday and was never seen again. Mountain Justice!

[barnetmill]

Can't vouch for the veracity: imagine the heyday of coal, all the mines going full blast, coal camps everywhere. Sunday night church service, whispers abound about a little 14 year old girl being raped and threatened by a miner in the community. Momma knew something was wrong and finally got the tearful story from her. The rapist didn't show up for work Monday and was never seen again. Mountain Justice!

Mountain justice and a Hanging
Shades of Tom Dooley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI1KNWfgF_0

For my favorite movie I like the modern 'Last of the Mohigans'
The cabin scene where they leave the bodies of their friends to lie where they fell; I could not find a clip of it.

One of the many excellent scenes, '
A Run To Fort Edward – The Last of the Mohicans'

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBsq6Cd4Rf0" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBsq6Cd4Rf0

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBsq6Cd4Rf0)Respect of a man for life of an elk he has just taken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9oW0Nk7Dm4

[mrstang01]

It seems I am destined to disagree today. I am 60 years old...almost. I remember my family losing everything to the communists. I also remember the nightly terrors of the knocks on the door from the secret police...and the memory of standing in Miami Airport holding my father's hand. We had no luggage, and not a fucking dollar to our name.

Since then I have built all of those things that Christian Extremists disdain. I do not have any interest in being a modern day apostle, nor do I need to approval of a pastor...and my charity can be measured every April Fucking Fifteenth. I will not walk away from what we have built for anyone and I will utterly dissect any man (and all his friends and family as well) that tries to take those things from me...legally or otherwise.

And if I die in the process then I die free and sword in hand as a viking for my own objectives.


Love it sir, and been living it since I first heard you tell that story many years ago here on WT. Thank you for your guidance!.

[Greg Nichols]

I've paid the Iron Price with no regrets and I've always said that if you can't throw your lady over your shoulder and walk up a flight of stairs, she's too fat, you're too weak, or both.

Vintage man