Uproar after research claims red meat poses no health risk

[stankasz1]

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/sep/30/research-red-meat-poses-no-health-risk

[Gabriel Suarez]

How about a synopsis of the article so we do not drive people away from WT?

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[SheepDog68]

How about a synopsis of the article so we do not drive people away from WT?

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Customer feedback on above:

I hit this forum (and a few others) as a quick way to find out anything important (or interesting) going on in the world! Rather than driving me away I’m here (among other reasons) to be able to quickly see if anything needs to be looked at closer or has popped off while I was busy doing something else!

Yes too many pig paths will water down what we do here and I can depend on you to keep the focus on task, but within this focal range I can quickly get a valuable snapshot and decide if I need to dedicate time in this spectrum today or not!

I would be here irregardless because the subject matter interest me, but because of the above (and do to changes in another forum) I hit WarriorTalk first thing in the morning to get that snapshot.

Because of the above usage I’m here more often than I’d likely be otherwise!

SD

[TangoFoxtrot]

Original Annals of Internal Medicine Article
https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2752328/unprocessed-red-meat-processed-meat-consumption-dietary-guideline-recommendations-from

PDF of article with nice charts included
http://www.dssimon.com/MM/ACP-red-meat/Red_Meat_Clinical_Guideline_Unprocessed_Red_Meat_a nd_Processed_Meat_Consumption.pdf

Synopsis: After reviewing multiple past studies of meat consumption, this panel of experts concludes that eating meat is not bad for you.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Gents....I am going to be an asshole about this. If you post a link only, I will delete it.

Post a link and then a cut n paste synopsis of the article FROM the article. Failing that, I would raher you didn't even include the link. Below is an example of what is appropriate here.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Uproar after research claims red meat poses no health risk (https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/sep/30/research-red-meat-poses-no-health-risk)New research that claims red and processed meat is probably not harmful to our health has caused controversy among experts who maintain people should cut down.
The World Health (https://www.theguardian.com/society/health) Organization has classified red and processed meats as cancer-causing. Public health bodies worldwide urge people to limit their intake of red and processed meat to reduce their cancer risk. The NHS advises that people who eat 90g of meat a day – equivalent to three thin slices of roast meat – should cut down to 70g.


ANYTHING LESS IS LAZY, DRIVES MEMBERS AWAY TO OTHER SITES, AND WILL BE SUMMARILY DELETED

[Johnny C!]

I don't think God would have put red meat & so many
chickens on this planet, if he didn't want us to eat it,
but I am sure the steroids are whats killing us, among
other things.

[Gabriel Suarez]

My diet yesterday -

Breakfast - 1/4 pound grassfed burger, grilled in duckfat, with a handful of sweet potato slices and a fistfull of sauerkraut.

Lunch - 1/3 pound of bison with five strips of organic bacon and a green salad with olive oil and apple cider vinegar.

Dinner - 1/4 pound grassfed steak with a green salad and some plantains.

So I eat about a pound of meat per day. I source it grass fed, and I give no shits about what some estrogenized rabbitman might think of my footprint. If he makes to much noise, my carbon footprint will be right on his neck.

[stankasz1]

understood. trust me, it won't happen again

[mike135]

If you aren't tuned into the rapidly growing carnivore movement, I'm finding it fascinating. It's causing me to question everything I've been told my whole life about how vegetables=healthy. That's not to say that all vegetables are bad, but the huge emphasis on them in the nutrition world may be very much unsupported and/or unverified in the research. If you want to dig into it, there are a few doctors who are leaders in social media--Shawn Baker (the guy behind meatheals.com), Paul Saladino, and Ken Berry are three that I follow. Go listen to some of their interviews on various podcasts on YouTube. It will open your eyes to just how much the experts think they know isn't really known with great certainty, and this latest news is just another piece of the puzzle.

[apamburn]

Gabe how do you eat your plantains? We like them boiled or fried

[Gabriel Suarez]

On the Carnivore thing. It is a hell of a better way to eat than veganism, or junkfoodism, but I would not jump into it without research. Eating right and well takes effort and is not cheap. Thus lazy and cheapskate americans won't be successful in it by eating field stripped BigMacs. You need to supply the meat from grass fed and organic sources, otherwise its just another poison.

As well...I would not write off greens and some fruit. They should not be the focus of the plate, but need a place on it. There are nutrients and minerals evident in greens and fruit that you cannot get elsewhere.

The focus on vegetables and grains began with the silly political "War On Hunger" and "War on Poverty" movements of the late fifties and early sixties with names like McGovern and Keyes as their vanguards. Until then, meat was the staple of the American diet, but when they realized that they would not be able to afford feeding the masses with steak, bacon, and chicken, they reworked the tables to fill bellies with whatever they could afford. What resulted was US Gov subsidies on Corn, Wheat, and Soy. And all the gov education programs focused on promoting that which they were invested in. All of that is historical fact.

The other fact is that humans are designed to function on meat, not fruits and not grains. Those who debate this have simply not done their studies. But diet, like politics and religion has become a faith system in the USA.

[Faramir2]

I must be on my way to the grave, with my post-workout early dinner of kielbasa and diced sweet potatoes, fried up in bacon grease, over a plate of organic mixed greens, supplemented with Bulgarian yogurt mixed with honey, blackberries, and raspberries.

If that's true, I'd say death tastes (and feels) pretty dang good.

[RayMich]

"If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of MEAT!" :yup:

[Mushinto]

Good article.

Synopsys: Meat good.

I knew it all along.

--ML

[Gabriel Suarez]

I must be on my way to the grave, with my post-workout early dinner of kielbasa and diced sweet potatoes, fried up in bacon grease, over a plate of organic mixed greens, supplemented with Bulgarian yogurt mixed with honey, blackberries, and raspberries.

If that's true, I'd say death tastes (and feels) pretty dang good.

If we are on the way to the grave it will be with a body like a Roman breastplate and a hard on that all those dad bod wives will dream about.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Plantains...sorry. When I can find them here, beyond the wall, I slice them and fry them in EVOO. I pull them from the pan and throw them onto a paper towel, salt the hell out of them and let them cool.

[Faramir2]

If we are on the way to the grave it will be with a body like a Roman breastplate and a hard on that all those dad bod wives will dream about.

Exactly how I plan to go.

[apamburn]

Plantains...sorry. When I can find them here, beyond the wall, I slice them and fry them in EVOO. I pull them from the pan and throw them onto a paper towel, salt the hell out of them and let them cool.

Not far from how I eat them. We smash them first though to make them thin.

[mike135]

On the Carnivore thing. It is a hell of a better way to eat than veganism, or junkfoodism, but I would not jump into it without research. Eating right and well takes effort and is not cheap. Thus lazy and cheapskate americans won't be successful in it by eating field stripped BigMacs. You need to supply the meat from grass fed and organic sources, otherwise its just another poison.

As well...I would not write off greens and some fruit. They should not be the focus of the plate, but need a place on it. There are nutrients and minerals evident in greens and fruit that you cannot get elsewhere.

The focus on vegetables and grains began with the silly political "War On Hunger" and "War on Poverty" movements of the late fifties and early sixties with names like McGovern and Keyes as their vanguards. Until then, meat was the staple of the American diet, but when they realized that they would not be able to afford feeding the masses with steak, bacon, and chicken, they reworked the tables to fill bellies with whatever they could afford. What resulted was US Gov subsidies on Corn, Wheat, and Soy. And all the gov education programs focused on promoting that which they were invested in. All of that is historical fact.

The other fact is that humans are designed to function on meat, not fruits and not grains. Those who debate this have simply not done their studies. But diet, like politics and religion has become a faith system in the USA.

Yeah, I'm not ready to say that nobody should eat any vegetables or fruit, but it's fascinating to hear so many stories of people who eliminated major ongoing health issues by going that route. My working theory is that at some point the body is so abused that it needs a vacation from anything that challenges the digestive system before it can work on repair and recovery. Obviously not everybody is in that condition, but for those who are it's worth exploring. For me, the biggest takeaway is how all the research that fuels the vegan movement and the standard view in the medical world that "vegetables=health/long life" is actually very unreliable and easily picked apart. That also includes the surprisingly small body of research that produced the official recommended daily amounts of everything that we see on all labels. Also, they are challenging the entire "fiber is good" dogma we find everywhere.

My current recommendation (besides the obvious need to avoid most carbs) is to not eat a lot of anything that is more difficult to digest. There is a good argument that includes most raw vegetables.

[P.D.]

Mike135, while you hear numerous people bragging that they have resolved health issues by going vegan/vegetarian, you don't hear from those who have tried it with no success. The point here is that people advertise success, but rarely, if ever, failure.

Then, one must ask how much of the "success" is placebo effect.

[Gunstore Commando]

Mike135, while you hear numerous people bragging that they have resolved health issues by going vegan/vegetarian, you don't hear from those who have tried it with no success. The point here is that people advertise success, but rarely, if ever, failure.

Then, one must ask how much of the "success" is placebo effect.

I'm guessing that it's mostly because they were overweight to begin with. Unless you're eating cookies and crap like that it's pretty hard to maintain a caloric surplus on a vegetarian, let alone vegan, diet. So they lose a little weight and they start feeling good. And it's not until later on that they start having troubles because they're not getting enough protein and B12 and this and that and the other thing...

The ones who are pushing this vegatarian stuff on people are condemning them, especially the females, to an early grave.

[Gabriel Suarez]

There are exceptions to everything...outliers if you will...but in the time I have been following this study I have yet to personally meet any strong and muscular vegans. Met alot of fat vegans and a lot of frail vegans...but a vegan whose body looks like a Roman breastplate? Never.

[Gabriel Suarez]

Funny how diets become a religion. It should all be based on scientifically based results not on philosophy or theory.

[IANative]

It should all be based on scientifically based results not on philosophy or theory.

You just debunked nearly all of the Liberal/Progressive ideology with that statement.

[BillyOblivion]

I'm guessing that it's mostly because they were overweight to begin with. Unless you're eating cookies and crap like that it's pretty hard to maintain a caloric surplus on a vegetarian, let alone vegan, diet. So they lose a little weight and they start feeling good. And it's not until later on that they start having troubles because they're not getting enough protein and B12 and this and that and the other thing...

The ones who are pushing this vegatarian stuff on people are condemning them, especially the females, to an early grave.

Nah, it's trivial to maintain a caloric surplus on a Vegetarian/Vegan diet--almost every vegetarian I know is borderline overweight to obese. Most eat a lot of rice, bread, etc. Most of the vegans are either pale, unhealthy wrecks or also overweight. I know ONE--who has a masters degree in biochemistry and works in the pharma/nutraceutical industry most of the time--who is healthy. Of course he's nearly obsessive about his eating, getting blood work done etc. And he exercises a lot.

The thing is that people generally do *feel* better when they switch to a Vegetarian diet. Or to a Vegan diet.

Or, oddly enough, from one of those to a diet containing meat (those few who can admit to falling away from the faith).

Just like people "feel great" and are "full of energy" after they start working out...for about a month. Then they stop.

It's not the diet, it's not the exercise that makes them feel better, it's that they are *doing something* about their life. They are taking control. THAT is what they are feeling.

It's sort of a solopistic Hawthorne Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect workers productivity increased when lights are turned up. Or turned down. Or when any change happens while being watched).

Oh, and most Vegetarians eat a lot more meat than they admit to.