Security for remote property

[IANative]

I have a second home in another state, located on 60 acres in one of the least populous counties in the state. For the last 15 years, it's been largely a hunting/fishing/shooting property, but we've recently begun renovations in anticipation of retiring there in about 5 years. The renovations include complete updating and modernization of the house, and some comparable upgrades to the metal building/barn. With the valuation increase of the buildings and their contents within, I want to add a security system to help protect our investment. I'd like to ask The Tribe for opinions on the best course of action. I'm aware of the following:

1. Traditional monitored system like ADT, Brinks, or AT&T Digital Life, professionally-installed and monitored, and optionally including other smart features for the home. (These are the only systems I've ever used, and those have been in suburban settings.)
2. Self-install version of the above from companies like SimpliSafe, not sure about their monitoring or other smart features.
3. Newer camera/doorbell-based systems that alert you via smart phone, like Ring and/or its competitors.

Some notables:

1. I currently live 4 hours away from the property in question.
2. As I mentioned, this is a rather sparsely populated area, with the only responding law enforcement being the county sherriff's department, so response time could vary from a few minutes to considerably longer.
3. Local, volunteer fire department located 2 miles away.
4. I would like to alarm both the house and metal building. The two structures are separated by approximately 30-40 feet.
5. Despite its isolation, I do have reliable high-speed internet via fiber to the house.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions...

[Jsavik]

I’ve had good luck with SimpliSafe. I have my house, a garage, and the shop all hooked up. If you have good Internet, (I don’t) you can get cameras also. May want to also consider the cuddle back game camera system if you want to monitor traffic around the property.

[Greg Nichols]

Look at the Ring systems. They feed the video of the property to your phone and you can call LEO if you see something dodgey.

[Allen]

Ring is decent, but Amazon does have access to, and share locations of cameras with LE. I believe that LE do have to manually request footage from you however.

If you want to setup wifi in both buildings as well as cameras, I'm a huge fan of https://www.ui.com/products/ (https://www.ui.com/products/#default) hardware and have done two sites with it. You can setup their systems to backup offsite fairly easily to something like backblaze/AWS/GCP/A computer w/ enough storage at your current residence if you're worried about someone jacking the box, or fire.

[Ragsbo]

How well do you know your neighbors and can you count on them to help out?

[IANative]

How well do you know your neighbors and can you count on them to help out?


Closest neighbor is 1/4 mile away (mailbox to mailbox, house to house is farther), and only know them well enough to wave.

[Ragsbo]

Closest neighbor is 1/4 mile away (mailbox to mailbox, house to house is farther), and only know them well enough to wave.


I was going to suggest recruiting their help in watching the place. That is what we do around here. It would take the one deputy on duty about 20 to 30 minutes to get out here if they hurry.

[45Smashemflat]

Regardless of what system you install, post signs that property is under recorded video surveillance. If road access is relatively limited, consider camera coverage for both front and rear of likely avenues of vehicular approach.

Depending on budget, systems exist that record, and decode, tag numbers, saving them to text files.

Go cellular connection if you can, harder to "cut."

[62-10]

As a general rule I would not trust any Wifi security alarm system. They are subject to jamming. That said, I have no objection to wireless sensors as part of a bonefide intrusion alarm system (hard wired alarm panel & at least 1 hard wired keypad). I suggest cell signal transmission to a monitoring center instead of relying on a self-monitored system.

Remote access cameras are great to have & with reasonable security I would trust a Wifi camera system in conjunction with (not as a replacement for) a monitored intrusion system.

BLINK XT cameras are inexpensive & can be effective to remotely check visuals and push self-monitored notifications; they will also force you to spend some time and attention to optimize your WIFI. That is a MUST with any BLINK system.

Personally I would avoid any web based locks (certainly do not use Wifi locks) & go old school quality lock & key, backed up with a monitored intrusion alarm & exterior remote access camera system.

[Ragsbo]

You might consider a hard gate on the driveway. Keep folks from driving up to buildings easily. A good fence helps too

[apamburn]

As a general rule I would not trust any Wifi security alarm system. They are subject to jamming. That said, I have no objection to wireless sensors as part of a bonefide intrusion alarm system (hard wired alarm panel & at least 1 hard wired keypad). I suggest cell signal transmission to a monitoring center instead of relying on a self-monitored system.

Remote access cameras are great to have & with reasonable security I would trust a Wifi camera system in conjunction with (not as a replacement for) a monitored intrusion system.

BLINK XT cameras are inexpensive & can be effective to remotely check visuals and push self-monitored notifications; they will also force you to spend some time and attention to optimize your WIFI. That is a MUST with any BLINK system.

Personally I would avoid any web based locks (certainly do not use Wifi locks) & go old school quality lock & key, backed up with a monitored intrusion alarm & exterior remote access camera system.

I'm a software engineer and I agree with concerns on wireless device security, however I strongly disagree with the sentiment that old school locks are better.

What is more likely? That the person breaking into your residence has a firm grounding in web communication protocols (and potentially packets being sent through a VPN tunnel), and the tools and know how to compromise them?

Or that they know how to pick a lock?

It is more likely that they will know how to defeat pins and a tumbler. It's even more likely that they use a boot or crow bar, and neither type of lock will be of much use in that case.

We have to weigh risk with benefit, of course, and I think unless you have MI6 after you, the convenience of smart locks outweighs the risks.

That changes for other targets, but that's how I see residential security.

And to the Op's question I think ADT or simplisafe would work. Monitoring counts here since you are not on site so don't skimp.

[LawDog]

I echo the recommendation for a hard gate, as well as some other mild barriers and signage. The best deterrence is psychological rather than physical. Anyone who is truly motivated can get in and out before a police response. That’s a reality you just have to accept. But burglars follow a somewhat predictable psychological process. They like a gentle approach with plausible deniability. Virtually every residential burglary begins with a knock on the door. They want to check everything out before reaching the point of no return. With a hard gate and any kind of fence, you deprive them of the ability to pretend they are approaching for legitimate purposes. Salesmen and Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t going to cross a locked gate and fence with a ‘no trespassing’ sign. That forces a would-be burglar to commit to the deed before he’s done his recon. That’s frightening to a burglar. He knows he’s exposed and without excuse during the entire walk up to the house.

[Papa]

I echo the recommendation for a hard gate, as well as some other mild barriers and signage. The best deterrence is psychological rather than physical. Anyone who is truly motivated can get in and out before a police response. That’s a reality you just have to accept. But burglars follow a somewhat predictable psychological process. They like a gentle approach with plausible deniability. Virtually every residential burglary begins with a knock on the door. They want to check everything out before reaching the point of no return. With a hard gate and any kind of fence, you deprive them of the ability to pretend they are approaching for legitimate purposes. Salesmen and Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t going to cross a locked gate and fence with a ‘no trespassing’ sign. That forces a would-be burglar to commit to the deed before he’s done his recon. That’s frightening to a burglar. He knows he’s exposed and without excuse during the entire walk up to the house.

Yeah, hard to claim you're a Kirby vacuum cleaner salesman when you've busted through the front gate, past the signs.

[Bill Bond]

......I have a large set of trail cameras capture trespass issues away from the building. I have to go to each camera to pull the data but that is ok. I recommend getting in the habit of walking the entire property regularly. You will be surprised how many neighbors stop making use of it when they realize it is actively patrolled. They will see you there for a few mins with a laptop working on something. You will also capture issues like trees falling down etc. etc. Pro tip. if you find a problem put a very obvious but cheap trail camera on it then a hidden trail camera covering that camera......

That is very similar to what I do. It is funny to see the reaction of people when they notice a camera.

For instance there was a neighbor that came highly recommended, that I was paying with things I no longer needed like,
various gun parts, knives, flashlights, ammo, etc. to check on the place a couple of times a week.
After a short time he told me he was checking it every day since he was so happy with what I was giving him.

Well I had put up a couple of camera to watch the wildlife, and I noticed that he only checked the place on Thursdays.
I figured it was better than nothing, so I did not say anything.
This went on for about a year, before he noticed one of the cameras. The look on his face was priceless.

[TwoBodyOneHead]

The look on his face was priceless.

It's an interesting study in human behavior in what people do when they are watched and when they are not.

I had one trespasser who scoped the cameras he could see from the property line then hit them with a flashlight. I learned the camera on a camera trick with him plus to just move them around a bit.

[62-10]

I'm a software engineer and I agree with concerns on wireless device security, however I strongly disagree with the sentiment that old school locks are better.

What is more likely? That the person breaking into your residence has a firm grounding in web communication protocols (and potentially packets being sent through a VPN tunnel), and the tools and know how to compromise them?

Or that they know how to pick a lock?

It is more likely that they will know how to defeat pins and a tumbler. It's even more likely that they use a boot or crow bar, and neither type of lock will be of much use in that case.

We have to weigh risk with benefit, of course, and I think unless you have MI6 after you, the convenience of smart locks outweighs the risks.

That changes for other targets, but that's how I see residential security.

And to the Op's question I think ADT or simplisafe would work. Monitoring counts here since you are not on site so don't skimp.

MI6? Not my concern.

In my AO, property predators dont pick locks, they bypass them, force doors/windows, spread jams, or attempt to force bolts if the strike plates are not properly installed, &/or smash glass.

All of the above said, IMO the primary utility of locks is really to keep honest people honest. Personally, as a general rule, I would not trust a lock with the word "smart" in the name for a remote residential apllication.

[kabar]

Security systems are useful, but my thought is a caretaker onsite along with a couple of large dogs would be a lot better. Know any retirees who would like a free place to park their RV?

[apamburn]

MI6? Not my concern.

In my AO, property predators dont pick locks, they bypass them, force doors/windows, spread jams, or attempt to force bolts if the strike plates are not properly installed, &/or smash glass.

All of the above said, IMO the primary utility of locks is really to keep honest people honest. Personally, as a general rule, I would not trust a lock with the word "smart" in the name for a remote residential apllication.

Ummm....ok?

My point still stands, which is that a smart lock is no less secure than a traditional lock because the likelihood of a crook having the skill or tools to compromise it is low, and it can't be picked (or if it can, it's still just on par with a regular lock), and that both are equally succeptible to brute Force which is more likely anyways. So you might as well go with the one that is more convenient.

I agree about locks only keeping the honest out, but if you have a remote location I would definitely want smart locks that will report their locking status to me, alert me if unlocked, and allow me to issue one-time use or expiring access codes to individuals with the need for short term access to my property - like neighbors or cleaning people or what have you.

With a regular lock you have to issue a key to someone, and you have to also trust them not to copy it, and to ensure that no bad actor might obtain and copy the key.

[62-10]

...My point still stands, which is that a smart lock is no less secure than a traditional lock...


So which smart locks would you suggest for the OP?

[apamburn]

So which smart locks would you suggest for the OP?


Thought I mentioned above, sorry. I use a Yale model that integrates with my ADT system. It (the ADT system) uses geofencing tech to automatically lock and arm if we get far enough from home, and we could configure it to automatically unlock / disarm if we get close enough (we don't). My system gives me notifications when the lock changes state and has a key code configured. It also allows me to specify additional temporary key codes.

I believe the ADT system is just rebranded honeywell hardware with a third party (maybe alarm dot com?) alarm interface / integration application.

Much of the above-described functionality is probably due to the system as a whole and not directly attributable to that specific smart lock brand, though it wouldn't be possible without the smart lock hardware.

I would have to suggest using smart locks as part of a broader security system.

[michael]

Nest is a solid alternative to Ring without the privacy concerns.

[H60DoorGunner]

Security of a rural property needs to be almost entirely dependent upon physical barriers or concealment, psychological barriers, and a tight knit community.

All monitored security systems rely upon reliable internet. Which cannot be counted on in a rural area due to inclement weather or other natural happenstance like an old fallen tree. Installing one is a fine idea, but it can't always be counted on, and probably will suffer multiple outages during the course of a normal year.

As others have said, gates, fences, and physical barriers are your best bet. Following that, reinforced doors, laminated glass, and things like that.

Your primary means of security needs to be your neighbors. Be friendly with them, get to know them, do favors for them, etc. Theyll likely respond much more quickly than the sheriff ever will, and will likely monitor your property for free while you're not around.

EDIT: As an example, we had a neighbor once when I was a kid, who blocked in a suspected intruder in his truck, and held him at gunpoint until the sheriff arrived. ADT can't do that for you.

[62-10]

Security of a rural property needs to be almost entirely dependent upon physical barriers or concealment, psychological barriers, and a tight knit community.

All monitored security systems rely upon reliable internet. Which cannot be counted on in a rural area due to inclement weather or other natural happenstance like an old fallen tree. Installing one is a fine idea, but it can't always be counted on, and probably will suffer multiple outages during the course of a normal year.

As others have said, gates, fences, and physical barriers are your best bet...

Alarm notification, regardless of source, is only as good as response & intervention capability. The comment about all monitored alarm systems relying on internet is just wrong, though.

[H60DoorGunner]

Alarm notification, regardless of source, is only as good as response & intervention capability. The comment about all monitored alarm systems relying on internet is just wrong, though.

How are home alarm systems monitored?

Through a landline? Guess what, that's VoIP these days... internet.

If you're installing a new alarm system in your home and don't still have the original land line installed and operating in your home, your system will be monitored via an internet connection.

[Allen]

How are home alarm systems monitored?

Through a landline? Guess what, that's VoIP these days... internet.

If you're installing a new alarm system in your home and don't still have the original land line installed and operating in your home, your system will be monitored via an internet connection.

And if you're worried about that:
1) they can monitor for disconnect (actually easier with internet protocol)
2) you can use a 3G data only backup

[H60DoorGunner]

And if you're worried about that:
1) they can monitor for disconnect (actually easier with internet protocol)
2) you can use a 3G data only backup

Those are indeed options.

I'm not worried about it though, I'm just pointing out the realities here.

Letting me know that the alarm on my home, which is 30 miles from the nearest town (that has one stop light and no Walmart), is out, while I'm in... say, Florida, does me absolutely no good. Except that when I come back from vacation, the shock factor of having all my stuff stolen won't be as bad I guess.

As far as cell service, its spotty out here too.

All of that is fine with me. To an extent, it's why I moved out here. Nonetheless, I need to secure my property. I rely on gates, fences, terrain, and neighbors. Depending on how rural one is, those might be the best or only options.